SFGiants58

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SFGiants58 last won the day on November 16 2018

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  1. SFGiants58

    NFL Playoffs Thread

    You are, after all, the Bobby Fakkin’ Orr, of your gross chowder horr-or.
  2. SFGiants58

    Braves to Show Off “Refreshed” Uniforms This Weekend

    So yeah, aside from the alternates, the uniforms are nominally the same. Expected worse, hoped for better, all in all OK.
  3. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - San Diego Reds Added

    Thanks, guys! @HereComesThax, just outline the colors you want and I can put it together! Let's just say it's surprising. SAN DIEGO REDS - Red-dy for adaptation Yes, you heard that right. The team that has long prided itself on playing in the origin city of professional baseball considered following the Giants and Dodgers’ lead in moving out west. But what could have caused such a surprising threat? Crosley Field didn’t adapt well to the rise of the automobile and the suburbs during the 1950s and ‘60s. The city demolished many buildings in the area to make parking lots, but these efforts were offset by the construction of Interstate 75 right next to the stadium.1 Look at what the highway did to the place (before and after): These issues decreased attendance, which prompted owner Bill DeWitt to consider moving the team in 1964/65. The most obvious place they would have moved was San Diego, where they had an affiliation with the PCL Padres. Of course, the Rosie Reds fan club helped to drum up local support and the city announced plans to construct Riverfront Stadium for both the Reds and the AFL Bengals. While it was totally a case of stadium blackmail, not many venues would do well with an interstate blasting its way through their neighborhood.2 But what if Bill DeWitt made good on his threat? What if the Reds played the 1966 season in Westgate Park (more info with my San Diego Athletics post), before moving to The Murph and Petco? The first thing to go is the old-timey branding. In San Diego, the team would have an even smaller connection to the 1869 Red Stockings. They wouldn’t adopt the Brandiose-styles woodcut font, nor would they use the 19th-century Mr. Red. Instead, they have a slab-serif block (like the 1991-2003 Padres' road uniforms) and a hybrid of the modern Mr. Red and the 1968-2006 variations of Mr. Redlegs. The “C-REDS” logo becomes “SD-REDS,” with a wishbone styled “S” and “D.” Also, a big thanks goes to @MJD7 for the consult/city pride idea. The uniforms are a mix of two of my Project 32 Reds uniforms. They have the striping/white outlines of the first and the UNC-based number font of the second. The new Mr. Red is on the sleeves. The first alternate is a 1960s-style vest (with navy accents) and the second is a “city pride” set that adds yellow accents (a la the San Diego city flag). This one also has a 1954-66/1991-2003/2016 “White S, accent color D” arrangement. The jackets use my script from the PCL Padres’ outerwear. The second has navy accents. The Reds could have adapted their look pretty well for San Diego. It would have been awful to lose baseball in the home of the 1869 Red Stockings or see the Big Red Machine lose some of what made them special (turf speed), but the team would still be good-looking. Also, realignment/competitive downturn wouldn’t kill the Reds-Dodgers rivalry! C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, we’ve got another 1960s relocation attempt, one that may be a bit more radical. 1 “Crosley Field - History, Photos and More of the Cincinnati Reds Former Ballpark,” Ballparks of Baseball - Your Guide to Major League Baseball Stadiums (blog), accessed January 18, 2019, https://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/ballparks/crosley-field/; “Parks of the Past: Crosley Field, Cincinnati,” reddit, accessed January 18, 2019, https://www.reddit.com/r/baseball/comments/1rzqqx/parks_of_the_past_crosley_field_cincinnati/. 2 John Erardi, “Rosie Reds to Be Honored with Hall of Fame Exhibit,” Cincinnati.com, July 24, 2014, https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb/reds/2014/07/24/rosie-reds-honored-hall-fame-exhibit/13138111/; Scott Ferkovich, “Westgate Park (San Diego) | Society for American Baseball Research,” SABR - Society for American Baseball Research, accessed January 18, 2019, https://sabr.org/node/27047; Rosie Reds Inc., “History of the Rosie Reds,” Rosie Reds, 2015, https://rosiereds.org/history/; “1965 San Diego Padres Statistics,” Baseball-Reference.com, accessed January 18, 2019, https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/team.cgi; “Cincinnati Reds Minor League Affiliates,” Baseball-Reference.com, accessed January 18, 2019, https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/affiliate.cgi?id=CIN; “Riverfront Stadium - History, Photos and More of the Cincinnati Reds Former Ballpark,” Ballparks of Baseball - Your Guide to Major League Baseball Stadiums (blog), accessed January 18, 2019, https://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/ballparks/riverfront-stadium//
  4. SFGiants58

    Braves to Show Off “Refreshed” Uniforms This Weekend

    It looks like it’s only the red jersey that’s getting tweaked. Homes are unchanged.
  5. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - San Diego Reds Added

    It's compilation time! The teams that nearly moved without a renaming: Tampa Bay Pirates, Tampa Bay Athletics, Florida White Sox, Tampa Bay Mariners, and Tampa Bay Giants - The Recreations/Traditional font updated/Floridian cursive. The teams that would have renamed: Tampa Bay Tarpons (ex-Minnesota Twins & Washington Sens/Nats). Tampa Bay Twins/Tarpons variants, and Tampa Bay Cannons (ex-Texas Rangers/Washington Senators). The 1993 expansion teams: Florida Panthers/Forest Green/Creamsicle Recolor and Florida/Tampa Bay Whitecaps - Seren Script with a triple blue palette The Rays variants: the 1998 Sting Rays, Tampa Bay Stingrays, and Tampa Bay Rays "of Light." Now, to close us out, this is a song that sums up Tampa Bay's relationship with Major League Baseball during the speculation period. Up next, we finally leave Tampa Bay and head back to the 1960s.
  6. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - San Diego Reds Added

    Thanks! It's been fun exploring my team's history and how it relates to their aesthetic style. Thank you! Thanks! Assembling these different Giants concepts was a fascinating look into my favorite team's aesthetic conventions and how their setting changes it. I do like the San Francisco ones the best, with New York and Minnesota concepts right behind them. Thank you so much! Don't worry, that rainbow isn't going anywhere! Sure, once I'm done with them. We've got San José and Portland as well! Let's hope my laptop's RAM can handle it. Thanks! That brings them a little close to the Orioles, but I could see the team striking a balance between the current Giants and the Orioles. Maybe a creamsicle orange would improve the differentiation? Still, the near-relocation to Tampa Bay prompted one of my favorite quotes from the research. This except from Blaine Newnham's August 11, 1992 column in The Seattle Times ("If Move OK’d, It’s a Giant Mistake") reads: The last statement may be slightly accurate, but the first has pretty much been laughable for the past 20-25 years. Imagine saying this any time after the signing of Barry Bonds, the opening of privately-funded Willie Mays Park, or the three-in-five. We’re wrapping it up today, with a little look into what could have been for the 1998 AL expansion team! TAMPA BAY STINGRAYS - Putting the sting into The Trop After the rejection of the bid to buy the Giants, Naimoli & Co. got litigious. A $3.5 billion lawsuit against baseball’s antitrust exemption proved to be enough of a credible threat to get expansion rolling in 1995. Tampa Bay would finally have a team, with Naimoli at the helm. One of his original naming plans was Sting Rays, but he wouldn’t pay $100,000 to a Hawaiian league team for the rights. This, of course, led to the Devil Rays name (with the "Manta Rays" phone poll), which in turn prompted the “ray of light” rebranding.2 However, what if Naimoli wasn’t such a cheapskate (unlikely), and paid for the Stingrays name? I assumed that he would still want the gradient design, for both period appeal and selling many different colors of apparel. The only element that would really change is the image of the ray, as a stingray and a devil ray are markedly different creatures. I kept the aesthetic style, making the normally placid stingray (puppies of the sea) look agitated. There are two renderings here, one for the alternate cap and one for everything else (based on this reference image).3 The shape of the stingray forced some adjustments to its placement on the cap and wordmarks, as it doesn’t cover the same space as the devil ray. I figured that these placements would be logical, showing most of the skate without obscuring the text. While the black jersey is largely unchanged from the 1998 version, I overhauled the TATC jersey to really embrace the gradient. The jacket really gets into the gradient theme now, with the pattern on the sleeves. With the Stingrays (or Sting Rays), the AL Tampa Bay team may not have needed such a radical rebrand in 2008. Heck, maybe they could wear something like this: C+C is appreciated, as always! Now, it’s time for the wrap-up. After all of this hullabaloo, what happened? Naimoli received the Rays, proceededing to run them as poorly/cheaply as possible, turning away potential fans. He eventually sold the team to Stu Sternberg, leading the Rays towards competitive success. However, this sale also started their current mess of looking for a new stadium due to The Trop/Florida Suncoast Dome’s significant issues. All in all, St. Petersburg built a poorly-designed stadium in the worst possible location, while also gaining a cheapskate initial owner. This was after about a decade of fighting between Tampa and St. Petersburg to get a team via relocation or expansion. This period featured near misses, double crosses, and faith in the wrong people (e.g., Steve Porter and Sidney Kohl, a variety of MLB owners and leaders, and Frank Morsani’s investors). The potential fans in Tampa Bay got repeatedly pummeled by these problems. They saw how baseball’s leadership could never be trusted and that their chances for a team could go away as quickly as they appeared. This mistrust is hard to disassemble. Morsani (whose $100 million lawsuit recieved an undisclosed settlement in 2003) described it like this, I wonder how many people share this perspective. The speculation period’s effect was a net negative for the market. Major League Baseball, St. Petersburg city officials, and Vince Naimoli, both knowingly and unknowingly, crippled baseball’s viability in Tampa Bay before a team could even take the field. I really wish ESPN would do a 30 for 30 on this ordeal. Heck, any kind of documentary would be welcome. It’s a fascinating period in the history of the game, one that Portland, Montréal, and Las Vegas might be in the middle of imitating. Never build a taxpayer-funded stadium (especially one people didn’t vote for) on speculation. You’ll only be disappointed. 1 Blaine Newnham, “If Move OK’d, It’s a Giant Mistake,” The Seattle Times, August 11, 1992, sec. Sports. 2 Bob Andelman and Lori Parsells, Stadium For Rent: Tampa Bay’s Quest for Major League Baseball, 2nd edition (St. Petersburg, FL: CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform, 2015), xvi–xviii, 396–97; Mark Woods, “The Name Stays. It’s the Devil Rays.,” USA Today, April 3, 1995, https://infoweb.newsbank.com/apps/news/document-view?p=NewsBank&t=&sort=YMD_date%3AD&fld-base-0=alltext&maxresults=20&val-base-0="manta rays" naimoli&docref=news/127E86B551BEE478; Jonah Keri, “The Devil In Tampa: Remembering The Penny-Pinching, Snack-Policing, Nut-Cutting Days Of Vince Naimoli,” Deadspin, March 9, 2011, http://web.archive.org/web/20170304040037/https://deadspin.com/5779887/the-devil-in-tampa-remembering-the-penny-pinching-snack-policing-nut-cutting-days-of-vince-naimoli. 3 Istock-184948807.Jpg (618×410),” accessed January 17, 2019, https://thenypost.files.wordpress.com/2018/11/istock-184948807.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&w=618&h=410&crop=1. 4 Andelman and Parsells, Stadium For Rent, 396; AP, “Tampa Investors Settle with MLB,” Sarasota Herald, September 27, 2003, sec. Sports, https://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20030927/News/605227064; Frank Morsani and Dave Scheiber, To Be Frank: Building the American Dream in Business and Life (Tampa, FL: BlackWood Books, 2015), 179.
  7. SFGiants58

    North American Pro Soccer 2019

    “I bet you can’t beat my all-time record keg stand time! I only had to get my stomach pumped once while doing it.” TKE chants ring off in the background, while a freshman pukes all over the pool table.
  8. SFGiants58

    Braves to Show Off “Refreshed” Uniforms This Weekend

    I wouldn’t mind them flipping the tomahawk colors. It’d be a fantastic modernization of this: ...except with a navy tomahawk instead of a black one.
  9. SFGiants58

    NHL 2018-19

    @VancouverFan69, I apologize for misreading your post. I just find that I’m sensitive to dog whistling, and I read meaning into a statement that had no ill will behind it.
  10. SFGiants58

    NHL 2018-19

    Dog whistle much?
  11. I get why they’d want to increase the amount of white on the uniforms, as the brown/yellow together can be a bit overpowering. I just hope they don’t go too far with it (e.g., the cap logo is yellow, not white outlined in yellow). The Taco Bell caps need to either go away or be reduced to alternate status. They’re way too 1970s for me.
  12. SFGiants58

    2019 MLB Changes

    Just change the tomahawk to a fireman’s axe. That’s a little less unfortunate implications than going from an unapproved Native American identity to a ‘Murica identity.
  13. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - San Diego Reds Added

    Thanks! It was a strange mixture of fun and pain-in-the-ass to do those recreations. Trying to match drop shadows is a bunch of busywork, especially when working from the reference material I had. Still, I like putting these obscure prototypes into a clear, digitized form. I've added a few more images, per @Gothamite's suggestions in the "Unused Logos and Uniforms" thread. I'm glad you like the Sunshine Skyway Bridge in the logo! I'm surprised that the Rays and Lightning have never really used it in a design. Heck, it was all over the speculation merchandise put out by Native Sun Sportswear: I do like that bridge.1 I've also added rounded edges on the right sides of the hole in the "B." It really improves the design! I've updated the original design to reflect these changes. I'm really happy you like the Florida-style design. As for the road script, I think I can make it a bit better by adding a bit of a flair to the lower part of the "p" and reducing the spacing between the two words. I've updated the original post accordingly. I do like your ideas for road uniform variations, especially the white cap (preferably in one of the semi-outdoor stadium concepts) and the "TB" road jersey! Like with the Toronto Giants, this one was both a fun exploration and a grim reminder of how my hometown team nearly moved due to undiscerning sellers overwhelmed by the awfulness that was Candlestick Park. A baseball world without the Giants-Dodgers rivalry, without Willie Mays Park, and with a glamour/legacy club playing at The Trop is one I wouldn't want to see. Just to show you how historically-ignorant the Naimoli group and various Tampa Bay leaders were, here's a quote from Stadium for Rent: Maybe in the days of pre-divisional play, that might have been true. However, what sells and intensifies the Giants-Dodgers rivalry is the proximity of the two teams and how their seen as "representing" different characteristics of their close locations. Losing the proximity would kill the rivalry, Mr. Critchfield. Thanks! I'm not entirely sure that it'd work in San Francisco, given that a "San Francisco"-style script would be a bit more like this: It's got more sharp edges, with a less blocky look. @the admiral had a whole point about how the Giants' classic script (seen in my image for the Florida-style concept) doesn't really work in San Francisco like it did in New York. While I disagree with him, I do see his point. These scripts I made here are decidedly more Florida-style. Thanks! I'm glad you like the research and the designs. It's really been fun diving deep into both aspects of the series. I found out a lot of new information over the course of the series, stuff that goes beyond a lot of what I'd picked up from sundry articles here and there. I'm glad you ordered Stadium for Rent, as it's a fantastic resource for finding out information on the Tampa Bay Sweepstakes and how thoroughly MLB and various Tampa Bay Area politicians/businessmen screwed over the potential baseball fans. I really wanted to get a digital rendering of that "Seattle" wordmark out there, especially since 1987-92 Mariners renderings were fairly obscure for a long time (something about The Cooperstown Collection and rights issues). I'd love to have one of those t-shirts as well! I think they pop up on eBay or Etsy every once in a while. A Giant collage! Now that every variation of the Giants is done, let's go through their history as seen in my series! Here are the primary and secondary logos, which show what's so "giant" about the Giants. New York = skyscrapers (re-appropriated from the original meaning - a line owner/manager Jim Mutrie said about the team following a win against the Phillies in 1885), San Francisco = Golden Gate Bridge (a giant orange bridge) Minnesota = Paul Bunyan (based on the late great Willie McCovey) Toronto = maple leaf (representing Anglophone Canada) San José = Santa Cruz Mountains/Mt. Hamilton Tampa Bay = the Tampa Bay/Sunshine Skyway Bridge. Their two locations, New York and San Francisco: The attempt to move to Metropolitan Stadium in Bloomington, Minnesota (thank you, Walter O'Malley, for talking Stoneham out of it), with Minneapolis, Twin Cities, and Minnesota identifiers: The "Candlestick Escape" relocations, Toronto, San José, and Tampa Bay: The alternate takes, New York Gothams (if the Giants maintained their 1883-84 name) and San Francisco Seals (if the Giants changed their name upon moving to San Francisco): Up next, we'll wrap up the Sweepstakes with a tiny tweak to the 1998 AL expansion team and a summary of what transpired in between the early-1980s and 1998. 1 Bob Andelman and Lori Parsells, Stadium For Rent: Tampa Bay’s Quest for Major League Baseball, 2nd edition (St. Petersburg, FL: CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform, 2015), 281; Marc Topkin, “And Another ‘Tampa Bay #Giants’ t-Shirt from the 1992 Pre-#Rays Erapic.Twitter.Com/QjJzCq4eKw,” Tweet, @tbtimes_rays (blog), August 2, 2013, https://twitter.com/tbtimes_rays/statuses/363296107503181824. 2 Andelman and Parsells, Stadium for Rent, 368.
  14. SFGiants58

    NHL 2018-19

    Sure, I prefer “Urban take on royalty” (metallic colors still convey royalty, in the context) to “Lakers on Ice.” It may be derivative of the Raiders, but the Kings made it their own. The Raiders don’t use nearly as much white as the Kings. Oh, you get no disagreement from me. Purple/white would be nice, but I’m not sure how they’d handle their template in a way that wouldn’t be derivative of the other one-color teams. Maybe sublimating a pattern onto the stripes? Still, avoiding purple is a must for the Kings, as it’s the color of their irrelevance.
  15. SFGiants58

    NHL 2018-19

    Yeah, no. “The Triple Crown Line” pales in comparison to a team winning two Stanley Cups. The Canucks went to a Stanley Cup Finals in royal, while the Sabres wore royal for two decades and the Islanders had an amazing dynasty in royal/orange. The Kings had none of that in purple. Black and silver IS the Kings, like it or not. While the current logo isn’t all that fantastic (I’d prefer an enlarged version of the Gretzky-era crown) and the home jersey could use a hem stripe, I still like them. They've got a nice dose of glitz to them, while still honoring the few periods of success this team had. Maybe purple just doesn’t fit for any NHL team, from both historical and aesthetic perspectives. I’d love it if the Kings won a Cup in purple/yellow, but I’m not going to argue with history. Heck, the Ducks had more success in purple (“eggplant”) than the Kings.