• Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by SFGiants58

  1. China: This one turned out really well! I like the second road uniform more than the first and the B&W alternate is better than the original. Chinese Taipei: I really like the striping pattern and the red alternate. Good work!
  2. SFGiants58

    Blandest Uniforms in Modern History

    I wouldn’t call them bland at all, but rather refined and minimalist (really working with the colors). However, this uniform set had terrible timing, coming out in the season following “The Decision.” After the Cavs’ previous, more complex uniform set: ...it looked like the team had gone into “post-Lebron austerity mode.” The poor play from the team in the years following Lebron’s exit didn’t help matters. They played like a rec league team, so it was easy to see their minimalist uniforms as a “rec league” look. I disagree with that assessment, but I can understand it.
  3. Welcome to MLB: The Defunct Series! After spending last year producing Project 32’s myriad of redesigns and tweaks, I figured that I should apply the same philosophy to the defunct teams of the majors. Much like its predecessor, each team will have two to three parts. The first part will be the main concept, the one that I’m happiest with presenting/matches the historical trajectory of the team’s aesthetics. The other will be an alternate take, in which I can explore different identities and shirk brand equity to have a little fun. I’ve also got plans to include several attempted relocations, with a focus on deals that fell through at the last minute/pose the most visual interest. These will not have alternate takes since they are essentially alternate takes in their own right. The releases will go by chronology, starting with the Boston Braves. The only one out of order is the last one since the short lifespan of the said team leaves their visual history up for more speculation. TEAMS Boston Braves (Boston Beacons) Houston/Milwaukee Cardinals St. Louis Browns (Updated) (Oriole-ized) (Updated) Milwaukee Brewers - former St. Louis Browns
  4. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Milwaukee Brewers Added

    Well, guess who's back! I apologize for the delays. I had some things I needed to attend to in my personal life, and this kind of fell on the back-burner. Thanks, guys! I'm glad you liked the Browns set. It was a lot of fun building the whole set, and I'm glad I added the Swingin' Louie (thanks @Carolingian Steamroller for the suggestion). Thanks! My guess would be that the Braves moved to Baltimore (becoming the Orioles), while the Pilots either stayed put or simply didn't exist. Anyway, here we go! MILWAUKEE BREWERS (FORMER ST. LOUIS BROWNS) - Swingin' and Brewin' It is well-known that Bill Veeck, upon learning that Anheuser-Busch Inc. bought the Cardinals (and even before that), attempted to move the Browns to Milwaukee. The club spent its first year in Milwaukee (the founding location of the American League, as noted by this sign across the street from the Milwaukee County Historical Society's headquarters), but then moved to St. Louis and played like a toxic trash heap for the better part of 50 years. With Veeck's former ownership of the American Association Brewers, such a move made sense. Unfortunately, the Old Boys' Club known as the American League owners wanted Veeck out and wouldn't let him move (finally allowing the team to move to Baltimore after selling the club). However, what if the move happened? In this series, let's suppose Veeck struck a deal to sell the team to Fred Miller while remaining in the organization. The AL owners would approve this move, transporting the team to Milwaukee and renaming the team the Brewers. Aesthetically, they would be a blend of the American Association Brewers and the Orioles, with a co-dominant color scheme and a cartoon logo. The color scheme would change, as Miller/Veeck would be anxious to downplay the Browns. Instead of navy/red, let's say navy/yellow-gold became the color scheme of choice, a unique color scheme in baseball that would homage the American Association team and fit in with the beer imagery/Marquette colors (UWM was red/white at the time). Powder would pop up in the 1970s/'80s, sticking around as an accent color (because it fits the city really well). Like the Baltimore Orioles, a locally-styled color scheme would supplant an ill-fitting one. Miller/Veeck ownership and their descendants would make sure to keep the general feel of this identity intact (again, akin to the Orioles). Much like the Orioles and the American Association Brewers, the team's identity revolves around cartoon logos. A new rendering of Owgust is the center of the identity, based around the 1947/mid-60s-1977, 1943, and 1942 versions (with some bits of my updated Wally Bird in the cap) - thanks @Gothamite for making them readily available on http://borchertfield.com. It also has a facsimile of the Brewers' old block M, which is notably less Michigan-y than others (narrow). The primary features the logo in a roundel with TribeType font and wheat leaves. The secondary is the head alone (with a yellow-gold outline) and the tertiary is the full Owgust logo. I'd like to send a big shout-out to @Htown1141 for workshopping the logos with me. Thank you so much for taking time to help me refine it. The uniforms are a blend of my previous Brewers concept (with American Association-style scripts, blue/yellow/blue stripes, and Packers-style sock stripes) and the Orioles (light-colored scripts/lettering with dark outlines, cartoon logo on cap, MLB Block Standard numbers with Rawlings Block NOB letters, etc.). I did make some modifications to the numbers, with dark-colored front numbers/NOB's and a Packers-style notch on the "5." I also used a powder blue-tinted base on the greys, for a bit more character. The first set of alternates have a bit more of an Oriole-ish touch. The gold alternate has a white front panel on the cap, while the navy alternate features the roundel and a yellow-gold/white contrast on the numbers. The final set of alternates are a bit more "civic" in nature. The special event jersey uses a light blue base with the "Milwaukee" script, for various special events (e.g., 4/14, opening of Summerfest, etc.). It also has a cap to match Owgust's cap (and to emulate the Orioles' "O's" hat). The second is my old 1948 American Association Brewers concept, with a recolored version of my new Owgust logo. It's a nice way to tie in the new and old clubs. The dugout jackets are updates of my previous Brewers jackets, with the primary one gaining the "Milwaukee" script, the roundel, and the new Owgust. The 1940s jacket features an update Owgust. The Brewers/Orioles fusion turned out better than I thought it would! Not only does it allow the Brewers (former Browns) to embrace Owgust, but it keeps them further away from their cluttered mess of an identity and other side-effects (e.g.. Selig, "Wrigley North," etc.). C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, the Philly A's!
  5. SFGiants58

    NHL 2018-19

    Part of me wished the Mighty Ducks nostalgia wave faded away. It was novel a couple of years ago, but I’ve kind of soured on the logo. It just isn’t all that good. The purple/dark greenish teal is ok, but there are better options (dark green/orange). I just want the team to create an ornithologically-correct/stylized portrait of a mallard duck or another breed with dark plumage. Think Quad City Mallards, but with some modifications.
  6. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Milwaukee Brewers Added

    Thanks, guys! Thanks! Yeah, I figured that The Smilin' Saint wouldn't fly with some people. I've adjusted the roundel and the caps to a non-Louie version, while also creating a roundel to feature the Apotheosis statue. I rather like it, but I still prefer The Smilin' Saint. Thanks! I really enjoyed making the heritage alt and adjusting the set to accommodate the drop shadow. Thanks! Swingin' Louie is indeed on the table, rendered in a manner similar to that Orioles logo! He's really happy, wouldn't you say? Thanks, guys! I'll be incorporating this C+C into the update. Thanks! I really like the Apotheosis as a civic symbol, and I do wish it featured on the Blues' uniforms in some capacity as a patch (file away for NHL series ideas). I did get a nice blend of Germanic and French in the concept, perfect for St. Louis and Missouri (or any city in former New France where German immigrants settled). Missouri really is the Alsace-Lorraine of the South and the Midwest (German/French border blending). Thanks! Tampa will have an extensive feature in the series, as will the Carolina Twins (have to go state name for the nickname to make sense). Anyway, here's the Browns update, with a tweaked cartoon logo incorporating @coco1997's and @WavePunter's suggested tweaks! C+C is appreciated, as always!
  7. I think the no-black option works perfectly! It’s far cleaner and works better as a flag homage. Your idea for the blue alt sounds good to me.
  8. I like that solid green alt for Brazil! Canada, well I'm less than sold on it. I'm not keen on the black being there (I get that plenty of their national teams use it as a secondary color, but still). A no-black version of the White Sox template could look better. I do like the Maple Leaf alternate, although I kind of wish there was a blue French Canadian set, if only for a little variation. Still, good work.
  9. SFGiants58

    2018 MLB Season

    ...and Evan Longoria broke his hand. Oh dear. Ah well, at least our beloved Panda can return to his old spot and still be the guy to hit the walk-off home run to win the World Series against the Red Sox! Also, bullpen is overworked with little rest over the next few series. Again, oh dear.
  10. SFGiants58

    NHL 2017-18

    Gosh, Morgo vs. Ice_Cap might be my favorite board rivalry. It’s more even than the one-sided beatdowns dfwabel handed Tank, more intense than the BFiB-related mud-slinging McCarthy vs. McCall (my favorite McCall vs. everyone variant), and less dangerous than ICS vs. those on “borrowed time.” I’m just hoping the Canucks do something that’ll look good on their template. Maybe it’s Johnny, I’m not sure.
  11. This thread is off to a good start! Argentina: I really like the way you've handled the colors here, balancing the aesthetics of their flag and their association football kits. Well done! Australia: Your update is a big improvement over the original, with a better color balance. My one nitpick is that the Aboriginal Flag isn't on the appropriate alt, but that's a minor fix. Brazil: I like how you've blocked the colors throughout the uniform and I enjoy the association football alternate. However, I wouldn't mind if there were a few more green options. It is the base color of the flag, after all. All in all, I'm liking it! I look forward to seeing how you'll handle Cuba, Germany (white jersey with black pants and white socks as an alt?), and Japan.
  12. SFGiants58

    NHL 2017-18

    I call that the “Fighting Irish” fallacy, for MOD EDIT reasons. Besides, using Native American-style artwork without consulting Native American groups or designers can get kind of iffy (profiteering off of an oppressed people without their consent). It’s why I’m glad the Seahawks overhauled their look to make the homage less obvious. The Orca is just a mess of a logo and is a total non-starter for me. Johnny could be simplified a little and tweaked to be a royal/kelly/white design (no navy and silver), with a decent backing/enclosing shape (like the Senators or Penguins). That’s the best option. Both SiR logos should be condemned to a dumpster, in favor of a stylized “VC” logo. It was a mistake of a logo.
  13. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Milwaukee Brewers Added

    Thanks! I did try out the red/gold/brown, but the gold blurred too much with the red to really work. It's part of why I prefer the gold monogram edition. Anyway, it's alternate take time! ST. LOUIS BROWNS, PT. II - Let's Get Oriole-ized! When brainstorming ideas for the alternate takes, this was one of the first ones that came to mind. What if the Browns, now alone in St. Louis, adopted the aesthetic trappings of the Baltimore Orioles during the 1950s and '60s? This would include brown-orange co-dominance (not unprecedented in the Browns' history), thin cursive scripts, and a cartoon logo on the cap. Inspired by @raysox's work on the @SmilingBirdLogo Twitter account, I set about adapting the Orioles' Wally Bird for the Browns. I opted not to use the Brownie elf, in an attempt to reduce similarities to the NFL team/s. Instead, I chose to produce a cartoon rendering of Louis the IX of France, the namesake of St. Louis. Using these two images as a reference: I turned the Orioles' bird into a portrait of the crusader, making sure to include the "StL" on his crown (boasting about canonization?). Basically, it's the sports logos equivalent of this bit from Father Ted: It may be sacrilegious, but it's fun! The primary logo demonstrates the brown/orange split and the FDL detailing, while the vintage "St.L" acts as a tertiary. The scripts have a thinner weight and slightly reshaped letters, to better mimic the Orioles' current scripts. I opted to use contrast-colored front numbers and NOB's, to get a bit more brown into the design (so you don't feel the temptation to call them the "Oranges" - a mistake of the imitation Browns). The uniform and sock stripes are all off of my Orioles concept, albeit with brown replacing black. The primary is on the sleeve. The alternates are for both home and road use. The brown top comes with an all-brown "StL" cap and a single-color script (but dual layer, like what the Orioles do - same with the single-color cap logo). The orange shirt simply swaps around some colors on the home uniform. The other alternates include a white-front panel cap (like the Orioles) and a 1944-style throwback (complete with the drop shadow from the main concept). The latter uniform features the brown alternate's cap. The dugout jacket is a color swap of my Orioles jacket, with the one-color "St. Louis" script as the centerpiece. This is a little attempt to hybrid the Browns with their successor, which turned out far better than I thought it would. I know the cap logo is a bit silly/maybe inappropriate, but I've come to like it. C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, what if Bill Veeck had his way in relocation?
  14. SFGiants58

    NHL 2018-19

    I’m just wondering if Colorado will revive the Rockies-style third (with that bland mountain logo) or so something new (C-puck related, maybe). Isn’t it funny? We were having such energetic debates about the Avalanche’s identity, which all ceased once they unveiled lightly-tweaked versions of their classic set last year (tweaks that improved it, IMHO). It just goes to show that a unique/inventive/“modern classic” uniform template can distract from problems with logo design.
  15. SFGiants58

    North American Pro Soccer 2018

    Because some association football fans think that emulating all of the traditions of the European game will make fans of European teams take their MLS squads seriously. That's why we've got ultras (ugh), pro-rel stans, and anti-salary cap advocates.
  16. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Milwaukee Brewers Added

    Thanks for the C+C guys, I appreciate it! Thanks, guys! I did think about having a gold monogram on the cap, but it kind of messed with the color scheme I was going for (i.e., gold only on the fleur-de-lis and outlines within shields). I tried out the brown FDL, and it really didn't "stand out" enough. A red FDL looked far better because it worked well with the red bill on the hat. The gold insignia worked better than I thought it would. In this update, I adjusted the shade of gold to be darker, so that it avoids standing out too much. Thanks! In this update, I'll do just that. Thanks! I've restructured that logo, adjusting it to be more of an homage to the 1940s-'50s shield logo (statue on top, baseball at center) with fewer FDL's (all gold now). Thank you! I tried it out, but I'm not sure if I like it that much. Anyway, here's the full update, with the recommended changes incorporated. I think that's an improvement over the previous edition. Thanks again, guys! The alternate take should be up later today.
  17. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Milwaukee Brewers Added

    Thanks! I was surprised when I heard about it during my research, given how ingrained they are within St. Louis. Thanks! I figured that the different tertiary logos worked with the respective color balances of each team (Houston = red, Milwaukee = navy). I figured I shouldn't go crazy with additional stripes since the minimalism of the Cardinals' design is what makes the birds-on-bat work. Thanks, guys! Thanks! Both felt weird to me, as the Cardinals have such a long history of beating up on the Brewers and the Astros. Also, @NicDB, you forgot the most important link of all: the BFiB twitter page. While it's not an entirely fair assessment of Cardinals fans, it is both hilarious and disturbing at times. Thank you! I really liked the powder blues for this one, even though I'm not big into neck-to-mid calf powder blue. The cap logos, no matter how good they are, still look weird to me. It's like I'm looking at Cardinals affiliates rather than the team itself. Spoilers: both will appear, although I'll be starting from scratch with the Arrows. I really don't like the proposed design. Thank you! A big goal of this series is to be a teaching aid for baseball history. A lot of little nuggets of obscure history will pop up here. Anyway, (summons Regular Car Reviews' dirty voice) it's brown time! ST. LOUIS BROWNS, PT. I - Louie Louie, Oh Brownie! (Disclaimer: since this is a modified version of a concept I posted in Project 32, I repeat much of what I said in that thread) Do you want to know why this team moved? Well, here is the St. Louis Browns experience, as presented by the seminal Irish comedy series Father Ted: The Browns were a largely incompetent, underfunded organization that lost any leverage they had in the market when the Busch family bought the Cardinals. They barely survived their time in St. Louis (a short recap by Hardball Times writer and fellow board member @pmoehrin here, and a cool website designed by @STL FANATIC here) and there's no way that the city could have ever supported two teams in the long-term. However, what if the Browns had survived to the modern age? What would they look like? Well, here's the answer. The most obvious change from the original Browns is the color scheme. Gone is orange, and in its place is red. I did this for two reasons. The first reason is that brown/orange is too associated with the other two teams named "Browns" (the team that's now the Ravens and the record book-ignoring doofuses), and I wanted the baseball Browns to carve their own aesthetic path (let's presume they added red sometime in the late-60's/early-70's). The second reason is that I wanted to try out the color scheme, as I've grown to like its application on Indians concepts and the NHL Panthers. The second change to differentiate the team from the NFL Browns is the deletion of Brownie the Elf. I've never liked the logo. The identity now focuses on St. Louis' history (as part of New France from late-seventeenth to mid-eighteenth centuries - here's a good book on New France) and the city's namesake Saint Louis (King Louis IX of France, from 1226-70). The real team referenced this connection in their 1936-51 primary logo. It was from this point that I drew my inspiration. The new primary logo, to go along with the Louis IX theme, is now a shield, redone from the original. The logos feature the color "Champagne Silver," from the USFL's Michigan Panthers. I thought the name and color fit with the brown/red pairing and the city's ties to France. In one section is a modernized version of the '39-'51's rendering of the Apotheosis of St. Louis statue, commissioned for the 1904 World's Fair/Louisiana Purchase Exhibition/Anthropology Days/Olympic Games and therefore connected to the wackiest Olympic marathon ever). Here is a comparison with the original logo. The (thankfully) less cluttered primary logo features fleur-de-lis sourced from the 1945-53 alternate logo (in a pattern that mimics the Île-de-France flag and heraldry, the home region of Louis IX). The bottom of the logo features a baseball with the cap logo, while the team script and a line divide the sections. It's a far cleaner design than the original concept. The secondary/cap logo is based around the 1946-53 cap logo, with alterations to make it look less like the contemporary Cardinals cap logo. I gave it spurs (a la the Cardinals' 1900-19 primary logo - per Cooperstown Collection), and adjusted the height/spacing/serifs of the letters to better accommodate an outline. Here is a comparison. The tertiary is a quarter-divided shield with the sock stripes, Apotheosis rendering, cap logo, and fleur-de-lis. There are also new wordmarks, using the 2014 NBA All-Star Game font, as it fit the "New France" look. The uniforms emulate the 1952-3 set, AKA "The Padres can totally do brown/white/grey" look. I tweaked the scripts to clean up inconsistent line weights, standardized the tails, and widened the letter kerning to accommodate outlines (a tip for fellow concept artists, adding outlines to scripts necessitates wider kerning). Here is a comparison. The fleur-de-lis takes the place of front numbers (now with red outline), while the tertiary and primary logos grace the sleeves of the home and road uniforms, respectively. The barberpole sock stripes give way to a white outlined in red tri-stripe design, while the red-billed hat remains. I used black cleats to enhance the "retro" aesthetic. The number font is my modified version of the UNC number font, and the NOB font is Rawlings' block (used by the Orioles and in the past by the Cardinals). The home/road alternate is an updated take on the 1908 home uniform, with an "St.L" on the chest and the fleur-de-lis on a piped cap (a pre-1950's design element I'd like to see return). I added a bit more white into the design, for consistency's sake. The Heritage Day alternate is a brown/red fauxback to the 1944 home uniforms (with the addition of the fleur-de-lis on the cap and the modern secondary logo), one of the few bright moments in team history. I replaced the font with the new one, as I wanted more separation between the pre- and post-1950s Browns (also allowing for a straight throwback). This ties the "modern" Browns to the history of the old Browns and their sorta-funky uniforms. The dugout jacket is much the same as their Project 32 version, albeit with the new tertiary logo on the back and new striping pattern in the trim. I think I've improved on my previous design, while also demonstrating how the Browns could have changed up their aesthetics if they outlasted the Cardinals. C+C is appreciated, as always! For the alternate take, let's give them a bit more of an Oriole-ish identity!
  18. SFGiants58

    NHL 2017-18

    Ah, that looks far better than the text version. I'd still replace the leaf with a different symbol or a pattern (plaid?).
  19. SFGiants58

    NHL 2017-18

    Yeah, let's count the ways in which this logo has problems: 1. It's far too text-dependent, and I'm not sure how well it would translate to a text-free backing shape. Maybe turn the "G" into a "V" with a few tweaks? 2. The maple leaf has to go, obviously. But given the revisions needed to go from "G" to "V," what occupies that space in the logo? 3. How well would it translate to royal/kelly? I'm not sure it'd be nearly as smooth a transition as we'd think. If you could solve those issues, you might have something there. It's better than "steroid Johnny," but I don't think it'd work nearly as well as full-body or head Johnny from the 2007 redesign. Heck, why not just have a Johnny in profile within a triangle or peeking out from between a "V" (e.g., the Millionaire's V). That'd be simple and hassle-free.
  20. SFGiants58

    NHL 2017-18

    Better yet, put Johnny in front of the Millionaires' V: That'd be a nice tribute to Vancouver hockey history.
  21. SFGiants58

    Logos And Uniforms That Are So Ugly They’re Awesome

    ...and I'm pretty sure most Sharks fans either don't know or don't care about the Seals/Barons' legacy. But they should, because it means they can say "We're not bad enough to move to 30 minutes outside of Cleveland or get absorbed into the Dallas Stars." Speaking of which, I hope the Sharks wear a Shark-ified version of a Seals uniform as their new third. We don't need the "Joe Thornton PTSD" black jerseys coming back.
  22. SFGiants58

    2018 NBA Post Season

    More people here need to consider Wilt. Rules and the fabric of the game changed because of this guy. Without Wilt, Jordan and Lebron wouldn’t have ascended in the way they did.
  23. Well, I guess there's no better way to celebrate post #1600 than by launching my newest concept thread! Welcome to MLB: Project 32! After posting in my tweaks thread for about two years (where I'll keep posting little one-offs), I figured I should reorganize all of my concepts with new presentations, template tweaks (mostly altering sleeve and trouser displays), and other refinements. I will try to have regular updates, as long as my schedule allows it. Above are the preliminary colors for each team, along with new divisional alignments! There are no more Centrals, but rather two divisions of eight. The Astros and Diamondbacks have swapped spots (making the 1998 expansion an AL expansion, parallel to the 1993 NL expansion), while one team has been added to each league. The top two teams in each division make the playoffs (seeded 1-4 regardless of division) and the first round grows to seven games (because no Wild Card game and "death to small sample size randomness"). This series will feature two parts per team. One part will be the main concept, the one I'm most happy with presenting. The other will be an alternate take. These will explore past identities, shirk off brand equity, and present interesting fusions. I hope to you take you guys on a wild ride, so let's get started! TEAMS American League East Baltimore Orioles (Modern St. Louis Browns) Boston Red Sox (Forest Green + Red Sox) Carolina Pilots (Modern Seattle Pilots) Cleveland Indians (Cleveland Guardians) (Navy-Centric) (Guardians Update and Recolor) Detroit Tigers (Bengal-ized Tigers) New York Yankees (Dugout Script + Red Accent Yankees) Tampa Bay Stingrays (Tampa Bay Rays "of Light") Toronto Blue Jays (Salvaging the Black Jays) AL East Updates/AL West Teaser Dugout Jackets (Alternate Takes) American League West Anaheim Angels (Navy/Red Revival) Arizona Diamondbacks (Phoenix Snakes) (Snakes Update) Chicago White Sox (Greyscale goodness) Kansas City Royals (Royal Blue + Metallic Gold) (Minor Tweaks) Minnesota Twins (Forest Green + Light Blue and "Twin Cities") (New Road Alternate) Oakland Athletics (Oakland Oaks) Seattle Mariners (Royal/Yellow and Pt. I Update) (New Grey Base Color) Texas Rangers (Dallas Chaparrals) AL West Updates and NL East Teaser Dugout Jackets (Alternate Takes) National League East Atlanta Braves (Atlanta Firebirds) (Firebirds Update) Cincinnati Reds (Fancy Block, scripts, and black highlights) Miami Marlins (Updated) (Florida Flamingos) Montréal Expos (Updated) (Montréal Voyageurs) (White Pine Tweaks) New York Mets (Updated) (Black and Pink Windowpanes and Road Options) Philadelphia Phillies (Blue and Gold, a keystone, and William Penn) Pittsburgh Pirates (Updated) (Tuscan Font and Updated Pirate) Washington Nationals (Salvaging the Beveled Nats) NL East Updates and NL West Teaser Dugout Jackets (Alternate Takes) National League West Chicago Cubs (Gray Update) (1930's Modernization) Colorado Rockies (Updated) (Denver Zephyrs) Houston Astros (Updated) (1994-99 gradient) (Houston Railers) (Navy Nagareboshi) Los Angeles Dodgers (Los Angeles Angels) Milwaukee Brewers (Rescuing the Germanic Brewers) St. Louis Cardinals (Updated) (1956 Modernization) San Diego Padres (Surf's Up in Navy and Brown/Light Blue/Yellow) San Francisco Giants (San Francisco Seals) Dugout Jackets (Alternate Takes)
  24. SFGiants58

    What if the MLB had promotion and relegation?

    MLS should be lauded for shirking pro/rel. It also doesn’t help that a lot of the “pro/rel in MLS” folks are complete jackanapes.