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Everything posted by SFGiants58

  1. SFGiants58

    The Sports Media Thread

    I finished it, and I really liked it! The producers made fantastic use of interviews and archival materials, such as the prison phone calls and the perspectives of his family and friends. My one point of contention is that the show brings up the first public discussion of Hernandez’s sexuality (on a TV interview with an author) right before describing the night of Hernandez’s suicide. I get why it was done (chronological reasons), but the juxtaposition of the two events seems a bit iffy. Maybe it’s just me, I don’t know. Still, I recommend the podcast to anyone with an interest in the case. I’d also recommend Last Podcast on the Left’s Chris Benoit episode for a similar discussion (albeit with far more dark humor about wrestling’s professional culture, YMMV with some of it) about sporting culture, CTE, and the public response to athletes committing murder.
  2. SFGiants58

    2018 NFL Season

    I’m just glad we’ll get a good UrinatingTree video out of it. The dude will be pissed.
  3. SFGiants58

    2018-19 NBA Season

    A bit off topic: a fun/spooky detail, one can see the murderous Menendez brothers in this Mark Jackson card: I wonder if that makes the card worth more.
  4. SFGiants58

    Philadelphia Phillies Unveil New Primary Logo

    It looks rushed, like a kid turning in a first draft of their term paper without any edits (heck, even a once-over in Grammarly). They probably took the graphic files already available (how the overlap survived), flipped a few colors and stroke weights around, mashed two elements together, and called it a day. It’s something that’d be laughed off of the concepts folder with the comment “needs refinement.” It’s not like the Phillies didn’t have options for logos to modernize/adapt into their 1992-present identity. The William Penn statue pitching, Independence Hall, the keystone shape, etc. are all available to them. That could be iconic, but this is a mashup in the worst sense.
  5. SFGiants58

    Seattle NHL Brand Discussion

    That didn’t change it being a good look with a fantastic color scheme. Had they just been the “Anaheim Ducks” from day one, fewer people would have a problem with it. That’s not “bush league” at all. Sea Lions are hardly cartoony or cheesy. Is there a famed cartoon sea lion in media like there are for ducks? Chose a dignified logo, and they’ll be fine. It’s a lot better than Kraken, Renegades, or my least favorite, Totems. No new Native American-themed names or motifs without tribal approval.
  6. SFGiants58

    Best Logo Refreshes

    Thank you for responding. I see entirely where you’re coming from, trying to be detached and finding a solution through your interpretation of design theory. I’ve run into this problem myself, and it’s often frustrating to balance what the designer, the client, and the customer want. However, you dodged my “towing the company line” criticism. Are you ever going to criticize a decision made by Adidas/Nike in their design department or with their performance materials, or will you just spit out defenses? I’m not disagreeing with your assessments, but I am curious about how you stand on critiquing your employer/s.
  7. SFGiants58

    Seattle NHL Brand Discussion

    A sea lion is hardly a jumbo shrimp or a baby cake.
  8. SFGiants58

    Miami Marlins 2019 Rebrand

    I just take "a bit of column A, a bit of column B" as my choice. There's some truth, but it's spun to make himself sound better and push his ideas forward. Which brings me to point out: He helped in the pillaging of the Expos. He's hardly a guy I'd trust entirely. The whole Marlins organization has been a mess since its inception. Maybe giving an expansion team to one of the various Tampa Bay groups in 1993 would have been a better way for the majors to enter Florida. Maybe.
  9. SFGiants58

    Seattle NHL Brand Discussion

    The state doesn’t have all that many cryptids. That’s a shame, quite frankly. We need more drunk idiots mistaking regular animals, people, and inanimate objects for beasts there. That reminds me, the Devils should introduce a secondary logo inspired by their namesake. It’s not Satan, it’s this creature seen by many!
  10. SFGiants58

    2018 MLB Off Season Thread

    Well, we'll wait and see if the Cardinals do "Christians' Day" again. You might get a controversial quote out of him then, given his religious background. It'd be a bit like when Matheny said: Yeah, :censored: Matheny. I'm glad the Cardinals fired his ass.
  11. SFGiants58

    2018 MLB Off Season Thread

    Hopefully, Tim Lincecum will sneak an edible to Goldy before his press conference, for revenge!
  12. SFGiants58

    Best Logo Refreshes

    No worries, man. You’ve produced a lot of fantastic stuff over the years and I really like hearing your opinions on logos, design, and branding. It’s nice to have that “insider” perspective on the matter as well, especially when it comes to the client-designer relationship. If I know anything from my time learning about historiography and book publishing, the publisher/client can do a lot to steer a piece of media in the right, wrong, or lateral direction. I have never seen you “talk down” to a disrespectful point, as you’ve always been good about admitting your biases and having a sense of humor about your work. The sense can maybe be there (from some interpretations) is all I’m arguing. (e.g., “objectively better” can be a problematic phrase, I’ve found). I like having these discussions, especially as they help us tease out different parts of design theory that we may not normally find.
  13. SFGiants58

    Best Logo Refreshes

    Aren’t you forgetting? No matter how much you explain your design to people, they will dislike it (for some legitimate reasons, others not as much). I like it, even though I’d rather the team adopt a lighthouse/seafaring look (albeit not as cheesy as the fisherman set). Sometimes, I get the sense that you and @BrandMooreArt like “talking down” to the posters here, like we don’t know anything about design and are just a bunch of bumpkins. There’s also the sense that both of you “tow the company line” when it comes to performance materials, defending them to the extreme despite board members complaining about them. I agree with you guys on a lot of your theory and research points, but there’s still that sense of defending your employer. You haven’t acted in the combative and unproductive/unprofessional manner with which Tom O’Grady verbally assaulted the board (which should have lost him a contract), but it can come off as elitism. It’s just something to keep in mind when posting here (and I often find myself agreeing with you on a lot of topics).
  14. SFGiants58

    Seattle NHL Brand Discussion

    This is exactly why a Portland MLB team shouldn’t use the sobriquet “Beavers.”
  15. SFGiants58

    Best Logo Refreshes

    This thread got me thinking, the A’s really need to update their elephant logo to something less-1955/1988 (white variant used, per its origin story - John McGraw didn’t call the team a green elephant): A lot of the linework, detailing, and the “A’s” insignia should be overhauled/made more consistent.
  16. SFGiants58

    Players on the "RIGHT" Team, but "WRONG" Uniform

    It was in that outfit that he received the honor of becoming a minifigure: Yes, that's the face they went with for him.
  17. SFGiants58

    Seattle NHL Brand Discussion

    Low-hanging fruit? Yes. Appropriate? Also yes.
  18. SFGiants58

    NBA Changes 2018-19

    The Golden Gate Bridge is prettier and features a team color for the Giants (orange). It’s cliché for a good reason, like the Space Needle or *insert New York skyscraper here.* The western span of the Bay Bridge is more important, but it’s also more utilitarian and not an odd color. Let the Warriors have it.
  19. Welcome to MLB: The Defunct Series! After spending last year producing Project 32’s myriad of redesigns and tweaks, I figured that I should apply the same philosophy to the defunct teams of the majors. Much like its predecessor, each team will have two to three parts. The first part will be the main concept, the one that I’m happiest with presenting/matches the historical trajectory of the team’s aesthetics. The other will be an alternate take, in which I can explore different identities and shirk brand equity to have a little fun. I’ve also got plans to include several attempted relocations, with a focus on deals that fell through at the last minute/pose the most visual interest. These will not have alternate takes since they are essentially alternate takes in their own right. The releases will go by chronology, starting with the Boston Braves. The only one out of order is the last one since the short lifespan of the said team leaves their visual history up for more speculation. TEAMS The Defunct Set Boston Braves (Boston Beacons) St. Louis Browns (Updated) (Oriole-ized) (Updated) Philadelphia Athletics (The Charlie O Touch) (Mini-Update) New York Giants (Updated) (New York Gothams) (Update and Mets Variants) Brooklyn Dodgers (Updated "Brooklyn" script) (Brooklyn Canaries w/ Los Angeles Canaries modification) Washington Senators/Washington Nationals (Nationals Update - new primary) (Twins-style Senators/Nationals) Milwaukee Braves (Update Explanation) (Milwaukee Brewers I and Milwaukee Brewers II) Kansas City Athletics (Update Explanation) (Kansas City Blues - Update) (Kansas City Monarchs) Washington Senators II (1990s redesign) Attempted Relocations and Failed Expansion - Organized by City Atlanta Atlanta Athletics The Carolinas Dallas Dallas Athletics (Update) Denver Denver Athletics Denver Pirates Hartford Indianapolis Indianapolis Arrows Los Angeles Los Angeles Angels - former Washington Sens/Nats or expansion team (Updated) Los Angeles Athletics (Update) Louisville Louisville Athletics (Elephant Jersey) Miami Milwaukee Houston/Milwaukee Cardinals Milwaukee Brewers - former St. Louis Browns (Updated) (Project 32 Style) Milwaukee Athletics (Milwaukee update explanation) Milwaukee White Sox (Update Comparison & New Home Uniform Explanation) Milwaukee Brewers Prototypes Minnesota Minneapolis Giants, Twin Cities Giants, and Minnesota Giants Monterrey, México New Orleans New Orleans Athletics New Orleans Pirates Phoenix Phoenix Athletics Portland San Diego San Diego Athletics San Francisco San Francisco Seals - former Washington Sens/Nats or expansion team/s San José San Juan, Puerto Rico Seattle Seattle Athletics (green/yellow and green/white) Chicago Athletics and Seattle White Sox Tampa Bay - The Sweepstakes! - Introduction, Outline, and Dramatis Personæ Tampa Bay Pirates Tampa Bay Tarpons (ex-Minnesota Twins & Washington Sens/Nats) Tampa Bay Athletics Florida White Sox Toronto Toronto Giants Washington, D.C. (and Virginia) Washington Nationals (Ex-San Diego Padres)
  20. SFGiants58

    2018 MLB Off Season Thread

    Well, @Bucfan56, our least favorite player is gone! May he lose bouts to doors wherever he goes.
  21. SFGiants58

    Best Logo Refreshes

    There’s a whole thread of them from @ren69 and other contributors (e.g., @ZionEagle and @Htown1141): It’s all top-notch stuff.
  22. SFGiants58

    Sun League - A Floridian Baseball Branding Project

    Manatees: Somehow, you made Albertus whimsical! I didn’t think that was possible. I like your updated manatee and uniform design. Good work. Currents: I love the pun in the name and the “Bulb Ruth” logo. I would like to see more of it on the uniforms, be it through a sleeve patch or as the main insignia. Well done. Fruit Bats: The font, logos, and dark grey road uniform are all fantastic touches. I do agree with @coco1997‘s idea of a white panel on the home hat, as it would help the design stand out more. Overall, I like it. I can’t wait to see the final team and updates!
  23. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Florida White Sox Added

    Thanks! I'm not a big fan of the "country club" logo. It looks too corny for my tastes, much like the original Arrows set. I also was glad to get that color scheme (with some help from @raysox, whose latest series you guys should totally see), which really screams "Florida" in a way that teal/black/silver and the Rays'/post-2002 Marlins' looks didn't. Thank you! I'm glad you liked it. While I'm not a fan of the Sox ever using a "White Sox" wordmark on a jersey, it does look nice here: Thanks! I wanted something that looked period-appropriate and classy, which I think I got. Thanks! I'm glad that you like the color scheme and the fonts. Thanks! I can see why somebody would want this to happen, but for all of New Comiskey's problems, at least it wasn't built on a toxic dump, didn't go insanely over budget, and didn't have to have renovations before play started like The Trop did. I found this video that covers the process of building the monstrosity (at about 10 minutes in): This is everything I could hope for out of a late-'80s/early-'90s news feature. The fashion, the imagery, the editing, etc. all play to that aesthetic. The Trop was the period's equivalent to the Carson stadium plan in the NFL's relocation roundelay. They would both be built with public money in a problematic location, having to clean up toxic waste, and would turn into a headache for fans and the league (Raiders/Chargers was a stupid pairing, IMHO). Heck, two guys named Jerry advocated for these plans (Richardson in the NFL, Reinsdorf in the AL - especially after construction finished), but only the baseball one succeeded. Thanks! I had a lot of fun producing it. If you're wondering what Forest Green/Red-Orange would look like, here you go! While I like it, I think the yellow adds the perfect "oomph" to the design. Thanks! That's always been a goal for my White Sox concepts, making sure that the socks are white-bottomed (a la the old Red Sox). I've even prepared a compilation image of all of my White Sox concepts, to see how I've changed their looks for each city. Click it for a high-res edition: My one constant is that they have the same pattern for white socks, while also shifting for each city (black/red/gold in Milwaukee, navy/greenish teal in Seattle, and dark green/red-orange/yellow in Tampa Bay/Florida). I'm just dreading how big the A's version of this image will be by the time the series ends (Philadelphia, Kansas City, Oakland, then Los Angeles - after I redo it, Dallas, Louisville, San Diego, Seattle, Atlanta, Milwaukee, Chicago, Denver, Phoenix, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, San José, and Portland - the last being speculation).
  24. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Florida White Sox Added

    Thanks! Here we go! Tampa Bay Sweepstakes Intro FLORIDA WHITE SOX - Cigar Sox, Verde Flavor This is one of the big ones, one of the ones that doesn't need excessive amounts of rabbit hole diving. I won't go into too much detail here, as there are well-researched New York Times and Chicago Tribune articles about it. The outline of the scenario is that the White Sox had fallen onto hard times again. The Jerry Reinsdorf and Eddie Einhorn ownership had failed to follow up on the success of the 1983 team, while also fighting the rot that years of financial neglect had left on Comiskey Park (bits were falling off of the interior, such as the home dugout). Not willing or unable to perform a Fenway or Wrigley-style renovation, Reinsdorf and Einhorn looked at publicly-financed options throughout Illinois (e.g., a dome in Addison and a shared stadium with the Bears in Chicago proper), all of which failed with government and voters.1 In late-1987, the Sox looked to St. Petersburg's (still fighting with Tampa over getting a team) new Suncoast Dome as a home. The team leadership entered into talks with Rick Dodge and the other St. Pete stadium leaders, trying to grasp the marketing potential of the Tampa Bay area and Florida. Seeing that this threat was serious, government officials in Illinois entered into negotiation with Reinsdorf/Einhorn, with efforts intensifying after the Florida legislators approved a $30 million package for the team in 1988. Seeing that the team was nearly gone, the Illinois legislature opted to vote on a $167 million package of public money to build a new stadium. If the deal didn't get approval by the end of June 30, 1988, the Sox would flee to Florida. Illinois Governor Jim Thompson decided that the best course of action was strong-arming the opponents of the bill to get the 30 senate and 60 house votes necessary to pass it.2 As David Haugh wrote, Through a combination of lobbying opponents and stopping the clock at 11:59 PM (the debate went to 12:03 AM), the stadium bill passed and the White Sox stayed in Chicago. We even have an audio recording of the event: The White Sox stayed and St. Pete had their hopes brutally dashed. However, what if the bill failed or had never been proposed in the first place? What would have happened to the Pale Hose? For starters, the team would have adopted the "Florida White Sox" name. We know this through both the establishment of "Florida White Sox Broadcasting, Inc."4 and these shirts (thank you @B-Rich for calling these to our attention): While the logo is a bit "country club" for my tastes, the Forest Green/Orange (and maybe gold) looked like an intriguing direction for the team's identity. It would have "Florida-ified" their final stint with navy/red. I decided to implement these colors, albeit with modifications (orange giving way to the Marlins' red-orange and gold becoming an accent color). The other big component of the design was the font, inspired by cigar boxes from Ybor City. It's fitting for a charter American League franchise that's trying to adopt "regional character:" The font's name is Caniste Semibold. I used it to build the classic components of the White Sox's identity (e.g., an interlocking "Sox" crest and wordmarks). The sock patch is the secondary, while a logo invoking the late-1980s (using a modified vector rendering of the state) appears as a retro design. The home and road set features striping to highlight the three colors, along with double-outlined numbers and single-layer NOB's. The socks use my standard "white socks" patterning. I used my powder blue-tinted road grey, for a "cooler" look. The red-orange and green tops feature the "Sox" insignia, with the red-orange top featuring a red-orange bill on the cap. The original image with messed-up striping on the green jersey is here. The throwback alternates include both the 1917 uniform emulation and my simulation as to what the 1989 Florida White Sox (playing at Al Lang Stadium for a year before moving to the dome) would look like. It's a green/orange take on the 1987-90 home uniform (which sort of coincided with the move attempt), which is lacking enough of the White Sox's traditional design to work as a transitional set. The primary jacket features a "White Sox" wordmark and arm striping to mimic the socks, while the 1917 jacket from my Milwaukee White Sox concept returns. The White Sox's pre-1990 identity crisis gave me plenty of room to add some "local character" to the look. While I vastly prefer the Sox's post-1990 identity, they could still look distinctive in Florida. C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, "Yeahman, we got one dang'um relocation attempt!" 1 Bob Andelman and Lori Parsells, Stadium For Rent: Tampa Bay’s Quest for Major League Baseball, 2nd edition (St. Petersburg, FL: CreateSpace Independent Publishing Platform, 2015), 8-11; David Haugh, “White Sox Saved for City in Their Own Version of the Chicago Way - Chicago Tribune,” Chicago Tribune, May 22, 2016, https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-cell-at-25-haugh-spt-0522-20160521-column.html; Michael Martinez and Special To the New York Times, “White Sox Are Safe at Home,” The New York Times, July 2, 1988, sec. Sports, https://www.nytimes.com/1988/07/02/sports/white-sox-are-safe-at-home.html; Eric Okurowski, “StadiumPage.Com - Unrealized Concepts,” Stadium Page, 2012, http://www.stadiumpage.com/concepts/index.html; Marc Topkin, “From White Sox to Giants to Devil Rays, It’s Been a Long Trip - How the Team Was Won,” Tampa Bay Times, March 31, 1998, sec. Sports. 2 Andelman and Parsells, Stadium For Rent, 12-34; Haugh, "White Sox Saved for City in Their Own Version of the Chicago Way;" Martinez and Special To the New York Times, “White Sox Are Safe at Home." 3 Haugh, "White Sox Saved for City in Their Own Version of the Chicago Way." 4 Andelman and Parsells, Stadium For Rent, 19. P.S. I've made high-resolution versions of the t-shirt script, for posterity's sake/removing the logo from the rabbit hole. It's not the best recreation (I'm sure somebody could make it smoother), but it's better than low-res renderings and t-shirt photos. Also, I’d like to give a big shout-out to @raysox for workshopping the design with me. Thanks, man!
  25. No idea, maybe it was a 1970s colloquialism that faded out after the early-‘80s. It’s why Bruce Banner was named “David Banner” in the Bill Bixby/Lou Ferigno series. Bucco Bruce is only kind of camp. He’s on the same level as ‘70s Kraven the Hunter: Give him a similar makeover to one of the ones Kraven had and you’d be good.