SFGiants58

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Everything posted by SFGiants58

  1. SFGiants58

    MLB changes 2018?

    Thome said it’s what he wanted. I’ll take his word that he didn’t want the vocal anti-Wahoo crowd on his case.
  2. SFGiants58

    Canucks Bringing Back the Flying Skate Uniforms in 2020

    I just want to see the Canucks’ old yellows playing the Sharks in green or light teal Seals-style throwbacks.
  3. Welcome to MLB: The Defunct Series! After spending last year producing Project 32’s myriad of redesigns and tweaks, I figured that I should apply the same philosophy to the defunct teams of the majors. Much like its predecessor, each team will have two to three parts. The first part will be the main concept, the one that I’m happiest with presenting/matches the historical trajectory of the team’s aesthetics. The other will be an alternate take, in which I can explore different identities and shirk brand equity to have a little fun. I’ve also got plans to include several attempted relocations, with a focus on deals that fell through at the last minute/pose the most visual interest. These will not have alternate takes since they are essentially alternate takes in their own right. The releases will go by chronology, starting with the Boston Braves. The only one out of order is the last one since the short lifespan of the said team leaves their visual history up for more speculation. TEAMS Boston Braves (Boston Beacons) Houston/Milwaukee Cardinals St. Louis Browns (Updated) (Oriole-ized) (Updated) Milwaukee Brewers - former St. Louis Browns (Updated) (Project 32 Style) Philadelphia Athletics (The Charlie O Touch) (Mini-Update) New York Giants (Updated) (New York Gothams) (Update and Mets Variants) Minneapolis Giants, Twin Cities Giants, and Minnesota Giants Brooklyn Dodgers (Updated "Brooklyn" script) (Brooklyn Canaries w/ Los Angeles Canaries modification) Washington Senators/Washington Nationals (Nationals Update - new primary) (Twins-style Senators/Nationals) Los Angeles Angels - former Washington Sens/Nats or expansion team (Updated) San Francisco Seals - former Washington Sens/Nats or expansion team/s Los Angeles Athletics (Update) Dallas Athletics (Update) Louisville Athletics (Elephant Jersey) Milwaukee Braves
  4. SFGiants58

    MLB changes 2018?

    I’d hardly say that it’s stupid. It’s the logo of the team most commonly identified with his career, and it removes any ambiguity about Wahoo “maybe” being on his cap. Doing something like a blank cap or a “can’t see the front” plaque could lead people to accuse him of being pro-Wahoo or anti-Cleveland for not acknowledging the team on his plaque. It’s also in Cleveland’s best interests to not have Wahoo in such a prominent place. It eases the phase-out. This also means that (maybe) Kenny Lofton and Omar Visquel will have blank caps or the “Cursive I.”
  5. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Milwaukee Braves Added (August 13)

    Thanks! It took a while to get it "just right." I think I'm getting the hang of the "script construction" thing. The elephant doesn't look too bad on a green jersey: Thanks, guys! Indeed I am! They'll be the finale, because their "one and done" status means I can have a bit more fun with them. In their chronological place, I'll mock up the three Brewers prototypes from 1970. Thanks! I'm surprised Louisville didn't come up in expansion/relocation talks more often. I guess that part of is that having a team in Louisville would impact the radio/TV territory rights of the Reds, Cardinals, and both Chicago teams. I think that it might have been a success, but we can never really know. Thanks! While I put the elephant on the green (due to the red body cover on the elephant), it still makes for a fun jersey. I'm not really planning on doing any significant color changes for any A's relocations, especially since they will have all come after the "Swingin' A's" dynasty of the 1970s. The only real shift in colors I'll do is for Kansas City, if only because my scenario has Ewing Kauffman buying the team from Charlie O. Finley in the late-1960s and dropping Finley's trademark green/yellow. Anyway, it's time to join the Brave and the Bold! MILWAUKEE BRAVES, PT. I - Braving the Storm One of the more frustrating relocations in baseball history has to be the Braves vacating Milwaukee in favor of Atlanta. If one wonders why they left, here's the basic plot: 1. Lou Perini sells the team to a Chicago-based conglomerate, led by Bill Bartholomay, that pretty much intended to move the team to a bigger TV/population market. This was pretty much their intention from the start of buying the team. 2. Perini did some small things that were a bit off-putting, such as denying fans the ability to bring their own beer (mostly a BS reason, but a slight contributing factor) and raising ticket prices. 3. Perini and the Bartholomay group overreacted to attendance/profitability declines, which were in part due to trends throughout baseball and in part due to the team's perceived competitive decline (despite having a winning record in all of their Milwaukee seasons). In other words, ...except the Braves didn't really get that in Atlanta. Even with TBS giving them a big sphere of influence, Atlanta's f'ed up urban planning and other factors contributed to poor attendance, leading to their white flight to Cobb County. This information all comes from this excellent article by J. Gordon Hylton of the Marquette University Law School (the newer building on campus, right next to the interchange and behind Sensenbrenner Hall).1 The article and comments point out several way the relocation could have been averted, which include: 1. Perini sold the team to a Milwaukee group, with Bud Selig maybe being a member of an ownership consortium. 2. Perini keeps the now-unprofitable team, but manages to turn things around until the late-60s/early-70s run of contention. 3. Fred Miller doesn't die, and winds up buying the team. 4. The consortium stays in Milwaukee, bolstered by a piece of legislature. In his article, Hylton describes, "In 1965, as a last ditch effort, Wisconsin Senator William Proxmire introduced a bill in the Senate that would have required major league teams to pool all of their radio and television income in a way similar to the then current practice in the National Football League. The bill never got out of committee in the United States Senate, but such a requirement might have reduced the lure of relocating to new territory and perhaps kept the Braves in Milwaukee."2 If any one of these things happened, what would the modern Braves look like? This is pretty much a standard Braves concept (a slight tweak of their 1987 update), but with a few notable alterations. The primary logo is now the roundel, featuring the Wisconsin state outline, the "Block M," and a star pointing to Milwaukee's location. I figured that the team, like the Brewers, would use the Miller Valley location/I-94 proximity to lure people in throughout the state. People from places like Madison, Door County, Green Bay, and Shawono County would all be part of the team's net. A new "Block M' is the secondary, derived from the American Association Brewers' old monogram and given angled serifs akin to the Astros' slab-serif font. I figured that unlike the Atlanta Braves' 1987 update (which merged their last Boston/first Milwaukee uniforms with the cursive "A" cap), the Milwaukee Braves would have gone all-in on a logo similar to the 1957-style "Block M," (thanks @Gothamite, for championing the "correct Block M" cause) with a few adjustments to make it a bit more "modern." They did win a World Series in it, after all. The "Braves" script with a contrast-colored tomahawk is the tertiary. I did try to make a "Cursive M" for the team, but it really didn't look all that good from a distance. Unlike the "B" or the "A," it didn't read like an "M." Besides, I didn't want to throw out a link to the American Association Brewers/the '57 Braves that readily. The home and road uniforms feature all of my standard Braves trademarks, such as contrast-colored tomahawks and Northwestern Stripes on the socks. The road uniform bears a "Milwaukee" script with an extended tomahawk, inspired by @Ted Cunningham's work. It was a bit of a pain to get it to work, but I think it looks good. At the very least, it's a nice way to eliminate the team from the relocation roundelay. The Wilson Varsity font also receives a Packers-style "5," for that extra Wisconsin touch. The alternates feature a red and a navy softball top, intended for limited use. Both use color swaps to preserve the contrast-colored tomahawk setup, and feature the primary on the sleeves. The heritage alternates feature a "Cream City" uniform, with the "Block M" on its own. It's my little way of paying homage to the American Association Brewers' 1911-37 identity. The second one is a Milwaukee-ified version of the Braves' "715" set. I wanted to use a lowercase cursive "M" at first (which really didn't work), so I replaced it with (per @NicDB's inspired suggestion, thanks) the Ball-in-Glove. I double-outlined it and matched it to the coloration of the Braves' "lowercase a" insignia. The dugout jackets feature some notable tweaks from previous Braves concepts, such as the use of the primary as the back logo (a la a motorcycle jacket, and Milwaukee is the home of Harley-Davidson, a brand that is somehow both "the establishment" and "rebellious," an RCR observation). There is also a "715" jacket, which builds upon the period jacket (worn by Phil Niekro). The Braves wouldn't look all that different from their current counterparts, but there'd be a certain "Milwaukee-ifying" of their identity. Heck, had they stayed, they'd probably have more of an impact on the city's sporting culture than the Brewers. C+C is appreciated, as always! For the alternate take, lets brew up two distinct flavors of rebranding. 1J. Gordon Hylton, “Why Milwaukee Lost the Braves: Perspectives on Law and Culture From a Half-Century Later – Marquette University Law School Faculty Blog,” Academic Blog, Marquette University Law School Faculty Blog (blog), January 1, 2012, https://law.marquette.edu/facultyblog/2012/01/01/why-milwaukee-lost-the-braves-perspectives-on-law-and-culture-from-a-half-century-later/comment-page-1/#comments. 2Ibid.
  6. SFGiants58

    Football and CTE

    Sure, it’s feeble, but I’m half-adding it. I also don’t believe in “kill football,” if you thought I did. Also, bringing up my home town’s name has a nice layer of passive-aggressiveness to it. There are are other outlets for physicality, like other sports, hiking/walking, etc.. Also, are you implying that I don’t understand the basic biological/physiological differences between genders? If so, I think I can see you angle. You can learn that from any sport or academics. Sure, toxic masculinity happens in any sport, and the “bad ones” get media preference. Also, when you try to demean your “opposition” as “23 year old blogger in a cubicle” or “parent’s basement,” you’re just using poor rhetoric. I know I won’t change your mind, and that you won’t change mine or many of the other posters’ minds. Quite frankly, this has gotten boring.
  7. SFGiants58

    College Football uniforms- 2018

    Oh, I’m fully aware that it’s a broad brush, and I’m also well aware of what Lee did after the war. He still fought for the Confederacy and what they stood for (the preservation of slavery). He’s the “get out of jail free card” that Lost Cause-ers point to make it look like they’re not honoring the Confederates’ pro-slavery attitude. When “the South will rise again” is a popular statement, when Confederate flags still fly far too often, and overt and casual racism thrives (be it violence or subtle discriminatory attitudes), it is best to suppress any Confederate imagery.
  8. SFGiants58

    College Football uniforms- 2018

    You do realize there's another prominent member of The Alliance to Restore the Republic who looks a hell of a lot like Colonel Reb, right? General Jan Dodonna, seen here with Princess Leia and Creepio (the droid who was promised flesh).
  9. SFGiants58

    Football and CTE

    I’m just disappointed that he didn’t take the hegemonic masculinity/hypermasculinity train of thought from my post. I’d like to see a rebuttal about how football provides a healthy idea about manliness, which obviously includes brutish competitiveness, covering for your bros despite evidence against them, and trying to suppress any semblance of weakness and softness from the psyche (to the detriment of emotional balance, I might add). Like @dfwabel, @Gothamite, and @rams80 have pointed out, football culture (especially at high school/college levels) can be exceptionally toxic to healthy emotional development.
  10. SFGiants58

    College Football uniforms- 2018

    That’s a bad analogy. Colonel Sanders was a fast food magnate who only held the title because the state of Kentucky handed it to him. Colonel Reb is a representation of a Confederate officer, and it’s kind of an appallingly bad idea to show anybody from the Confederacy in a positive light. It’s not “political correctness” to disown pro-Confederate (read: fighting to preserve slavery) symbols and imagery, it’s basic human decency. The “Lost Cause” mentality is stupid.
  11. SF Giants (NL West): Padres. I obviously don’t like the Dodgers one bit. The Diamondbacks are annoyingly good at beating the Giants (I don’t think I dislike a player as much as Paul Goldschmidt). The Rockies have an ugly color scheme and a stadium that constantly gives my team woes, so all that’s left is the Padres. They’re rarely a consistent threat, have a nice stadium, and have a bland/forgettable look. Besides, they’re Bochy’s old team and we kind of owe them for their 2010 collapse. Brewers (NL Central): Cubs/Pirates tie. The fans of theirs I’ve met are all pretty cool people, and I like their uniforms and stadiums. The Reds bother me because of their uniforms and for blowing the career of Joey Votto, while the Cardinals are the Cardinals. I lost all respect for the latter organization after the Oscar Taveras memorial patch and Mike Mattheny’s “Christians’ Day.” Sharks: LA Kings. Hear me out, I like this team because I like black/silver and because of the reverse sweep. They delightfully punched the Sharks in the gut, knocking the fanbase down a peg and legitimizing my negative feelings towards Thornton and the majority of the team. Warriors: Suns (I like purple/orange) Timbers (I did undergrad in Portland): Colorado, becausethe colors are fantastic. I don’t like the original Quakes or the Fake-Quakes. I don’t really watch enough American Football to say I’m a fan of any team.
  12. SFGiants58

    Popular Defunct Teams

    At the very least, I have some confidence that the Whalers MK II would be a success. Not an amazing amount, but some. Somehow, we’ve made it this long without bringing up Les Expos. They’ve become fairly popular these past few years, even though I doubt how successful they’d be as an expansion market. Sure, MLB did them dirty, but so did the Separatists, the city of Montréal (Le Stade Olympique/Éléphant Blanc), and the Blue Jays (claiming all of Southern Ontario). Fate didn’t work in their favor, and I’m not sure a new team would have more fortune (save for a VGK-level expansion draft).
  13. SFGiants58

    Football and CTE

    Translation: the pussies, sissies, and wussies want to kill my football! Football is a manly sport for real men who make for a strong, un-f----ty society! Who cares what studies say that clearly have an agenda to kill football, this magical man-making experience? You may try to couch your argument in your misinterpretation of a study or this "positive force" dogma, but you're not convincing anybody here.
  14. SFGiants58

    Forgotten classic uniforms

    Yeah, I really like those uniforms. The team really should have kept them on as permanent throwbacks after having them as full-time alts in 2012. I like that it’s closer to their “primary” branding.
  15. SFGiants58

    North American Pro Soccer 2018

    That looks like the kind of guy whose best college memory was hazing new members of his frat, all the while desperately dodging academic probation.
  16. SFGiants58

    Logo/Uniform Soft Spot

    Patterned trim is a big plus for me:
  17. SFGiants58

    MLB Unveils Uniforms for 2018 Players Weekend

    The jerseys are decent enough, but the hats barely feature any contrast. Pittsburgh, Oakland, San Diego, and Philadelphia are the best of the bunch. That Mariners uniform: The hat has a barely-visible logo, the blue and teal shades have limited contrast, and the straight wordmark doesn’t belong on a jersey. It’s a nasty mess.
  18. SFGiants58

    Forgotten classic uniforms

    I do kind of like them (especially when paired with sock stripes), but the overall look is fairly bland. Navy/red, basic scripts, a “C” insignia that looks more like an “e,” and no striping leaves it lacking. It’s like the Tampa Bay Lightning in a way, decent-looking but lacking originality. I will say that I’d love it if that “White Sox” script appeared on an alternate jersey or a dugout jacket (like the Yankees’ script). If you want a “forgotten classic” White Sox uniform, I have two: As for the Patriots, I must argue that the 1993 Flying Elvis uniform was top-notch, if only for the pants stripe that tied into the logo: Fix the TV numbers and add a red facemask (to go with the numbers), and you’d have a killer look.
  19. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Milwaukee Braves Added (August 13)

    Thanks, guys! It totally sounded crazy to me as well. From my research, it seems that the A's would have rebranded as the White Sox and the original White Sox would have adopted a new identity. Since only one source mentioned it (an SB Nation article that hinted at a Chicago Tribune quote), I decided that the AL would have objected to that idea. Both teams had well-established brands, and a silly branding shake-up wasn't really an MLB policy at the time. So, the Seattle White Sox and Chicago Athletics will emerge! I've added these moves to the queue. As far as I'm aware, there was no evidence of other cities before Milwaukee (since the Braves had the territory rights to the area). I considered doing something for the Browns, but it was so far-fetched for the time (only one team on the west coast, for a sport played more frequently than football) that I tossed it out. I'd just use my AL Angels concept as a placeholder for the team. Anyway, onward to one of the few cities in this series to not have a major league team! LOUISVILLE ATHLETICS - Bourbon Beauty After getting egg in his face over Dallas, Charlie O. Finley set his eyes on the open territory of Louisville, Kentucky in 1964. He went so far as to negotiate with the city about expanding the rinky-dink Fairgrounds Stadium to over 30,000 seats and plan out profit division for the venue.1 However, the AL once again told Finley that he couldn't move the team and that he had to resume the increasingly toxic lease negotiations with Kansas City. In other words, imagine the A's are Deandra Reynolds and the AL ownership is the car: However, what if his move went through? What if Charlie O. managed to restore major league baseball to Louisville? For this one, I decided that while Charlie O. would have had the Kelly Green/Fort Knox Gold A's settle in Fairgrounds Stadium, various factors would lead to him selling the team by 1981. At that point, a local ownership group would try to put their stamp on the team. These new executives would want to "localize" the team a bit more and appeal to the club's history. Kelly and yellow would give way to Forest Green and Red, while cursive scripts would return to the identity. Connie Mack's elephant would also come back, via an update of a 1930 press pin. The color change was an outgrowth of my experience in the city. My dad is from the area, so I saw plenty of the city and its architecture. While Forest Green was a fantastic fit (Churchill Downs Green), yellow didn't work as well. Red, due to all of the lovely brick buildings throughout the city (and UofL) felt like a better match. Also, I really wanted to mix up the myriad of A's concepts in this series. Green/yellow gets boring after a while. The modified 1930 press pin elephant (with the A's emblem) features in a diamond, with Fleur De Lis' taking the place of bases (save for home plate) and the George Rogers Clark Memorial Bridge at the bottom of the diamond. In a city famed for its bridges, this is my favorite of the bunch. This is partially due to my family ties to Jeffersonville and partially because I'm a sucker for a good cantilever design. The logo text uses Batesina Athletica, and highlights a 1901 founding date (franchise over city). The elephant alone is the tertiary. The home and road set are a modification of my Expos design (for number font and sleeve striping), since the city's semi-French connections (named after Louis XVI by George Rogers Clark) permitted them. The current "Athletics" script returns, with a matching "Louisville" wordmark. The cap logos now have a faint red outline, while the hats also gain red bills (justified by the red in the primary logo and front numbers). The primary is on the sleeves. The sock stripes use a double w/r/w design. The alternates include a red top with a matching cap. Said headwear has a red crown and green bill, with an Old English L, done up to not look like UofL's design. Both alternates feature the "A's" insignia, as an homage to Charlie O. and Connie Mack's designs. The throwbacks reference the history of both the city and franchise. The first uniform is a Louisville Colonels-inspired design, with the FDL striping on a design that mimics the 1960, 1938, and 1927 designs. The "L" takes center stage, while the full elephant features on the sleeve. The socks are Red Sox-style, as an homage to the many years the city housed a Red Sox affiliate. The other one is my 1930 A's throwback, albeit with a different number font and a blue/white version of the updated 1930 elephant. The dugout jackets make full use of their respective color schemes, with the primary version using the "Louisville" script (for a bit of variety). This one really let me mix things up with the team without going too far. While I'm not sure Louisville would ever work as a major league city, I'd like to think that this concept demonstrates how it could have looked fantastic. C+C is appreciated, as always! Next up, we head to the Miller Valley! 1John E. Peterson, The Kansas City Athletics: A Baseball History, 1954–1967 (Jefferson, N.C.: McFarland, 2012), 184.
  20. SFGiants58

    NHL 2018-19

    I’d love to finally have high-resolution digital images of the Flying V set. You can only get so much out of high-ISO color photographs taken in crummy lighting conditions.
  21. SFGiants58

    Popular Defunct Teams

    Quoting myself, The Bees were the longest-lasting replacement for the Braves name, coming about as a result of team president Bob Quinn holding a renaming contest (won by Arthur J. Rockwood). When the Bees name failed to produce a winner, the team-owning syndicate opted to switch the name back to Braves. It also had a legit color change coincide with it (shifting from red-dominant to blue-yellow for three years).
  22. SFGiants58

    MLB changes 2018?

    Why no love for the cool statues on Hope Memorial Bridge (near The Jake), the Guardians of Traffic? That could make for an excellent ASG logo.
  23. SFGiants58

    Non-sports logos that could be good sports logos?

    Milwaukee Electric Tool Corporation has a good case.
  24. SFGiants58

    Popular Defunct Teams

    This is true. I see plenty of Braves caps in Milwaukee, and there’s a definite degree of nostalgia for them. It’s why the Brewers playing in the NL doesn’t bother me. What I find kind of surprising is that the Philadelphia A’s don’t seem to be all that popular in vintage merchandise and public memory. Given their successes, there has to be some market for it, right? My guess is that the A’s 1970s dynasty and the Phillies getting their crap together in the late-1940s (as Connie Mack went super senile) hurt the Philly A’s long-term.
  25. You guys have done an excellent job wrapping up the series. Puerto Rico, South Africa, South Korea, and Spain all feature inspired uses of their respective color schemes and wordmarks. The Puerto Rco updates, South Africa’s alternates, South Korea’s home/updated road uniforms, and Spain’s whole set (those raglan stripes!) are especially fantastic. I have no substantial nitpicks for any of them. Your US updates are fantastic as well. I prefer navy-centric, but that’s just me. This is has been an excellent series to follow. Good work, guys!