SFGiants58

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Everything posted by SFGiants58

  1. SFGiants58

    2019 MLB Changes

    I agree. This also depends on what colors they'll use in conjunction with it. If it's light blue/black/silver or light blue/silver/tiny bits of black, then I'm OK with it. If it's just taking the current look and exchanging orange for light blue with black still being the domineering color, no thanks.
  2. Welcome to MLB: The Defunct Series! After spending last year producing Project 32’s myriad of redesigns and tweaks, I figured that I should apply the same philosophy to the defunct teams of the majors. Much like its predecessor, each team will have two to three parts. The first part will be the main concept, the one that I’m happiest with presenting/matches the historical trajectory of the team’s aesthetics. The other will be an alternate take, in which I can explore different identities and shirk brand equity to have a little fun. I’ve also got plans to include several attempted relocations, with a focus on deals that fell through at the last minute/pose the most visual interest. These will not have alternate takes since they are essentially alternate takes in their own right. The releases will go by chronology, starting with the Boston Braves. The only one out of order is the last one since the short lifespan of the said team leaves their visual history up for more speculation. TEAMS Boston Braves (Boston Beacons) Houston/Milwaukee Cardinals St. Louis Browns (Updated) (Oriole-ized) (Updated) Milwaukee Brewers - former St. Louis Browns (Updated) (Project 32 Style) Philadelphia Athletics (The Charlie O Touch) (Mini-Update) New York Giants (Updated) (New York Gothams) (Update and Mets Variants) Minneapolis Giants, Twin Cities Giants, and Minnesota Giants Brooklyn Dodgers (Updated "Brooklyn" script) (Brooklyn Canaries w/ Los Angeles Canaries modification) Washington Senators/Washington Nationals (Nationals Update - new primary) (Twins-style Senators/Nationals) Los Angeles Angels - former Washington Sens/Nats or expansion team (Updated) San Francisco Seals - former Washington Sens/Nats or expansion team/s Los Angeles Athletics (Update) Dallas Athletics (Update) Louisville Athletics (Elephant Jersey) Milwaukee Braves (Update Explanation) (Milwaukee Brewers I and Milwaukee Brewers II) Atlanta Athletics, Milwaukee Athletics (Milwaukee update explanation) Seattle Athletics (green/yellow and green/white) San Diego Athletics Kansas City Athletics (Update Explanation) (Kansas City Blues - Update) (Kansas City Monarchs) Milwaukee White Sox (Update Comparison & New Home Uniform Explanation) Milwaukee Brewers Prototypes Washington Senators II (1990s redesign) Washington Nationals (Ex-San Diego Padres) Chicago Athletics and Seattle White Sox Toronto Giants
  3. SFGiants58

    2018 NFL Season

    Counterpoint: When Andy Reid loses, America wins.
  4. SFGiants58

    NFL 2018 changes

    Not really. Everything exists within a historical context, which we need to properly judge a work. Is it in line with their old identity? Is it worthwhile to break free from old patterns? Sure, you can judge it on its own (it’s slightly above average, IMO), but context is needed to get a better understanding of its place in team history and what it means to the franchise’s aesthetics. Also, can fans of the new Jags look not talk down to people who don’t like it? Just a thought.
  5. SFGiants58

    NFL 2018 changes

    You’re missing a big factor: context. The Raiders’ identity and uniforms have been their look for over 50 years, with their pre-black/silver looks limited to a few years in the AFL. The Jaguars’ redesign is the latest in a series of redesigns for them, with many of them incorporating stripes, gold, multiple outlines, and other features. Going in such a plain direction is part of why their reception has been mixed on the board and (I presume) among fans. I hate the cliché of “if it came out today, x would have said y.” It negates the context of the original design and the context of any modern redesigns.
  6. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Toronto Giants Added

    Thanks! It was a bit tough trying to get the drop shadow just right, especially on the "WashingtoN" wordmark. I'm sure something like that was a consideration during the branding process, along w/ Todd Radom's successful design (minus his "bevel block W," because Bud/the city fathers preferred the Cooperstown Collection red cap with the Curly W. It must be odd to have such a hard-on for one winning season amidst a pile of refuse. Thank you. I really liked designing the new "Sox" logo and repurposing the font. New Historicism is a good way to explain the philosophy here, with certain designs emerging through a specific set of historical circumstances at different times. I've corrected the logo sheet on the Chicago A's, as the off-white outline was an error. Thanks! I can see why the "Sox" logo would be a little odd, but I'm not about to use the throwback on the main design. They don't gel well together. It's time for a slightly upsetting relocation for me! TORONTO GIANTS - Penumbra for my pain This one is doubly awful for me. It not only involves my hometown team moving, but it would also mean that one of my favorite identities in sports, the modern Blue Jays, wouldn't exist. Putting aside my feelings, let's see how it'd turn out! The year is 1975. Toronto was looking to enter into MLB, with fellows like Toronto Chairman Paul Godfrey and Labatt Breweries' Don McDougall leading the campaign.1 This group reached out to the San Francisco Giants, who had fallen on hard times following the success of the 1960s. Candlestick Park's many problems were rearing their ugly head, attendance and team performance declined, and owner Horace Stoneham was losing considerable amounts of cash.2 The Toronto group made an offer in early 1976 to Stoneham's National Exhibition Company for $13,250,000, $8 million for the team and $5.25 to cover the Candlestick lease. However, new SF mayor George Moscone asked for a temporary injunction to stop the sale, allowing a local ownership group led by Bob Lurie (and temporarily featuring Bob Short of the Sens/Rangers) to buy the team for $8 million at the deadline. The NL approved the deal and the Giants stayed put.3 The Labatt group would eventually get the Blue Jays from the AL expansion later that year. However, what if the injunction failed/wasn't asked for, and the sale went through? I figured that the Giants' status as a "legacy franchise" and their relatively consistent visual identity since the 1930s/40s would keep the name and color scheme around. They would experiment with a prototype in royal/kelly and a "TG" logo (as well as black/orange "G" cap, mimicking the 1977-82 cap logo font), but would settle on merely tweaking the 1975 uniform set. The team would probably undergo several tweaks/redesigns over the years, resulting in something that blended bits of the current Blue Jays and SF Giants' identities. The font follows @the admiral's suggestion of using the Blue Jays' Penumbra Half Serif Bold as a universal Toronto font, as it carries some of the geometric features of the Leafs' old Kabel font and the Jays' original design. I modified the "T" to match the Jays' wordmarks. Black/orange remains as the color scheme, with no creme/off-white (doesn't work at the Skydome). The primary logo is a roundel, featuring the cap logo and the double stripe. Said cap logo places an uppercase T in front of the 1967 Maple Leafs' logo, modernizing the International League Maple Leafs' cap insignia. The tertiary combines the leaf with the team script and the 1976 founding date. The home and road uniforms are the perfect blend of both Giants and Jays, with the Jays' knit trim and Penumbra font rendered in the Giants' black/orange colorway. The orange/black/orange stripe appears on the socks, while the primary occupies the sleeve. The number font is the Maple Leafs' 1967 throwback font, as I felt the Giants should stick with a simple varsity block design. The alternates include an orange and black jersey for home and road, respectively. The home alt features an orange-billed cap, while the road uses the tertiary as a sleeve patch. The second set of alternates includes a red/white Canada Day alternate for July 1 home games, as well as a "What If?" design of the 1976 rebrand. I opted to mimic the 1977 Blue Jays' home uniform template for this design while tracing William Henderson's recreation of the Giants' trashy 1983-99 number font for the uniforms. It worked well with the prototype's Helvetica Black wordmark. The jackets highlight the team's striping patterns, with the primary using contrast-stitched pockets (like my Blue Jays design in Project 32). While I find the idea of the Toronto Giants to be an affront on several levels, I still think that the team could have emerged with an excellent design that reflected their new location. Heck, the existence of an NL team in Toronto may have prolonged the Expos' existence or ensured a different outcome for the AL's Seattle problem/1977 expansion partner. This won't be the last time we see the Giants here, as Labatt's Doug McDougall said: We'll see how that plays out shortly. Addendum: I've used this screencap from the documentary What If: The Unlikely Story of Toronto's Baseball Giants and assorted images (liked in my explanation/mini-report above) to trace the prototype logo, complete with estimate Pantone values: Click the image for a high-resolution version. I wanted to get the logo out there in the digital space, so it's a bit less rabbit hole-y to find it. Also, I can't recommend the What If documentary enough. It's got some fantastic interviews with a lot of the figures involved in the attempted relocation/founding of the Blue Jays. You can find it on Vimeo to rent/buy. Addendum #2: I figured I'd take Admiral's lead and do a Penumbra-fied version of both the Maple Leafs and Raptors/Huskies (blue/white and purple/red - my preferred look for the team). It looks fantastic for the Leafs (especially with the '67-'70 design as a base), while performing pretty decently for the Raptors and Huskies. If you think I'm testing the waters for an NHL series, you'd be right. C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, it's the first in a trilogy of last stands for Charlie O! 1 Dale Heslip, What If: The Unlikely Story of Toronto’s Baseball Giants, Documentary (Fadoo Productions, 2014), http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4363424/. 2 Robert F. Garratt, Home Team: The Turbulent History of the San Francisco Giants (Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 2017), 92-93. 3 Ibid, 97-105. 4 Paul Francis Sullivan, “The Franchise Moves That Almost Happened | The Hardball Times,” The Hardball Times, June 21, 2011, https://www.fangraphs.com/tht/the-franchise-moves-that-almost-happened/.
  7. Jeffress is doing his best Armando Benitez impression out there.
  8. SFGiants58

    NHL 2018-19

    They're serviceable. I still wish the team made a yellow version of this: It'd be a tie-in to the pre-black/yellow years and have a unique striping pattern. Besides, I love the scarf-ed version of the Skating Penguin.
  9. Wow, Brewers bullpen nearly crapped the bed there. That's going to be a problem.
  10. SFGiants58

    Trivia Question

    The 1976 Reds is the answer.
  11. SFGiants58

    The Oakland/Las Vegas/Where The Hell Are We? Raiders

    In all honesty, blowing an expansion slot on Jacksonville was a terrible idea. Trying to replicate Green Bay’s success as a small market without understanding the Packers’ specific circumstances (drawing on Milwaukee and the whole of Wisconsin as the state’s only team) led to a mess. If the NFL had given the expansion team to St. Louis, Baltimore, or Memphis/Nashville, a lot of later troubles could have been avoided.
  12. SFGiants58

    2019 MLB Changes

    Petcopark.ttf doesn't work in brown, sorry. It's meant to be a "surfer" font, which is why it only really looks vaguely decent in navy/sand: If you want a good brown Padres font, something a bit classier/more rustic would work. Examples include: It shouldn't be a kitschy 1970s font or a bland mid-00s typeset.
  13. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Toronto Giants Added

    Thanks! Sorry to keep you guys waiting. I think you'll like what's next. CHICAGO ATHLETICS & SEATTLE WHITE SOX - But I thought the double switch was an NL practice! This was one of the surprises in researching for this series. The year is 1975. John Allyn, the owner of the White Sox, was looking to sell the team. He planned to sell them to a Seattle-based ownership group, who would move the team to the near-complete Kingdome. As part of the deal, Charlie O. Finley would move the A's to Chicago to occupy Comiskey Park (the AL didn't want to abandon Chicago). However, the deal fell through when Bill Veeck came in and bought the White Sox from Allyn.1 However, what if the deal went through? The article I cited claimed the Athletics would adopt the White Sox MK II, while the White Sox MK I would adopt a new brand. However, I saw the AL stepping in to prevent the rebranding. The A's had just won three World Series (which makes their move seem weird, but again, Charlie O. was a douchecanoe of a medium order), so their brand would be too "hot" to throw away. While the White Sox may have changed their name upon moving, I couldn't see a legacy organization change names for no good reason.2 However, their branding would be somewhat different from the current Sox. I went with the assumption that the Jerry Reinsdorf would have bought the A's in the '80s and redesigned them with a more sedate/classy look in 1990/91 for the opening of New Comiskey. The Seattle White Sox would follow a similar branding course to the Mariners, with a purchase by Nintendo leading to a redesign in 1993 that incorporated teal and a "fancy" font (albeit with some adjustments for the Safeco Field move). Both teams would find success in these new designs and keep them around, akin to their modern counterparts. CHICAGO ATHLETICS I figured the best way to make the A's more classy/sedate would be to adopt a forest green/white color scheme and the elephant logo (from my Philly A's concept). The "apostrophe s" would leave the insignia, while the team name script would only appear in wordmark form (and on the jacket). Kelly/Yellow would be reserved for the throwback/"Halfway to St. Patrick's Day." Also, thanks to @coco1997 for pointing out the error in the original image. The creme outline on the wordmark is now white. I reasoned that the team would adopt dark green pinstripes, as a way to differentiate themselves from the Tigers. The road set features the White Sox's "Chicago " script, as I'm sure it would've turned up at some point. It also has thick knit trim, being an early-90s design. The numbers are all Block Standard, akin to the current team. The alts include a green softball top and a recreation of the 1975/76 uniforms (their first Chicago set). I thought it'd be weird to have a Philly A's set, if only because the White Sox and A's were rivals at that point. The home dugout jacket features the team name script, along with the elephant/road script on the back. The throwback jacket has striping that matches the jersey sleeves. SEATTLE WHITE SOX The primary logo is my attempt to merge the current "Sox" insignia with the modified version of Badger Light I used on my Project 32 Mariners concept. It's a good way to "Seattle-ify" their 1990 redesign. I also borrowed the teal shade from my Mariners design, pairing it with navy in a co-dominant color scheme. I also used the 1990-present sock logo as a secondary. A navy/kelly version of the Sox's 1976-90 primary logo is a throwback tertiary mark. I figured that the team would consult the same design firm they did in 1976, producing a similar design with the same overused to the point of irritation "modern" Eurostile Extended Black font. The uniforms combine several White Sox and Mariners traits. The "Sox" insignia is on the home uniform, while the arc-ed "Seattle" wordmark appears on the road uniform (the White Sox have rarely used arched wordmarks, preferring to put "Chicago" on an arc). Block Standard numbers and Rawlings Block NoB's appear on the set, along with the sock patch and simple placket trim. I opted to use teal bills on the cap, as I've always loved that Mariners cap. The socks are the same "dark upper, light middle, white lower" pattern I'm so fond of using on White Sox concepts. The alternates have a Mariners bent to them, with a teal jersey and a navy one. The navy jersey has an all-navy cap, as the jersey features only a tiny bit of teal. The second set of alts includes a teal-crowned cap and a Seattle-ified version of the "winning ugly" duds. I replaced the striping with a Northwestern Stripe pattern with navy and kelly, while also using a navy/white/kelly pattern on the collars and pants. There are now white socks with the sleeve/chest stripe on them, alongside green sanitaries and shoes. I figured that the modern look would be better suited for the Kingdome than Old Comiskey, while also fulfilling the whole "similar conclusion through different methods" philosophy of this thread. The jackets have a few fun features. The primaries have a "White Sox" wordmark and striped white sleeves, while the throwback has the "SOX batterman" on the chest. This was one of the stranger proposals I've encountered in the thread, but it produced some fun variations on classic designs and hybrids of early-1990s redesigns. I'm glad it didn't happen, but it was fascinating to see how both teams could have maintained the spirit of their identities while also incorporating local influences. C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, we've got a relocation I'm really glad didn't happen. 1 Rob Hart, “Switching Sox: When the A’s Almost Moved In,” South Side Sox, November 16, 2012, https://www.southsidesox.com/2012/11/16/3649842/switching-sox. 2 Author's Note: Cleveland and Atlanta have a case for name changes, thanks to MOD EDIT.
  14. SFGiants58

    infrared41's Best and Worst - NFL 2018 Week Five

    @Buc made the perfect update of the classic Bengals design. I like the sleeve/shoulder caps more than the UCLA stripes (as well as having shoulder numbers instead of sleeve digits), but if mitigates my issues with the current set.
  15. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Toronto Giants Added

    WASHINGTON NATIONALS (former San Diego Padres) - National Fatherhood This one was a bit of a rabbit hole to climb down, but it produced some fascinating results. It's been widely reported that the San Diego Padres almost moved to DC in the 1973-74 offseason. Owner C. Arnholt Smith was looking to sell the team due to financial struggles and in anticipation of the IRS charging him for tax fraud. Joseph Danzansky, President of Giant Foods, made an offer to buy the Padres for $12 million and move them to DC. The move was nearly successful, with the NL unanimously approving it and Topps designing their 1974 set with it in mind: The team even developed a road uniform that fit with the stylistic conventions of the early/mid-1970s while also replacing the brown & yellow banana set with a traditional navy & red:1 However, it was not meant to be, as the team would have to pay off the hefty amount of money left on their San Diego Stadium lease (15 years' worth).2 Couple that with an $84 million lawsuit from the city for breaking the said lease, and you've got a problem. The sale fell through, which allowed Ray "The Founder" Kroc to buy the Padres and keep them in San Diego. However, what if the relocation went through and Washington got a new team? How would their appearance change as they chased trends and updated their look upon moving to the Navy Yard Stadium? Going off of this Washington Post article from 2016, I figured that the most likely name for the team would have been "Nationals."3 I could only find one source for the "Stars" name that's been often reported by historians (based on a guess made by Ebbets Field Flannels' Jerry Cohen).4 Danzansky's son and Peter Bavasi cited the "Nationals" name as the leading candidate, so it seemed the best idea and more distinct than "Stars." Their colors would still be navy & red, and unlike the modern Padres, navy & red wouldn't be an issue. The basic structure of this design is that of the 2004-2011 San Diego Padres. with a few cues from the 2005-2010 Nationals thrown in. Drop shadow would only appear on white and grey backgrounds, with navy backgrounds featuring basic outlines (and some allusions to the shadow split in the star/letter design). The Astros' 2013-present block font is the base, as a modern block style that fits with the prototype and the modernish font I call Petcopark.ttf. The primary logo uses a home plate backing (Padres) with a new take on the three-star pattern of the DC flag. The secondary is my modernization/de-North Starized version of the prototype cap logo, while the tertiary is an update of a supposed Sen(ationals)itors design. The uniforms borrow from the Padres' 2004-2011 set, with some adaptations for navy/red. A cursive script is on the home uniform, complete with an inverted tail. I used the 2005-2009 Nats' arching pattern on the road uniform, which is my way of mimicking the bowtie wordmark. The numbers are double outlined block standard, a la the 1991-2003 Padres. I added a sock stripe pattern meant to mimic the asymmetrical pattern on the sleeves and pants (no red/navy touching). The navy alternate sheds the drop shadow and adds the tertiary patch, akin to the Padres' old navy alt. A fauxback to the 1974 uniforms is the second alt, with an appropriate cap and an adjustment to the sleeve patch. I based the script off of the 1974-77 home look, which fits well with the "cursive/fancy at home, block on road" pattern used by the Padres throughout their history. The primary dugout jacket features the cap logo on the front and the primary on the back (with the tertiary on the sleeve), while the fauxback utilizes the prototype's "Washington" wordmark. It was surprising how well the Padres' formula worked for the Nats. While I would never want the current team to adopt anything that resembled this set, I liked dissecting the 2004-2011 Padres' identity and figuring out what made it work. C+C is appreciated, as always! Up next, a funny little twist! 1 Author's Note: When we say we want the Padres to bring back brown & yellow, the 1972-73 banana peels aren't an option. 2 Credit to @bosrs1 in this CCSLC thread about the Washington Padres. 3 Jake Russell, “San Diego Padres Were Once so Close to Moving to D.C. They Had Uniforms and Everything - The Washington Post,” The Washington Post - D.C. Sports Bog, June 16, 2016, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-sports-bog/wp/2016/06/16/the-time-the-san-diego-padres-were-this-close-to-moving-to-d-c/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.12b3e5479833. 4 Jerry Cohen, “The Washington Padres? – RULE 19 BLOG,” Rule 19 Blog - Ebbets Field Flannels, accessed October 11, 2018, http://web.archive.org/web/20150309095357/http://www.rule19blog.com:80/?p=31.
  16. SFGiants58

    MLB: The Defunct Saga - Toronto Giants Added

    Hey guys, sorry about the hiatus. A mix of real-life and a bit of a creative burnout put the brakes on this series. Don't worry, a new entry is coming within the day! Thanks, guys! Why yest they do! The first option is a sedate version, while the second is a bit more "experimental" (e.g., sticking more to the spirit than the lazy click-n-fill common to the promotion). The font is Badloc, used by several of the TATC teams. I like it more than Serpentine. Thanks! I originally wanted to bring out a slate/black/bronze set, but I figured that the team wouldn't have changed their color scheme wholesale (being in a traditional baseball market). However, like the 1990s Rangers, redistribution of existing colors made more sense. Black drop shadow, while era-appropriate, looks like clown feces (like it did for the Rangers). Thank you. I had a lot of fun reconstructing the prototypes. Blue with yellow outlines on the road uniforms looks lovely, while also separating them from the Pilots a bit more. Thank you very much! Thanks. I doubt that Finley would have adopted the state name, since he's not naming the team after a state organization. He never tried to adopt a state name in his various moving proposals, so I ruled out that option. I also dislike state names, so I wouldn't have a team adopt one outside of certain circumstances (e.g., Minnesota teams and the upcoming Carolina Twins). I'll get around to the Texas Athletics at some point later in the series.
  17. SFGiants58

    2019 MLB Changes

    Oh, it wouldn’t be a permanent solution AT ALL. It’s a way to ease the transition away from the name and to brainstorm an appropriate replacement/focus group several options (logo variants/color scheme changes or redistribution/etc.).
  18. SFGiants58

    2019 MLB Changes

    Part of me wouldn’t mind Cleveland dropping the “Indians” script from their home uniform in favor of the “Cleveland” block wordmark. It doesn’t work well for the Texas Rangers, but it’d be effective for Cleveland (emphasizing city over controversial nickname/downplaying the nickname as much as possible). Dumping the navy jerseys would also be a good idea, if only because they’re associated with the team’s numerous choke jobs in the playoffs (the nineties teams, 2016, and 2017). I’d prefer a red jersey for them, with the city wordmark.
  19. Darling, the Red Sox last made the World Series in 2013 with a markedly different team. This decade, they’ve had: -one decent year (2010) -one spectacular collapse (2011) -three last-place finishes (2012, 2014, and 2015) -two first-round exits (2016 and 2017) October has been relatively Red Sox-free over the past decade. Besides, their playoff appearance number is not close to the Yankees’ number of appearances over the past two decades. I get that you don’t like Boston fans and media. Maybe you should do something about that.
  20. All that means is that we're spared an NLCS full of Judge-Altuve size comparisons. For that alone, I am thankful. Number 28 will have to wait, preferably until 2020. It'll be nice to have a Yankee-free decade in the World Series.
  21. SFGiants58

    2019 MLB Changes

    It’s been stated in this thread that brown is a package deal with yellow, so the former will come with the latter. I’d normally eviscerate this suggestion, but I can see your point. It’s partially a reaction to the trashing of the initial Petco Park set (the one with the khaki road set) in favor of the “navy only” look, with the dumping of navy/yellow only exacerbating the situation. The team’s decisions have invigorated the consistently-present pro-brown/yellow fans, with more joining their number. The 1998 look has some decent elements (the cap logo and the updated Swingin’ Friar), but navy/orange is already handled better by the Astros and Tigers (and Mets, just with royal instead of navy). It should stay as an alt for navy fans (e.g., @bosrs1 and those whose fondest memories of the team were in navy).
  22. SFGiants58

    infrared41's Best and Worst - NFL 2018 Week Five

    Also, that helmet was front-and-center for one of the most famous catches in Super Bowl history: Also, it has the same amount of titles associated with it as the GIANTS helmet, plus an additional Super Bowl appearance. The ship has sailed for dumping the current design.
  23. SFGiants58

    Forgotten Rivalries

    Reds-Dodgers was a big one when both teams were contenders and together in the NL West (because Chicago and St. Louis threw a hissy fit and became NL East teams). However, realignment and their respective mid-1990s doldrums squashed it.
  24. Do you think he’ll get the Mike Mattheny treatment, where management keeps him on for far too long due to playoff appearances and regular season success?
  25. SFGiants58

    The Oakland/Las Vegas/Where The Hell Are We? Raiders

    How about the Oakland Raiders of the Oakland neighborhood of Pittsburgh?