School Logo: Finalized(?), Logo Progression, August 25

[davidmiller5]

If you frequent these boards you might recognize me from my MLB Combination of Eras Thread and other projects, but for "real life" I teach high school classes and coach baseball at a small K-12 school. We are called the Rams, and this is our logo:

Yeah, yikes. My AD told me they found the logo on some embroidery website and paid $10 for unlimited use of it. Yes, we are operating on a very tight budget.

I asked if he would be interested in having me try to come up with a new logo, and he was interested. Our school colors are navy, white, and silver/gray. He also expressed interest in adding another supporting color, so I wanted to make a logo that could introduce another color. That being said, most of the t-shirts we have printed are single color, so I want a logo that looks good in one color on a solid background.

I wanted to keep the profile of the ram head rather than go with something completely different.

Anyhow, this is what I currently have:

Yes, I used the St. Louis Rams to help with this logo. Right now, I am afraid that it looks too close to their logo in some respects (especially the mouth, nose, and eye).

This is my first logo and first time using Illustrator to do more than get vectors recolored, tweaking of logos, etc., so I am learning as I go.

Here are some questions I have; I would love some feedback on what's working well and what could use some work yet.

1. I want to nail down head/horn shape first so that I can get a real outline down (right now it is just a stroke). I am happy with the shape of the head, but should I be? What about the horn: is it good or should I rework it?

2. I want some sort of detail/texture, but is what I have working? How can it be improved?

3. Do you have any good ideas of what to do with the mouth or eye to make it look a little less like St. Louis's logo?

4. Do you like the shape of the shading/alternate color? Should I add more shading (like around the jaw area)? In the end the light blue could end up becoming a different color, so I am most concerned right now with shape. We can work on color later. Obviously, if the eye shape changes, this shape will almost certainly change too.

5. Should I add an ear? Right now the top of the logo looks empty, but no ram head logo like this that I have found adds an ear. There has to be a reason for this. In my sketch I couldn't get anything down that I was happy with, but if the logo would be improved with it, I will see what I can do.

Obviously, if you have any comments or critiques on anything else, please let me know.

[TheNightOwl]

I'm fairly tired right now so this may or may not make sense. Try rotating your logo so the nose faces directly ahead instead of down. It would help your logo stand out a little more from St. Louis's logo. But great job on this it looks decent

[YelichGraphics]

the horn is kind of sloppy. the marks and the shape its self

[derschwigg]

For a first go, it's not bad. But, as others have mentioned, it's a bit too St. Louis Rams.

If I were you, I'd head over to dribbble and do a search on Rams. You might be able to pull some unique ideas together from what you find.

Maybe try sketching it out on paper to get the forms down a bit better, then try digitizing it?

[BrianVlietDesign]

This does look too similar to the St. Louis Rams. I suggest making the horns with a little more point, as well as changing the line pattern on the horn itself. Changing the structure of the head might also help differentiate it.

[ren69]

Hey David,

Good to see you trying your hand at logo design & using Illustrator. It does look too much like the rams logo, I would say use references of ram profile heads to create your own logo. Referencing official logos is fine but using parts of them will not go unnoticed. For the horns try using the circle tool to give you a smoother cleaner line and then you can offset it's path to give you the outline/thickness your looking for. Good luck, looking forward to seeing your updated version.

[davidmiller5]

Thanks to all for your comments. Derschwigg and ren, you are two of the best logo designers on these boards, so I am really glad you took time to give feedback. Thanks to the others as well. I'll go through your comments.

I'm fairly tired right now so this may or may not make sense. Try rotating your logo so the nose faces directly ahead instead of down. It would help your logo stand out a little more from St. Louis's logo. But great job on this it looks decent

I am wanting to keep the same perspective as our previous logo. This is an issue though; the logo has a similar perspective to St. Louis' logo, and I want to keep that perspective.

the horn is kind of sloppy. the marks and the shape its self

Fair enough. The more I look at the marks, the less I like them. I will go with a different look. [More on horn shape in a bit.]

For a first go, it's not bad. But, as others have mentioned, it's a bit too St. Louis Rams.

If I were you, I'd head over to dribbble and do a search on Rams. You might be able to pull some unique ideas together from what you find.

Maybe try sketching it out on paper to get the forms down a bit better, then try digitizing it?

Thanks for the suggestion on dribbble. I haven't heard of the site before (which says how little of an artist I have been), but it looks like it will be a very good resource for this project and for other potential future projects. I did look at some pictures of actual rams (bighorns) before, but I found more reference pictures that should help as well.

I did sketch it out on paper beforehand. That could be some of the reason for the sloppy horn shape. In your opinion, should I try another sketch or should I tweak what I have?

This does look too similar to the St. Louis Rams. I suggest making the horns with a little more point, as well as changing the line pattern on the horn itself. Changing the structure of the head might also help differentiate it.

St. Louis' horn has the point, so I am differentiating by lessening the curl and point of the horn. In addition to making it different from St. Louis's, I have two other reasons for doing this: first, it is more anatomically correct--most bighorns don't have another curl to the horn--and secondly, I am hoping to use the horn in some other logos and wordmarks. For those it will work better without the extra curl.

Hey David,

Good to see you trying your hand at logo design & using Illustrator. It does look too much like the rams logo, I would say use references of ram profile heads to create your own logo. Referencing official logos is fine but using parts of them will not go unnoticed. For the horns try using the circle tool to give you a smoother cleaner line and then you can offset it's path to give you the outline/thickness your looking for. Good luck, looking forward to seeing your updated version.

Thanks for the tip on using the circle tool to get a smooth horn. I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you say "offset it's path to give you the outline/thickness you're looking for." Could you clarify that? I can also look it up if it isn't easy to explain.

I will go back and study ram heads more carefully and see if that can lead to a different head shape. I do want to keep the same side profile view and the same basic angle as our current logo to make this more of an update than a complete and total redesign. I also want to keep a white outline around the face so that it can work well as a one-color logo. These facts will keep it somewhat similar to St. Louis' logo, but I hope that I can do enough to clearly differentiate it from their logo.

I am really looking forward to keeping on working on this logo, but unfortunately this week is very busy for me at school. Grades need to be in by the end of the week and there is a lot of work to be done between now and then. I hope to work on it this weekend though. In the meantime, feel free to leave more comments or criticism.

[derschwigg]

I did sketch it out on paper beforehand. That could be some of the reason for the sloppy horn shape. In your opinion, should I try another sketch or should I tweak what I have?

I'd do both - you're early enough in the process where you can still try new things and then pick what you like best.

[ren69]

Offset path is just like adding a stroke but unlike the stroke when you use the offset path it will not reduce the size of your object. Open up Illustrator & draw 2 circles the same size then add a stroke to one & do the offset path to the other. The offset path can be found on your toolbar under object/path/offset. When box appears enter 0.2 as your sample then up the stroke size on the other circle to match it & you'll see what I'm talking about. Hope that doesn't sound confusing.

[davidmiller5]

Ren, thanks for the tip with offset path. It's really helpful.

So I decided to go in a different direction and do a completely new ram head.

I decided I wanted to try to design a logo could I could add a body to for a secondary logo. Naturally, I would want that pose to be jumping and ramming. I found a shot and used it as a reference picture for my new logo attempt.

Interestingly, the ram's head looks much narrower when it is butting heads. Please note that I'm not finished with what I have. I just am not sure if I like it enough to even spend any more time on. It looks odd when you detach the body and only have a ram head in this position.

It definitely loses some of its St. Louis Rams similarities, but I'm not not sure I'm liking this logo very much. While I had it, I at least tried to rotate it to the same angle as our previous logo and then I also rotated it 90º to see how that looked.

So what I want to know is whether I should keep working with this logo or go in a different direction. What are your thoughts about the different angles. If you think the logo is salvageable, what should I do to make it better? I'm especially thinking about head shape. But if you have shading suggestions, etc. feel free to let me know. I know I want to add some texture to the horns. I think what I am planning on adding will look quite a bit better than my first attempt.

[hugevolsfan]

One thing you need to do if you want to go with the lowering of the head is add a neck to balance the logo right now it looks off balance.

I would sharpen up the lines on the horn even though they are not that way in real life.

The ear looks funny right now cant put my finger on it but the light blue looks out of place as well.

[davidmiller5]

Here is version 2. Again, I would love C&C.

I widened face by making the jaw look more like rams do when they aren't butting one another, and I also added detail to the horn.

I would like to get some more feedback before I implement many more changes. These are some questions that I have about the logo; address them or anything else you think needs work:

What should I do with the angle of the ram (see above post)?

Does the horn need to be sharpened?

What is wrong with the ear?

Should I get rid of the back horn?

How can I make it look more fierce?

What other areas of shading should I add?

EDIT: Does the eye look sleepy? If so, how can I fix this?

Please note that the colors I have aren't finalized. For example, the light blue might end up being a different color. The detail on the horn won't be navy, but right now I haven't cleaned it up completely because I still may tweak angles and placement. I think the lines on the horn will probably end up being gray.

[YelichGraphics]

horn us great, but that eye still bugs me

[hugevolsfan]

The horn certainly looks better now & looks more crisp with the additions added.

However to me you still have the problem that the head looks like it is rolling instead of lowering but that could be just me.

I still think making the neck would push it over the top.

[davidmiller5]

The horn certainly looks better now & looks more crisp with the additions added.

However to me you still have the problem that the head looks like it is rolling instead of lowering but that could be just me.

I still think making the neck would push it over the top.

The thought of the head rolling makes sense to me. Adding a neck like what St. Louis uses would keep that from happening, but I am trying to stay away from looking too similar to them. Should I add a neck (and evoke St. Louis more) or should I adjust the angle of the head?

[TVIXX]

I think you should add a neck to the ram

[Jake88]

I personally like the 90 degree rotation. It kinda gives the logo a classier feeling, though it loses any intimidation. Also sharpen the horn.

[davidmiller5]

Here is a version with a neck. You were right, it is needed. Thanks, VolsFan and TVIXX, for pointing this out.

I also redid the ear. Is it working?

I haven't sharpened the horn yet, but I will get to it (the horn is tricky with those curves, so I have been putting it off).

I also moved the back horn in some and have started cleaning up some of the lines (around the horn).

I added some neck shading, but I'm not sure how well it's working. Let me know. I am also concerned with where the white outline from the jaw and the neck meet. Should I keep the white lines from meeting?

[TVIXX]

how would a full body logo look

[YelichGraphics]

love it good logo