Alternate SPORTS! History Thread

[DnBronc]

4 hours ago, FinsUp1214 said:

 

Yep, it would've provided a larger "big game" reputation for him for sure (though his '68 performance in and of itself was legendary). It would have been awesome to see what he could've done in multiple World Series.

 

Also, it's a shame overall the Tigers couldn't have been more successful than they were during the later part of his career. Thier offensive decline ended up hurting him badly - I think it was in '74 or '75 that in a 14 start stretch, the lineup only provided him with 14 total runs. It was a wonder he could still get 15+ wins at the time with an offense like that.

 

If he had those other boxes checked (like you talked about), getting 15 wins one year with an anemic offense should have been another feather in his cap. That was when the Tigers were starting to go downhill, though, and had to rebuild through the draft, which leads me to another WI (inspired by this article):

 

https://www.detroitathletic.com/blog/2014/04/05/nine-biggest-ifs-detroit-tigers-history/

 

What if the Reds didn't fire Sparky Anderson after the 1978 season, and he never ends up in Detroit? 

[Jacobseye]

What If the Broncos didn't get Peyton Manning? How would Tebow's career pan out?

[rams80]

36 minutes ago, Jacobseye said:

What If the Broncos didn't get Peyton Manning? How would Tebow's career pan out?

 

The same way it did.  God can't fix his throwing motion.

[BeerGuyJordan]

16 hours ago, rams80 said:

 

The same way it did.  God can't fix his throwing motion.

Blashphemer! Heretic! Naysayer! Tebow can do anything, God just had baseball plans for him. (Note the sarcasm)

[OnWis97]

On 5/24/2017 at 10:16 AM, FinsUp1214 said:

A fun one I got to thinking of when I came across a video of Bob Uecker's Frick Award speech today: What if he was a talented enough player to not only have a full career, but actually make the Hall of Fame? Does he still become the Brewers broadcaster, or someone else's? Does he get into broadcasting at all?

 

It may be ridiculous haha, but I had fun thinking of an alternate history involving my best guess. There's some obvious crazy liberties taken because this hinges on a Uecker that was great enough to make the Hall of Fame as a player, not the Uecker we know that that was legendarily bad. If you're in for a read, here you go. 

 

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Let's say for just for kicks that this alternative Uecker makes the majors much earlier as a very promising catching prospect (he didn't really make it till he was 28) in 1956 when he's 22. He still gets signed by the hometown Braves. He starts at catcher a year later, thus being the solid catcher for back-to-back pennant winners (and a World Series champion in 1957), and makes his first All-Star game that second pennant year in 1958.  He builds a reputation as one of the best defensive catchers in all of baseball with a solid, serviceable, clutch bat. He also proves to be a popular baseball figure altogether as a notorious prankster, a comedian, entertainer, and a friend of many of his contemporaries.

 

In 1960 he "shocked the world and sent pigs flying" (in his words) as he won the NL MVP award, turning in career bests of .309, 22 home runs, and 105 RBIs and a Gold Glove after posting a .991 fielding percentage. He stays in Milwaukee until he is traded to St. Louis in 1964, where it's Uecker - not Tim McCarver - who is the starting catcher for the World Series champion Cardinals that year, winning his 2nd ring. Instead of eventually getting traded to Philadelphia, he stays in St. Louis and is the star catcher there until 1969, when after having contributed greatly to two rings in St. Louis total (as well as one other pennant), he gets traded back to the Braves for a second stint where he provides veteran help for the '69 West division winners (but, despite his great defensive reputation, leads the league in passed balls in 1970 because Phil Niekro. This still allows for the great quip, "the only way to catch a knuckleball is to wait until it stops rolling and pick it up"). He stays put until 1971 when he joins his hometown Brewers for one final season in which he catches part-time, but also serves as a dependable pinch-hitter. Retiring in 1972, he carves up a resume of 2,073 hits, 156 homers, a respectable .272 batting average, and six Gold Gloves along with his MVP award, three World Series rings, and five pennants. He also is selected to and plays in every All-Star game from 1958-1963, and again from 1965-1968. Still being the hilarious, personable, entertainer he is? He immediately sets his sights on a broadcasting career.

 

Due to his playing career having ended in this story six seasons after when it did in real life, Uecker doesn't join the Brewers in 1971, but rather gets his shot with the Braves instead in 1973 after guest broadcasting with NBC for a season and appearing occasionally on The Tonight Show (where he still gets the name "Mr. Baseball"). His humorous and entertaining style, as well as his reputation as an All-Star and World Series champion, make him greatly popular and, with strong Braves ties, a fitting choice for the mic. This door opens because Milo Hamilton, critical of the lack of Braves' fans support and refusing to pass the issue, gets fired two seasons before he does in real life for the same reason. Thus, it is Bob Uecker who calls his former teammate Hank Aaron's 715th home run, and is eventually the voice of the Braves' national telecasts on TBS for years. After TBS expanded thier broadcasts to the Postseason and regular season games across the league, Uecker then moved solely to calling Braves games over the radio, where he still would be calling them today.

 

The great highlight in his career, though, comes when he becomes the first person ever to be elected to the Hall of Fame as a player AND receive the Frick Award, as he is elected as a player in 1993 (after much campaigning by Braves fans, as well as Braves and Cardinal HOF teammates) and receives the Frick Award ten years later in 2003. At his Frick Award acceptance speech, he opens with the quip, "I botched my induction speech so bad that Cooperstown had pity on me and gave a mulligan. I don't know what this award is, but thanks anyways."

 

All in all, Uecker still goes on to a legendary broadcasting career. Though a much more prestigious playing career robs him of some self-deprecating material, it doesn't change his style at all; the pro comedian finds plenty of other things to joke about and has even more seasons worth of hilarious stories to recall. In short, we still get Bob Uecker, only he is a Braves/nationwide-via-TBS legend rather than a Brewers one and he is also regarded as one of the premier catchers of his time.

 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I know this post is from a long time ago but I just noticied.

I think your statement "...much more prestigious playing career robs him of some self-deprecating material..." leads me to the idea that he would not be a legendary broadcaster.  I think his post-playing fame is based on the fact that he was a mediocre player and was willing to make fun of himself.  Granted, I did not listen to a lot of his broadcasts but the little I did was kinda disappointing.  I guess I don't know whether he gets the role on Mr. Belvidere but I think he becomes a well-respected player that a now-older generation remembers but with no basis for his shtick.  He probably made more money, lifetime, as a mediocre player than he would have as a star (given salaries back then).

[DnBronc]

In 1973, a certain Mr. Vitale was in the running for the Rutgers men's hoops job:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKrqUPfnqE4

 

However, Coach V may have been too ambitious for their tastes, and then he was offered the HC job at Detroit (which he accepted).

If Vitale would have got the Rutgers job, though, and had success, I wonder if it makes the difference between them turning down or joining the Big East by 1979 (I know that Paterno had some influence, but maybe Vitale could have convinced them to take the invite) if he is still the coach there.

[OnWis97]

John Wooden almost ended up at Minnesota.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/1997-03-24/sports/sp-41574_1_san-antonio

[DnBronc]

36 minutes ago, OnWis97 said:

John Wooden almost ended up at Minnesota.

 

http://articles.latimes.com/1997-03-24/sports/sp-41574_1_san-antonio

 

If he goes to Minnesota, he probably isn't as revered as he is today. At UCLA, he won all those championships because of Sam Gilbert's bank account and the NCAA protection, and he was seen as some legend because of it. It's sad, because the NCAA should have thrown the book at the Bruin hoops program by 1970. That program was dirty as heck. Wooden and A.D. J.D. Morgan should have been banned from NCAA sports, and Gilbert should have been thrown in prison. 

[goalieboy82]

24 minutes ago, DnBronc said:

 

If he goes to Minnesota, he probably isn't as revered as he is today. At UCLA, he won all those championships because of Sam Gilbert's bank account and the NCAA protection, and he was seen as some legend because of it. It's sad, because the NCAA should have thrown the book at the Bruin hoops program by 1970. That program was dirty as heck. Wooden and A.D. J.D. Morgan should have been banned from NCAA sports, and Gilbert should have been thrown in prison. 

why have they not done it yet.  the NCAA goes back years later for the most smallest things.  

[DnBronc]

8 hours ago, goalieboy82 said:

why have they not done it yet.  the NCAA goes back years later for the most smallest things.  

 

They did punish UCLA....In 1981. And, they got a slap on the wrist compared to what they should have gotten:

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jun/08/sports/la-sp-0609-wooden-gilbert-20100609

[MadmanLA]

On 8/8/2017 at 1:14 PM, DnBronc said:

 

If he goes to Minnesota, he probably isn't as revered as he is today. At UCLA, he won all those championships because of Sam Gilbert's bank account and the NCAA protection, and he was seen as some legend because of it. It's sad, because the NCAA should have thrown the book at the Bruin hoops program by 1970. That program was dirty as heck. Wooden and A.D. J.D. Morgan should have been banned from NCAA sports, and Gilbert should have been thrown in prison. 

 

I remember first hearing about Sam Gilbert from a local sports talk show back in the late 90s...I had no idea who he was until I discovered that his wife was an English teacher at my old high school (Palisades Charter HS).  She was there when it first opened in 1961, and retired in 2012...sadly, she passed away a few months after her retirement.

 

As far as "Papa G"...I still find it hard to believe that neither Wooden or Morgan knew right then and there that their players where getting these extra freebies.  Gilbert also apparently had mob ties as well, but he was also in construction, and was the first agent to several UCLA basketball alums, namely Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

[DnBronc]

1 hour ago, MadmanLA said:

 

I remember first hearing about Sam Gilbert from a local sports talk show back in the late 90s...I had no idea how he was until I discovered that his wife was an English teacher at my old high school (Palisades Charter HS).  She was there when it first opened in 1961, and retired in 2012...sadly, she passed away a few months after her retirement.

 

As far as "Papa G"...I still find it hard to believe that neither Wooden or Morgan knew right then and there that their players where getting these extra freebies.  Gilbert also apparently had mob ties as well, but he was also in construction, and was the first agent to several UCLA basketball alums, namely Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

 

I was on a blog that had an entry about Bob Knight and Wooden:

 

https://christianthought.hbu.edu/2014/02/05/bob-knight-john-wooden-and-whats-wrong-with-america-2/

 

In the comments, a former ASU basketball player (who played against the Bruins in the 1973 and 75 NCAA's) had this to say:

Quote

 

I played against Wooden and UCLA twice in the NCAA Tournament. I later took up coaching and studied as many coaches as possible, deeply, in order to become a better coach myself. I now teach an Ethics class. I use Wooden as an example….NOT a good example. I wanted to play for him, I thought I wanted to coach like him, but the more I learned, really learned, the more surprised I was.

Wooden was on his way out in 1959-60 with a 14-12 record and having had Cal (Pete Newell) take him to the woodshed repeatedly over the years. He hired Jerry Norman, a ‘recruiter’, in every connotation of the word. Norman had been a player at UCLA with the first NBA player, Willie Nauls, and Naulls was the first documented relationship with Sam Gilbert. Walt Hazzard chose UCLA because of Naulls. And that started it all. Players, not philosophy, changed.

Several quick events that for some reason have crossed my life’s path that shows, and supports, the article’s critique of Wooden:

First, Wooden claims in a devotional/biographical book that he never considered retirement until after the semi-final game in 1975. That is a lie. Like many of his lies, he insists so strongly that it makes one believe nothing else could be true. The fact is, he announce his retirement before the regional final game against Arizona State. How do I know? I played on Arizona State and after the game Dave Meyer came up on our bus and told us that they had been really psyched since Coach Wooden had told them before the game that he was going to retire. You do not ever forget anything like that. I remember it like it was yesterday. Also, the same game, UCLA and Wooden’s claim that they never scouted. Our locker room that day was the one UCLA used the game before against Montana State and there in plain sight was there mimeographed scouting reports for their game against Montana State. Nobody used written scouting reports back then, but there was ‘never the scout the opponent, UCLA’ scouting report in plain sight.

The trend here is that the more I studied Wooden, it seems the more and more he would insist on something, the more likely he was not telling the truth. I have a variety of other anecdotal testaments that Wooden did not win until Gilbert started cheating including crossing paths with Terry Schofield, guard with the Wicks Rowe teams…but the most damning comes from Gene Bartow. My first coaching job was with Northeast Missouri State University, Gene Bartow;s alma mater. Coach Willard Sims was Bartow’s JV coach (the highest level Bartow achieved) and he would tell me of the number of times that Bartow had called him while at UCLA simply exclaiming to Willard, ‘you wouldn’t believe what goes on here’. Wooden at the time still had an office next to Bartow’s even though retired. Then later, while I was doing research on Wooden, I cam across the fact that Bartow had written a letter to the NCAA in 1993, I believe, that included a sincere thank you to them for calling off an investigation at UCLA (Bartow’s first year) 1976 ‘because he feared for his life with Sam Gilbert, and others, around the program might think he was the one who called for the investigation.’

Wooden knew. Wooden did not start winning big until Jerry Norman started ‘recruiting’. Wooden no doubt may have been a fine man and teacher, etc. BUT he did not start winning until he started cheating, or allowing it.

I could go on. Nobody will pay much attention to this, How can this be true??? I am convinced, as I also am with Coach K, these guys were headed south in a hurry and the only thing that saved them was finding players…and they found them by cheating.

 

 

[Unocal]

2012 NLDS- what if the Reds win one of those last 3 games? Who wins a Reds/Cardinals NLCS and how do they do in a World Series against the Tigers?

 

Even if the Giants win in 2014, would we look at them differently if they win 2 titles in 5 years instead of 3?

[neo_prankster]

Now suppose the Federal League was able to merge with MLB in the late 1910's with this alignment....

 

AL

Yanks, Red Sox, White Sox, Indians, Senators, Tigers, Browns, A's

Plus

Baltimore Terrapins/Orioles

Kansas City Blues/Kings/Packers

 

NL

Cubs, Giants, Dodgers, Braves, Phillies, Pirates, Cards, Reds

Plus

Indianapolis Capitols

Louisville Eclipse/Bourbons/Colonels

 

Which of the 20 teams would survive the Depression and Second World War?

[goalieboy82]

here is one:

what if the Munich air disaster (the plane with Man U on it) didn't crash.  would they have won a European Cup* before 67-68 season.  

*for those who don't know its the UEFA Champions League name before it was change in 1992.

 

[B-Rich]

On 8/28/2017 at 2:19 PM, neo_prankster said:

Now suppose the Federal League was able to merge with MLB in the late 1910's with this alignment....

 

AL

Yanks, Red Sox, White Sox, Indians, Senators, Tigers, Browns, A's

Plus

Baltimore Terrapins/Orioles

Kansas City Blues/Kings/Packers

 

NL

Cubs, Giants, Dodgers, Braves, Phillies, Pirates, Cards, Reds

Plus

Indianapolis Capitols

Louisville Eclipse/Bourbons/Colonels

 

Which of the 20 teams would survive the Depression and Second World War?

All of them.  Which actual MLB teams didn't survive the Depression and WWII? All of them did.

 

It wouldn't be any different because of adding 4 teams in large cities (2 of which eventually got MLB teams, 1 of which has been a constant "pro sports town" since 1967, and the last of which easily could have been one).

[AstroCree]

What if the Pirates stayed in the NL East while the Braves moved to the NL Central like originally planned? A move that didn't happen because the Braves wanted to form a rivalry with the Marlins that was yet to happen.

Mets have 3 straight division titles in the late 90s? 

Marlins might win 2 division titles. Does this change their playoff opponents? So they still win 2 titles?

Expos have a few division titles? Does this save them in Montreal?

Braves division streak doesn't go as long?

More competition in the Central, do the Braves still go the playoffs in some of those years in the 2000s? 

[DnBronc]

On 8/28/2017 at 11:14 PM, insert name said:

Mets have 3 straight division titles in the late 90s? 

 

I think the Marlins win in 97, but from 1998-00, that's very possible.

 

On 8/28/2017 at 11:14 PM, insert name said:

Marlins might win 2 division titles. Does this change their playoff opponents? So they still win 2 titles?

 

I think they do in 1997, and they have a good shot in 2003 as well. Also, that alignment would have made the Cubbies a WC, and the Bartman incident is butterflied away because I don't think the Cubs beat the 2-seed Giants in the first round. 

 

On 8/28/2017 at 11:14 PM, insert name said:

Expos have a few division titles? Does this save them in Montreal?

 

Probably in 1996, when they won 88 games in reality. 

[nyratk1]

1 hour ago, DnBronc said:

 

I think the Marlins win in 97, but from 1998-00, that's very possible.

The 98 team was good. But they had a better chance of doing 99-00-01 instead.

[Luigi74]

On 8/28/2017 at 11:14 PM, insert name said:

What if the Pirates stayed in the NL East while the Braves moved to the NL Central like originally planned? A move that didn't happen because the Braves wanted to form a rivalry with the Marlins that was yet to happen.

Mets have 3 straight division titles in the late 90s? 

Marlins might win 2 division titles. Does this change their playoff opponents? So they still win 2 titles?

Expos have a few division titles? Does this save them in Montreal?

Braves division streak doesn't go as long?

More competition in the Central, do the Braves still go the playoffs in some of those years in the 2000s? 

The Pirates would have won the division in 2015 and possibly 2013.