Alternate SPORTS! History Thread

[Stampman]

What if McSorley's stick was legal in 1993? The Kings were leading game 2 and could have come home with a 2-0 lead.

Would the Canadian Cup drought be 24 years instead of 20? And the Candien's drought at 28 years?

I can't buy it. The Kings lost that series 4-1. The end result of that penalty was that the Kings came back to LA with the series tied 1-1; any team would be happy with that in a playoff series. If they were sooo destroyed after such a "meh" incident, I don't think they would have won the series even with a 2-0 lead.

Exactly--and same goes if Brett Hull's goal against Buffalo was disallowed--Dallas still could have won that game and the Cup--it wasn't a given.

[Sport]

What if McSorley's stick was legal in 1993? The Kings were leading game 2 and could have come home with a 2-0 lead.

Would the Canadian Cup drought be 24 years instead of 20? And the Candien's drought at 28 years?

I can't buy it. The Kings lost that series 4-1. The end result of that penalty was that the Kings came back to LA with the series tied 1-1; any team would be happy with that in a playoff series. If they were sooo destroyed after such a "meh" incident, I don't think they would have won the series even with a 2-0 lead.

Exactly--and same goes if Brett Hull's goal against Buffalo was disallowed--Dallas still could have won that game and the Cup--it wasn't a given.

Yeah Dallas was pretty stacked that year and there's a good chance they still end up winning that game. Even if Buffalo wins in overtime of game 6 then they still had to go back to Dallas for game 7. The probabilities all point to Dallas winning that year if that goal was disallowed.

It does suck that poor sad Buffalo lost to Dallas in a major championship final for the third time in the 90's.

[goalieboy82]

VFL/AFL related (Fitzroy for the first 3)

1: what if the Melbourne Demons and Fitzroy Lions merged (1986 or 1994 i think). would they have won a grand final by 2000 (or been in one).

2: what if the Fitzroy and Footscray merger went ahead anyway (even if the money was raised by the Bulldogs fans). would there have been a court case to stop it (dont know the full story other then the Bulldogs raised the money to stop it).

3: what if North Melbourne merger with Fitzroy happen in 1996? does North-Fitzroy win a few more grand finals.

4: what if Fitzroy moved to Sydney for 1980 or to Brisbane for 1987. would they have merged soon or later.

5: what if any of the mergers to Fitzroy never happen? do they just die (or move down a league).

[Cosmic]

What if McSorley's stick was legal in 1993? The Kings were leading game 2 and could have come home with a 2-0 lead.

Would the Canadian Cup drought be 24 years instead of 20? And the Candien's drought at 28 years?

I can't buy it. The Kings lost that series 4-1. The end result of that penalty was that the Kings came back to LA with the series tied 1-1; any team would be happy with that in a playoff series. If they were sooo destroyed after such a "meh" incident, I don't think they would have won the series even with a 2-0 lead.

Exactly--and same goes if Brett Hull's goal against Buffalo was disallowed--Dallas still could have won that game and the Cup--it wasn't a given.

Yeah Dallas was pretty stacked that year and there's a good chance they still end up winning that game. Even if Buffalo wins in overtime of game 6 then they still had to go back to Dallas for game 7. The probabilities all point to Dallas winning that year if that goal was disallowed.

It does suck that poor sad Buffalo lost to Dallas in a major championship final for the third time in the 90's.

It was far from a given that Buffalo would have won the Cup (they still would have had a road Game 7 even if they scored in that OT), but they had Dominik Hasek in his prime. The guy with six Vezinas, two Hart Trophies and the guy who completely took over the Olympics the year before. They had a pretty good shot.

[BelfourThibault]

What if McSorley's stick was legal in 1993? The Kings were leading game 2 and could have come home with a 2-0 lead.

Would the Canadian Cup drought be 24 years instead of 20? And the Candien's drought at 28 years?

I can't buy it. The Kings lost that series 4-1. The end result of that penalty was that the Kings came back to LA with the series tied 1-1; any team would be happy with that in a playoff series. If they were sooo destroyed after such a "meh" incident, I don't think they would have won the series even with a 2-0 lead.

Exactly--and same goes if Brett Hull's goal against Buffalo was disallowed--Dallas still could have won that game and the Cup--it wasn't a given.

Yeah Dallas was pretty stacked that year and there's a good chance they still end up winning that game. Even if Buffalo wins in overtime of game 6 then they still had to go back to Dallas for game 7. The probabilities all point to Dallas winning that year if that goal was disallowed.

It does suck that poor sad Buffalo lost to Dallas in a major championship final for the third time in the 90's.

It was far from a given that Buffalo would have won the Cup (they still would have had a road Game 7 even if they scored in that OT), but they had Dominik Hasek in his prime. The guy with six Vezinas, two Hart Trophies and the guy who completely took over the Olympics the year before. They had a pretty good shot.

That was easily the best goaltending I've ever seen in a Stanley Cup Final, by BOTH goalies. Look at Hasek and Belfour's stats in that final and it's mind blowing. I don't remember the exact numbers, and I can't find them anywhere, so I won't make a fool of myself by quoting incorrect stats...but wow. And even in that game 6, Belfour had 53 saves and Hasek had 48.

[DnBronc]

Two what-ifs from the last day of the 1995 season:

1. What if Yancey Thigpen doesn't drop a winning TD in Lambeau?

2. What if the Falcons don't beat the 49ers?

That would have given Detroit the NFC Central title, San Francisco the #1 seed, and made the NFC Wild-Card Games Green Bay-Philly and Chicago-Detroit?

In the NFC WC Round, I think that Philly and Detroit win at home. That sends Detroit to Dallas, and Philly to San Fran.

I think that the Lions hang with Dallas for a half, but the Cowboys pull away in the second half. I also see SF defeating the Eagles, setting up another Cowboy-49er NFC Title Game for the fourth straight year.

The 49ers beat Dallas for the second straight year, setting up a SB that should have happened the year before: 49ers and Steelers.

While the Niners would have won a hypo SB 29, I think that the Steelers win this hypo SB 30.

Here are possible implications of these results:

1. Neil O'Donnell is more likely to stay in Pittsburgh since he doesn't have the game-losing INT's to Larry Brown (who either re-signs with Dallas, or goes to a bad team in FA like the Bengals or Saints). If Neil does stay, the Steelers may have went back to the SB (especially because they still trade for Bettis) after Denver got upset.

2. Without their run to the NFC Title Game, the Packers may not be the chic pick to win it all in 1996. However, as a result of that loss, they end up drafting four slots higher than they did in reality. That is huge, because it would have meant that Ray Lewis would have become a Packer (Ron Wolf wanted him, but the Ravens took him right before the Packers picked).

[dfwabel]

What if the Houston Oilers did indeed knock on the door, beat on the door, and then kick the SOB in against Pittsburgh in the AFC title game? Big Earl "Skoal, brother" Campbell gets more than a handful of yards in the AFC title game and the Oilers go on to disrupt the Steelers dynasty? If they would've been able to beat Pittsburgh, there's a solid chance they win at least one Super Bowl. Bum Phillips would have been in Houston until he decided to retire, and the Oilers would definitely still be in Houston, in my opinion, in spite of having the worst owner in football. Luv ya blue.

Would Nashville have ever been awarded a team via expansion?

I think the Oilers are definitely still in Houston if they build off that. I don't think Nashville gets a team. Would the 2002 expansion even happen? Houston wouldn't need a team and L.A. wasn't prepared whatsoever.

Even if the Oilers were able to make one Super Bowl, Bud Adams was still wanting a stadium of his own and Houston politicians were not budging. The Astros held the Master Lease to the entire Astrodome complex (Dome, Arena, and other property). He flirted with Jacksonville* in the mid-80's in order to get 10,000 additional seats and 75+ suites inside the Astrodome at a cost of $87M. Less than six years later, he wanted a new stadium, to which then Houston Mayor Lanier said that he would not increase property taxes as Harris County, which is STILL paying off the Astrodome as not going to take part.

*-Around that time, Jacksonville was the pawn which LA is now. The (Baltimore) Colts, (St. Louis) Cardinals, Oilers and Falcons all tried to use the then-Gator Bowl as a pawn at the time.

The bigger "what if" for the Houston Oilers is what if they did not blow the 35-3 lead to the Bills in the 1993 playoffs because after that game, their popularity really sunk.

[illwauk]

2. Without their run to the NFC Title Game, the Packers may not be the chic pick to win it all in 1996. However, as a result of that loss, they end up drafting four slots higher than they did in reality. That is huge, because it would have meant that Ray Lewis would have become a Packer (Ron Wolf wanted him, but the Ravens took him right before the Packers picked).

The Packers became the "chic pick" based on their win at San Francisco in the 1995 playoffs, which busted up the 49ers-Cowboys dichotomy that the NFL had become at that point. That still could have happened if the Packers were a wild card.

Either way, I always thought the '96 Packers defense was one of the more underrated in NFL history. They only allowed 19 touchdowns the entire season... a league record at the time. And Ray Lewis could've been part of THAT defense?

[Cosmic]

What if Danny Briere and Chris Drury both resigned with the Sabres in 2007? They were key contributors on a Presidents Trophy team in '06-'07, then they were gone in the summer of '07, and neither one had any great success after leaving Buffalo. Would their careers have still gone downhill so fast if they had stayed put? Do the Oilers still sign Thomas Vanek to an offer sheet? Do the Sabres take the Oilers' draft picks as compensation instead of matching and get #1 overall picks out of it?

[BBTV]

In the mid '80s, Phila Eagles owner and gambling addict Leonard Tose lost his fortune gambling in Atlantic City, and had to sell the team FAST to pay off his debts.

The Eagles had actually agreed to move to Phoenix (or at least were thisclose to a mayflower-esque move) before Norman Bramon showed up at the last second and bought them (he would then go on to be such a cheap and non-caring owner that he was the reason that Reggie White, Keith Jackson, Keith Byars, and a bnch of other players sued for and won the right for NFL players to be free agents - without that, there would be no big off seasons or salary caps or anything like that.)

Anyway, I guess this was one year after the Colts moved, so they wouldn't have been able to move to Phila.

I don't think it's safe to assume that the St. Louis Cardinals would have just moved to Phila instead of Phoenix, because I don't know what Phoenix was offereing and I know that Phila probably wouldn't have offered anything special.

Stadiums and facilities weren't as important back then so I don't know that the Vet and the team's notoriously crappy facilities would have mattered much, so you'd think that someone would have jumped at the chance to fill a void in the 4th or 5th largest market.

Could we have seen the very first Cleveland deal? What would have happened to the St Louis Cardinals?

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=73EzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DOkFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4571%2C2768885

[PittsburghSucks]

What if Art Modell was a "Mensch" and just sold the team to Al Learner?

[DustDevil61]

In the mid '80s, Phila Eagles owner and gambling addict Leonard Tose lost his fortune gambling in Atlantic City, and had to sell the team FAST to pay off his debts.

The Eagles had actually agreed to move to Phoenix (or at least were thisclose to a mayflower-esque move) before Norman Bramon showed up at the last second and bought them (he would then go on to be such a cheap and non-caring owner that he was the reason that Reggie White, Keith Jackson, Keith Byars, and a bnch of other players sued for and won the right for NFL players to be free agents - without that, there would be no big off seasons or salary caps or anything like that.)

Anyway, I guess this was one year after the Colts moved, so they wouldn't have been able to move to Phila.

I don't think it's safe to assume that the St. Louis Cardinals would have just moved to Phila instead of Phoenix, because I don't know what Phoenix was offereing and I know that Phila probably wouldn't have offered anything special.

Stadiums and facilities weren't as important back then so I don't know that the Vet and the team's notoriously crappy facilities would have mattered much, so you'd think that someone would have jumped at the chance to fill a void in the 4th or 5th largest market.

Could we have seen the very first Cleveland deal? What would have happened to the St Louis Cardinals?

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=73EzAAAAIBAJ&sjid=DOkFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4571%2C2768885

You mean Philadelphia deal? It's also endlessly fascinating (to me, anyways) wondering where teams may have ended up. We could have had the Arizona Eagles and Philadelphia Cardials. Or if we wanted to really amp things up, and like I mentioned before, the Colts could have beaten the Eagles and Cardinals to Phoenix. So we may have ended up with the Arizona Colts, Indianapolis Eagles, and Philadelphia Cardinals, assuming all 3 franchises moved and all 3 cities wound up with a team in the end.

What if Art Modell was a "Mensch" and just sold the team to Al Learner?

They would have been around between 1996 and 1998, but they may have still had a long stint of irrelevancy in the 2000s.

Staying with the Browns, here's another one: What if there were no Cleveland deal? We'd have the Baltimore Browns--that much is known--but would Cleveland still get a team in 1999, or would they wait until 2002 to join with Houston (if at all)? And, of course, what would the Cleveland team be called? What would their colors be?

[leopard88]

What if the Steelers didn't cut Johnny Unitas?

[MadmanLA]

What if the Steelers didn't cut Johnny Unitas?

The Steelers' ascent to greatness would have happened about 15 years sooner than it did. There are generations of Steelers fans that don't realize how mediocre-to-bad of a team they were in the pre-Super Bowl era.

[leopard88]

What if the Steelers didn't cut Johnny Unitas?

The Steelers' ascent to greatness would have happened about 15 years sooner than it did. There are generations of Steelers fans that don't realize how mediocre-to-bad of a team they were in the pre-Super Bowl era.

I'm pretty sure most of them have no idea the NFL existed before 1973. At a minimum, they certainly don't talk about it.

[Dalcowboyfan92]

The Steelers' ascent to greatness would have happened about 15 years sooner than it did. There are generations of Steelers fans that don't realize how mediocre-to-bad of a team they were in the pre-Super Bowl era.

The Steelers greatly benefited from the 2 million dollar gift (something around that amount) for leaving the NFL and being apart of the AFC after the merger happened. They used that gift to pave the foundation for the Steel Curtain in the 70s.

I spin this question around; what if the Steelers do not take this 2 million dollar gift to go to the AFC; Are the 70s dominated by the Raiders and then the Oilers?

[OnWis97]

What if the Vikings had not traded all that stuff for Herschel Walker?

[illwauk]

What if the Vikings had not traded all that stuff for Herschel Walker?

Interesting to think Packers-Vikings could have overtaken Packers-Bears as the flagship NFC Central/North rivalry.

[MadmanLA]

What if the Vikings had not traded all that stuff for Herschel Walker?

I just read more about the trade elsewhere, and Jimmy Johnson almost traded Walker to the Browns until the Vikings offer came through. Cleveland offered a player, two future 1st round picks, and three future second-rounders. Johnson gave the Vikings front office until 6:30pm on the evening of the trade to come up with something better, or else Herschel was heading to Cleveland. Coincidentally enough, the day of the trade (October 12, 1989) was the same day that the NFL owners were meeting in the Metroplex to name Paul Tagliabue as the new NFL commissioner.

I think had Walker stayed in Dallas, with the Vikings keeping their draft picks, I would imagine the Cowboys would have been where the Vikings were in the '90s under Dennis Green--a good, but not great team fighting for the Wild Card spots every years. Meanwhile, Minnesota with an offense led by Warren Moon, Cris Carter, and Emmitt Smith, plus a defense with John Randle, Darren Woodson, and Chris Doleman probably would have won the Super Bowls the Cowboys would eventually get.

[TheOldRoman]

What if the Vikings had not traded all that stuff for Herschel Walker?

I just read more about the trade elsewhere, and Jimmy Johnson almost traded Walker to the Browns until the Vikings offer came through. Cleveland offered a player, two future 1st round picks, and three future second-rounders. Johnson gave the Vikings front office until 6:30pm on the evening of the trade to come up with something better, or else Herschel was heading to Cleveland. Coincidentally enough, the day of the trade (October 12, 1989) was the same day that the NFL owners were meeting in the Metroplex to name Paul Tagliabue as the new NFL commissioner.

I think had Walker stayed in Dallas, with the Vikings keeping their draft picks, I would imagine the Cowboys would have been where the Vikings were in the '90s under Dennis Green--a good, but not great team fighting for the Wild Card spots every years. Meanwhile, Minnesota with an offense led by Warren Moon, Cris Carter, and Emmitt Smith, plus a defense with John Randle, Darren Woodson, and Chris Doleman probably would have won the Super Bowls the Cowboys would eventually get.

Warren Moon didn't get to Minnesota until 1994 when he was 38 (although he had three great seasons there). Maybe the Vikings draft the same players the Cowboys did, maybe they take a top QB instead. There's no telling Moon would have ended up there alongside Smith.