RIP Oscar Taveras

[FGM13]

Just heard the news. This is awful. I thought he was gonna be a great player in the Major Leagues.

As much as I hate the Cardinals, I really am sorry for the organization and I hate seeing this happen to anyone.

[HedleyLamarr]

Cardinals super prospect Oscar Taveras has been killed in a car accident with his girlfriend in his native Dominican Republic. I'm sick.

It's sad news and all....but really? C'mon now, don't be overly dramatic on this.

This is why you get crap about "Today we are all Cardinals!"....

I'm not a Cardinals fan but there's definitely some feeling deep in my gut about him dying. Has nothing to do with the Cards, just that some young guy died.

If somebody else had posted that, you wouldn't have said anything. It's just because he's a Cards fan.

No, it's because he was overly dramatic about Hancock's death, saying multiple times about how he was in mourning and the like. Got really defensive about his death until it was found out that it was due to drugs/alcohol.

Has nothing to do with who he roots for.

It's ok to be sad about something, but I think it's a bit much to say you're sick/ill or in mourning over someone you really don't know.

Like I said, it's sad, but it's not much different from what you typically see on your local news these days.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/toxicology-report-says-oscar-taveras-was-legally-drunk-at-time-of-crash-011259702.html

Tavares' blood-alcohol level measured at five times over the legal limit. Just another reason to "slow your roll" when it comes to unexpected deaths.

[Gothamite]

Exactly. I understand the impulse, but it's wise to wait until the facts are known.

All that emotional outpouring, the tributes. All for a guy who killed his girlfriend.

[JayMac]

Exactly. I understand the impulse, but it's wise to wait until the facts are known.

All that emotional outpouring, the tributes. All for a guy who killed his girlfriend.

I understand where you are coming from but it is still tragic. All humans make mistakes and poor choices and his just so happened to be a fatal one. I am not a Cardinals fan and I didn't know much about the man, but I feel that it is still ok to memorialize the man if they choose to do so.

[Gothamite]

If he had only killed himself, that would be one thing. But he took someone else's life too. And that's unforgivable.

Mourn his loss, sure. But memorializing him with all the uniform tributes ignores what he actually did.

[Kramerica Industries]

Still feels like something is short-sighted about that, to me. She still made either a cognizant decision to sit in the front seat of a car driven by a drunken individual, and/or she was mentally incapacitated as well. They both made mistakes that had unfortunate consequences.

[STL FANATIC]

Foreword: Sorry if you hate long posts. Sorry if you hate preachiness. In this case, please read it anyways. Start at the 7th paragraph if nothing else.

I don't regret my feelings of sickness or sadness at all. Being an irresponsible moron doesn't make a young man's death any less tragic. If possible, it makes his girlfriends wreck more tragic, however. (I did need to slow my roll all those years ago, and I've learned from that. But I'll stand by my initial feeling to this one. Just tack on anger now, too.)

I assure you that I have an extreme level of disgust for drinking and driving, but I see a big difference between murder and recklessness.

But it's tough. I think it's okay to have multiple feelings on this stuff. Was he a reckless, immature 22-year old that made a serious mistake? Yes. Do lots of people his age and many twice it or more make that same mistake every day? Yes. Did I understand the severity of such a decision at his age? Absolutely. So is it an excuse? Not one damn bit. It still makes me sad, though. And now angry. Hard to feel just one thing, I guess.

As for what the Cardinals should do, I think they still ought to mourn him. Pay him tribute. But it's also time to do a lot, lot more than that. There's talk about letting this be a wake up call to players, an unfortunate opportunity to educate them. Ok. But they did that 7 years ago when Josh Hancock make the same horrific, irresponsible, and beyond stupid choice to get behind the wheel inebriated and also paid the ultimate, tragic price. Hopefully this time they can do it in a way that instills an organizational culture, though I'm a bit dubious.

And the reason I'm dubious is because I don't think you can do it as an organization. I think it's a societal thing. And that's why I think it's time for the Cardinals to attempt to turn this into something actually good. Start a public service campaign. If there's positive shock value to it, use the images (not the death images, but player images) of Taveras and Hancock. I'm not sure if that's valuable, but if it is, do it. Whether or not it's insensitive isn't really a concern as at the very least they gave up any right to sensitivity when they made their decision to drive drunk. TV commercials. Radio. Billboards. Online. Have some sort of in-stadium promotion that SERIOUSLY discourages leaving that ballpark intoxicated and getting behind the wheel. All teams seem to make a token effort at this, but now it's time to do something real.

I'm not a believer in not selling alcohol. But maybe it's time for a smart system of limits. (Limit 2 per ticket holder via your barcode? Spur of the moment thought, but surely they can do something.) Real rewards for designated drivers. (Not just an entry in a contest.) This is an—a very unfortunate one—to make positive changes that impact the region (which could hopefully set an example that spreads beyond.)

As much as I believe in forgiveness and second-chances and what not (and I really, really do), I'm so tired of drinking and driving being shrugged off by so many who do it or know people who do it. It is so dumb, and if you're reading this and you know that sometimes you push the boundaries (or worse), please, please take this moment to make a conscious decision to stop. There is NO GOOD that comes from drinking and driving. Sometimes you will get lucky. Maybe even most times. But sometime you won't. And it won't be bad luck. It will be entirely on you.

Even if you're fortunate enough not to kill or injure yourself or someone else, and even if you're right that you truly can drive just fine despite drinking (and you're probably wrong), what happens when that tail light goes out on you, you're pulled over by the cop having a bad night for going 8 MPH over, or you're just plain randomly stopped? DUI on your record. Some sort of criminal punishment even though the current system suggests it won't be much. Embarrassment and shame amongst your friends, family, and co-workers. Perhaps even the loss of your job. Is it really worth that risk to have that extra beer or to not call a cab?

It's really not that hard. Drink slower. Don't buy the extra drink at the end of the night. Always realize what it means to have those keys in your pocket. And when you do plan on going out and potentially getting a little drunk, have some other plan besides you driving. And if it happens spur of the moment, be smart enough to call a friend or a cab. You can pick your car up later.

And if you're with someone who for whatever reason you simply cannot succeed at stopping from getting behind the wheel while drunk, do not get in that car with them. Get pissed at them. Say a prayer (or whatever you do) that they get home safe, and then continue to be pissed at them. Don't let it go until they understand it.

Until we develop the technology and a system that lets a person more accurately know what their level of intoxication is (personal breathalyzers aren't particularly reliable for a couple of reasons), I'll always feel some sympathy for the people that get tagged with a DUI at .09 or .1. It's possible to really believe you're being responsible and really be able to drive and still end up at this numbers. That's why I'm an extra level of safe, and that's what I'd encourage other people to do. But it can be tough. But it ultimately doesn't change the fact that the onus is on your or them or whoever to just be smarter.

It's not that hard. It's really, really not. And it's so worth it.

[Gothamite]

Sure, I feel sympathy for people who blow a BAC right over the limit. But five times over the limit? Not so much.

I agree with you that the Cardinals have a unique opportunity to make some good come out of this. I'd really love to see them do as you suggest.

Still feels like something is short-sighted about that, to me. She still made either a cognizant decision to sit in the front seat of a car driven by a drunken individual, and/or she was mentally incapacitated as well. They both made mistakes that had unfortunate consequences.

Sure, she carries some culpability. And I don't think it's appropriate to write her name on caps, either.

But drivers have the ultimate responsibility for anyone in their care. He's at fault for her death, even if she bears some responsibility as well. He was behind the wheel, he killed her.

[BBTV]

When Flyers' star goalie PelleLimberg was killed in a self-caused DUI accident in the mid '80s, they put a black "31" on their jerseys and unofficially retired the number, however they refuse to acknoledge it or hang a banner due to the nature of his death and the mixed message there of honoring an irresponsible immature idiot.

[JayMac]

When Flyers' star goalie PelleLimberg was killed in a self-caused DUI accident in the mid '80s, they put a black "31" on their jerseys and unofficially retired the number, however they refuse to acknoledge it or hang a banner due to the nature of his death and the mixed message there of honoring an irresponsible immature idiot.

My dad tells me all of the time that he drove my brother and me by the accident site (Somerdale, NJ, IIRC). I was only 4 at the time so I don't remember but it's funny that I never knew it was a DUI case. I know he loved his fast cars so I thought it was just a Jerome Brown situation (another tragic Philadelphia event).

[Tigers6884]

When Flyers' star goalie PelleLimberg was killed in a self-caused DUI accident in the mid '80s, they put a black "31" on their jerseys and unofficially retired the number, however they refuse to acknoledge it or hang a banner due to the nature of his death and the mixed message there of honoring an irresponsible immature idiot.

I didn't even know his crash was caused by a DUI. I always thought it was bad weather or some other unfortunate coincidence that caused the crash.

[STL FANATIC]

Sure, I feel sympathy for people who blow a BAC right over the limit. But five times over the limit? Not so much.

I wasn't talking about Taveras at that point. Sorry if that was unclear. I meant that in the context of a larger discussion of drunk driving. Taveras was fully drunk and there's no excuse whatsoever for what he did.

Also, just for the sake of clarity, not because it makes it that much better (technically it does, but at these levels it doesn't even matter), Taveras' BAC was .28. The legal limit in the DR is .05. In the US, it's .08. So he was almost 6x the legal limit in the DR actually, but 4x the legal limit in the US. Again, that's just for the factual sake. Changes nothing about the conversation.

[Gothamite]

Four times, five times, it's still reprehensible.

But my post wasn't really to you - I think you did an admirable job of laying our what the Cards can and should do.

[sportstar1212]

EDIT: Perhaps that was a bit over the line. I apologize for my cheap attempt at humor.

[Kramerica Industries]

edit that post before too many others see it because that is one of the dumbest and certainly most tasteless posts that's ever been posted here.

[monkeypower]

I honestly didn't know that the Limberg crash was DUI related.

But yeesh sportstar.

[BBTV]

I honestly didn't know that the Limberg crash was DUI related.

But yeesh sportstar.

http://www.flyershistory.com/cgi-bin/hm.cgi?013hm

All-star goalie Pelle Lindbergh, who was drunk according to state law whe his sports car slammed into a concrete wall, will remain on life support systems until his family is "satisfied with the finality of the situation," the Philadelphia Flyers' team physician said yesterday.

Lindbergh, 26, was declared brain dead Sunday after several examinations by neurologists and neurosurgeons confirmed irreversable damage to his spinal cord and brain stem, said Dr. Edward Viner.

He said Lindbergh's blood alcohol content was .24 percent at the time of the accident, far above the .10 limit at which a New Jersey driver is considered intoxicated.

Viner, who kept a constant vigil at Lindbergh's bedside at John F. Kennedy Memorial Hospital, said the "prognosis continues to be in compatible with life."

A decision to turn off the respirator would not be made until Lindbergh's father, Sigge, arrives from Sweden, he said. The elder Lindbergh was expected here last night.

If the family decides to doante Lindbergh's vital organs for transplant, the decision should be made by tomorrow, said Dr.Louis Gallo, a staff surgeon at Kennedy Memorial.

Lindbergh died two years before I was really in to hockey (basically because all Flyers home games were on premium pay TV and road games required a ridiculous UHF antenna to watch) but I remember seeing the news when it happened. A few years later in '91 or something like that, Lenny Dykstra slammed his porche (with Darren Daulton in the passenger seat) into a guard rail or off a cliff or something while waaaay drunk too. I think people cared more that two of their best players were injured for the rest of the season than that they were drunk. Certainly would be viewed differently today than it was then.

[monkeypower]

I knew it was a car crash, I just didn't know it was alcohol related.

[NJTank]

I remember Limberg like it was yesteday it was quite a shocker when it happened.