Do you consider the MLS a major sports league in North America?

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Which may be the one thing holding the MLS back. Soccer games are awesome to see in person. The action doesn't stop, there's no TV time outs, and you can easily commit to 45 minutes attention at a time.

Unfortunately, outside of the small ads on-screen, it's really not great for TV advertising the way football, baseball and the NBA are.

[IceCap]

Given the NHL's television ratings, I'd call them the low-hanging fruit. That's gotta be MLS's first target.

MLS is approaching generational status. That'll be a huge boost.

Kyle Rote, Jr. summed it up when he said "Soccer is America’s sport of the future—and always will be."

I'm actually going to use hockey as a means to show why World Cup enthusiasm will not translate into MLS support. At least not in high enough numbers to challenge even the NHL.

The 1990s saw a rise in the profile of international hockey tournaments. The World Cup, NHLers going to the Olympics starting with Nagano, etc... There was a huge upswing in viewership. Many casual American fans who never gave the NHL more then a passing glance were suddenly excited about the prospect of seeing Team USA take on Team Russia or those dastardly...Czechs, I guess? Anyway my point is that that nationalism fostered an interest that the NHL just couldn't. The NHL tried to capitalize on it by dropping the East/West format for their All-Star Game, turning it into "North America vs the World." It didn't work. Then NHL's own viewership has been increasing steadily since the mid 2000s, but the league utterly failed to capitalize on the excitement that surrounded international hockey in the 1990s.

And that's what MLS apologists don't realize. You can pike the casual American sports fan's interest in soccer when they can root for the United States. The LA Galaxy though? FC Dallas? What are these teams to people who have ignored them for most of their lives? Just like international hockey failed to make your average sports fan in Miami give a crap about the Panthers so too does the World Cup fail to draw your average sports fan in Houston to the Dynamo.

In terms of support? MLS has been growing, yes. As has the NHL, the number four of the "Big Four." Is MLS growing at a faster rate? I don't think so. If every market were like Seattle? Yeah, it would supplant the NHL, easily. That's like saying the NHL would supplant the NBA if every market were like Toronto though. It's never going to be the case, and people need to stop expecting it to be.

Really, Seattle is just the NASL 1.0's New York Cosmos. The outstanding market in a league of ok to apathetic markets. The difference being that MLS seems to understand how to stay in business, whereas the NASL tried to push their luck.

In terms of viewership the 2014 MLS Cup drew 1.8 million viewers. That's not much better then the 1.47 million viewers the 2015 NHL All-Star Game drew. Last year's game five of the Stanley Cup Finals, which saw the LA Kings win the Cup in a double overtime game? 6 million viewers. The entire series drew an average of 4.7 million viewers.

If you think I'm just using this as an opportunity to kick MLS, I'm not. I just joined a MLS fantasy league, fwiw. I like soccer, and I think there's a profitable niche to fill in North America. Supplanting even the NHL though? Will never happen. Both are growing in terms of viewership, and the NHL had the better starting position.

Not to mention the Canadian x-factor. Toronto FC, the Impact, and Whitecaps all have their supporters, but MLS will never, ever eclipse the NHL in North America because nothing challenges the NHL in Canada. Rogers payed $5 billion for the Canadian rights to the NHL. What's MLS' current tv contract in the US worth? $90 million a year? That's not even half of the NHL's American contract of $200 million/year. Not to mention the Canadian NHL deal.

So what chance does MLS have to eclipse the NHL in North America when the NHL can count on an entire country to boost its viewership and numbers? Add in the dedicated American markets? It's not even close to what MLS can produce.

The NHL may be low hanging fruit compared to the NBA, MLB, and the NFL, but it's still far beyond MLS's reach.

[dbadefense1990]

No. The Galaxy have basically had a dynasty here and nobody cares. I mean nobody. It's a minor league akin to the AHL or the D League.

I wouldn't say that "nobody" cares for the Galaxy. They do have a better following than the Kings do, despite the Kings winning 2 of the last 3 Stanley Cup titles. This can be drawn up to the Galaxy being followed by virtually all Latinos (soccer being the percieved-birthright sport for Latinos in the city with the highest concentration of immigrants in all of America), and affluent-suburban families in SoCal who have their kids play AYSO leagues every weekend.

And yet, the Los Angeles sports market will forever be dominated by basketball, with all other sports trying to scrape the gristles off the bones. No matter what every other team in this city does, it'll recieve marginal attention against the Lakers and Clippers. Every other pro/collegiate sports team in this city can win its championship for the next decade in a row, and nobody would still care because fans here would rather wonder if a 55-year-old Kobe Bryant can still play for the Lakers despite being diagnosed with arthritis in both his hands.

Here is at last check the popularity of the Kings, Galaxy and Lakers using Facebook data*:

Kings: 930,000

Galaxy: 1.1 million

Lakers: 22.2 million

Yes, these numbers are skewed since the Lakers are a vastly-established brand worldwide against the other two teams, but this doesn't undermine their popularity here in SoCal, no matter how sucky they'll play for the next 50 years.

*yes, this isn't a truly scientific analysis, but it's as close to it for this discussion

[Needschat]

It is a major league sport, despite what the NFL "fans" say.

Next poll should be "Will the NFL, NHL, and PGA lose their non-profit status soon?

[rams80]

It is a major league sport, despite what the NFL "fans" say.

Next poll should be "Will the NFL, NHL, and PGA lose their non-profit status soon?

Just because you put Major League in the stationary does not make it so.

[Needschat]

It is a major league sport, despite what the NFL "fans" say.

Next poll should be "Will the NFL, NHL, and PGA lose their non-profit status soon?

Just because you put Major League in the stationary does not make it so.

To FIFA, the world's governing body of the sport, it IS the major league/premier league/First Division in the United States and Canada. I hate to disappoint you and others, but it is. Football is not the greatest sport ever to some.

[IceCap]

It's not even close to touching the numbers that the fourth league of the Big Four pulls in.

[rams80]

It is a major league sport, despite what the NFL "fans" say.

Next poll should be "Will the NFL, NHL, and PGA lose their non-profit status soon?

Just because you put Major League in the stationary does not make it so.

To FIFA, the world's governing body of the sport, it IS the major league/premier league/First Division in the United States and Canada. I hate to disappoint you and others, but it is. Football is not the greatest sport ever to some.

Yes, but I define major league as among the best leagues of clubs in the world. The MLS is hovering around AAA status by that measure.

[winters in buffalo]

I don't think so. Not yet..

I'm not sure I could name all the teams. I certainly have no idea who won the last championship, or even when the season runs. Maybe it's just me, but I don't think it gets nearly the media attention that he big four get.

Sure, it's the top league in its sport here, but it seems like it's behind golf, NASCAR, college sports and the Olympics in popularity. If I had to guess, I'd say World Cup is more popular than MLS.

[Gothamite]

I'd say it's very solidly AAA. Filled with older players looking to extend their career and young talent on the way up.

But that's a dramatic improvement over past years. I'm not convinced right now that MLS is still inferior to League 1, for example. Progress.

And NASCAR? Pshaw. You want to talk minor sport....

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-isc-seats-20140827-story.html

The largest operator of NASCAR race tracks might not be done removing grandstand seats at its 13 speedways due to the decline in NASCAR's popularity, the company's chief executive said.

International Speedway Corp., whose tracks include Daytona International Speedway and Auto Club Speedway in Fontana, already has slashed the number of seats at its venues in some cases by up to 46% in the last 18 months.

ISC Chief Executive Lesa France Kennedy, in an interview with The Times, was asked whether ISC might not be done cutting back. "Maybe not," she replied. "We'll see how that goes."

[Needschat]

It is a major league sport, despite what the NFL "fans" say.

Next poll should be "Will the NFL, NHL, and PGA lose their non-profit status soon?

Just because you put Major League in the stationary does not make it so.

To FIFA, the world's governing body of the sport, it IS the major league/premier league/First Division in the United States and Canada. I hate to disappoint you and others, but it is. Football is not the greatest sport ever to some.

Yes, but I define major league as among the best leagues of clubs in the world. The MLS is hovering around AAA status by that measure.

With that logic, the NFL isn't a major league.

[IceCap]

How is the NFL not the top flight gridiron football league in the world?

[Breakwood]

The thing is; in this day and age it doesn't really matter. Back in the day the only way to watch a game save going to it live was to hope the weekly national broadcast was for your team. If they were broadcast then you had to follow newspaper reports. Then gradually all the local teams games were broadcast, but still if your team wasn't local, tough luck.

Fast forward to today. Any game for almost any sport can be seen on TV or at least on the Internet. Because of the Internet there's daily almost hourly reporting for a all teams even teams in MLS. Soccer fans don't have to rely on ESPN for their news, so they're not at the mercy of those who don't rate it as a sport.

So while it's not on the scale of the top 4, there's enough fan support out there so that you can watch and follow your team 7 days a week. Good enough for me.

[Gothamite]

Damn. I hate how every new vote bumps this thread.

[crashcarson15]

Damn. I hate how every new vote bumps this thread.

Removed the poll for this reason.

For the record, it was 30-27 in favor of the "Yes" votes when I took it out.

Sports in General isn't for polls. We have a section for that. But… I felt like the organic discussion generated here was befitting of the thread keeping its place in SiG.

[gosioux76]

I love MLS and firmly believe it's one of the best leagues in the U.S., especially when it comes to the quality of the fan experience. But until its championship game means more to TV viewers, it's hard to make a case for it as being among the Big 4.

The MLS Cup -- and the entirety of the MLS Playoffs — get lost in the noise of the baseball playoffs and the college and pro football schedule. To most of the sports watching public, it's a novelty akin to the Pro Bowl. And even then, more people watch the Pro Bowl. An estimated 1.9 million people watched the MLS Cup, while more than 6.4 million watched the Pro Bowl.

True, that's hardly an apples-to-apples comparison, but it shows that one league's most important game draws two-thirds fewer eyeballs than another league's most irrelevant game. It's perhaps more fair to compare it with the NHL All-Star game, which drew around 1.2 million viewers. But the point still stands: The MLS's most important game attracted only 700K more viewers than the NHL's novelty game.

[bosrs1]

On TV maybe not yet. But if you go to one live, it definitely beats out baseball and basketball.

By what measure? Average attendance in MLS is around 19,148 right now. MLB is averaging 30,458. And for MLB that's an average for 81 home dates vs MLS's 17. Sorry while MLS may have caught the NHL and NBA on average attendance (where those two leagues are inherently limited by smaller capacity in their arenas vs outdoor stadia). It has yet to catch either indoor league on total attendance. And it's still WAY behind MLB on either measure nevermind NFL. And mind you there's another thing to consider for league health. MLS tickets average cost is only $26 where the NBA is close to $50 and NHL is pushing $58 now on average ticket price.

[illwauk]

There are no gridiron clubs outside of the NFL that could beat the Super Bowl Champions. In any given year, MAYBE a small handful of teams elsewhere in the world could take the MLB, NBA, or NHL champ in a series.

Yet the top half of the table of any major European league could probably beat the MLS champs. Until that is no longer the case, they'll be known as a minor league... right or wrong.

[2001mark]

Yet the top half of the table of any major European league could probably beat the MLS champs. Until that is no longer the case, they'll be known as a minor league... right or wrong.

To that point, an MLS side making it to a FIFA Club World Cup final would be a huge boost. It's one thing to play a Euro side in the dead of summer when nothing much matters except pride.

It'd be quite another to face a powerhouse with credible result on the line.

Think a possible global AFL-Jets-Namath breakthrough.

Hell, FIFA would be wise to let an American city host a couple. Not sure why they're not lining up for that, it's not a tough tourney to put together.

[rams80]

Yet the top half of the table of any major European league could probably beat the MLS champs. Until that is no longer the case, they'll be known as a minor league... right or wrong.

To that point, an MLS side making it to a FIFA Club World Cup final would be a huge boost. It's one thing to play a Euro side in the dead of summer when nothing much matters except pride.

It'd be quite another to face a powerhouse with credible result on the line.

Think a possible global AFL-Jets-Namath breakthrough.

Hell, FIFA would be wise to let an American city host a couple. Not sure why they're not lining up for that, it's not a tough tourney to put together.

The problem with this idea is that the UEFA sides by and large don't give a crap about the FIFA Club World Cup. Oh sure they've won the majority of them, but that's kind of a thing that should happen on paper.