Do you consider the MLS a major sports league in North America?

[2001mark]

Okay, sorry. I guess I should have worded that better, but my point still stands. There's no reason why there can't be more than four major leagues. I mean, so what if MLS beats the NHL or NBA in popularity? will hockey or hoops suddenly no longer be relevant?

Well, to its point, there are millions of boys & girls who play soccer in N.America without much of a domestic dream (of fanfare, celebrity, etc like the NBA, NFL, MLB, & NHL have to offer*).

If MLS can reach its expansion sweet spot before further dilution, perhaps it can garner generational growth.... with fewer teens abandoning the sport.

Alas... even with health & safety, the Big 4 had the luxury of television sports' golden era. MLS has been born into the 900 channel era & most ppl barely even watch tv any more.

[The Six]

MLS often wonders why it isn't treated like a major professional league in the U.S., and now we have an answer. Because it doesn't act like one.

Good article in the Times about the questionable structure of this league. http://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-soccer-baxter-20150308-story.html

[-kj]

I thought that was a poorly-concepted article at best.

[48erhater]

While donating plasma today the guy next to me was talking to the phlebotomist. He told the guy Real Salt Lake played to a draw yesterday. The phlebotomist was so confused about what he was talking about. He had no idea he was talking about soccer.

[Seadragon76]

I've always felt that the Big Four were the NFL, the NBA, MLB and the NHL.

MLS sits at the kiddie table alongside the CFL and the Arena League. The big difference is that while the CFL and the Arena League are niche leagues in their respective sports, MLS is the top league in it's respective sport for the United States and Canada (Mexicans will probably argue that Liga MX is better).

The thing is, any of the big four are one big massive labor issue away from falling... even the NFL, as untouchable as it seems today. Once that happens, MLS needs to take advantage fast or risk seeing that proverbial window slam down on it's hands.

[Gothamite]

I think MLS is already well above Arena League. They have to be looking at the NHL, clearly the weak link in that Big 4. If soccer keeps growing, and MLS can capitalize on that love of the sport, they have a lot of upside. This CBA is a step in the right direction.

[2001mark]

MLS sits at the kiddie table alongside the CFL and the Arena League.

I, & probably most Canadians, would beg to differ having the Arena League on par with the CFL. Arena League isn't real football, it's like a stunt.

Sure the CFL is not NFL lite, even though it kinda is what with all the freak NCAAF athletes too small for the NFL. Those guys on the bigger field, it's legit.

[bosrs1]

MLS sits at the kiddie table alongside the CFL and the Arena League.

I, & probably most Canadians, would beg to differ having the Arena League on par with the CFL. Arena League isn't real football, it's like a stunt.

Sure the CFL is not NFL lite, even though it kinda is what with all the freak NCAAF athletes too small for the NFL. Those guys on the bigger field, it's legit.

Agreed. CFL is a different animal. It's not a US league so it's outside of what we traditionally consider to be the "big 4" and even the context that MLS lives in, but that doesn't mean it's not a top level pro league. It's a different sport, different smaller country. And yet they still are the second most popular league in Canada, get attendance on average surpassed by only the NFL and MLB, and they get solid TV ratings. I mean if they had any kind of US presence you might be able to make some sort of comparison but since they're not it's apples and oranges.

[Magnus]

I'm actually going to use hockey as a means to show why World Cup enthusiasm will not translate into MLS support. At least not in high enough numbers to challenge even the NHL.

The 1990s saw a rise in the profile of international hockey tournaments. The World Cup, NHLers going to the Olympics starting with Nagano, etc... There was a huge upswing in viewership. Many casual American fans who never gave the NHL more then a passing glance were suddenly excited about the prospect of seeing Team USA take on Team Russia or those dastardly...Czechs, I guess?

Not the Czechs. The Russians and the Canadians are the only team Americans would get excited to watch hockey against. IMHO.

--

On topic, I feel like because we have had the Big 4 for so much longer, that unless one of the Big 4 loses major popularity, MLS won't get into Big 4 territory any time soon.

I think it's also a question of disposable moolah. In most of the world, the domestic football league is the most popular spectator sport, correct?

In North America, it is either NFL (USA) or NHL (Canada). If MLS were ever to achieve Big 4 money, it would likely be at the expense of the other established sports leagues, or perhaps college sports, I feel.

[Cosmic]

In North America, it is either NFL (USA) or NHL (Canada). If MLS were ever to achieve Big 4 money, it would likely be at the expense of the other established sports leagues, or perhaps college sports, I feel.

Or are potential MLS fans not spending much money currently on the Big 4 sports?

[gosioux76]

Maybe this has been asked before in this thread and I missed it, but why does there only have to be a Big 4? I don't think the MLS needs to supplant NHL in order to be viewed as a major league. If anything, both leagues are growing. MLS is just growing at a faster pace, which you'd expect when comparing a 20-year-old league to one that's nearly 100 years old.

[gosioux76]

Maybe this has been asked before in this thread and I missed it, but why does there only have to be a Big 4? I don't think the MLS needs to supplant NHL in order to be viewed as a major league. If anything, both leagues are growing. MLS is just growing at a faster pace, which you'd expect when comparing a 20-year-old league to one that's nearly 100 years old.

The thing with MLS is that it competes with not only the Big 4 but with a bunch of other soccer leagues around the world for popularity. It isn't going to be on the level of popularity of the Big 4 just on the merits of soccer growing unless something happens to one of the Big 5 in Europe, so the MLS is gonna have to rely on one of the major leagues in the US to take a hit before it achieves that level, imo.

That being said, I think it's really amazing that America has a Big 4; I'd say more often than not countries only care deeply about one sport, so that we are even thinking of America having five different sports leagues supported at a high level speaks levels of the sports culture here

There seems to be two separate and distinct arguments being used in this thread to define what is or isn't "major league."

One is that to be "major league" the league must be the best among its peers worldwide. Certainly, MLS doesn't meet that standard in the same way the NFL, NHL, NBA and MLB do. But I also find this — and, well, this whole discussion I suppose — to be far too arbitrary to matter. If you're from Mexico, would you consider Liga MX minor league? Should Canadians consider the CFL something other than a "major league" because it doesn't represent the pinnacle of the sport? Of course not.

The other argument seems hinged to this notion that the U.S. can only have four major leagues. Therefore, as Kaz says in the above quote, one of the other leagues would have to "take a hit" for MLS to rise into the four slot. Consider this: MLS clubs last year averaged more than 19,000 fans per game. The NHL and NBA averaged about 17,400. Now, I get that the NBA and NHL play in smaller venues. But I'm not trying to make an argument that MLS is bigger or more popular than the NHL or the NBA, but that it should be given more consideration as being similar in stature to those two leagues. At least more consideration than it gets now.

The wildcard in this, of course, is TV viewership. MLS lags there considerably, though I'm certain the new ESPN/FOX contract will bump those ratings considerably.

[dfwabel]

Maybe this has been asked before in this thread and I missed it, but why does there only have to be a Big 4? I don't think the MLS needs to supplant NHL in order to be viewed as a major league. If anything, both leagues are growing. MLS is just growing at a faster pace, which you'd expect when comparing a 20-year-old league to one that's nearly 100 years old.

The thing with MLS is that it competes with not only the Big 4 but with a bunch of other soccer leagues around the world for popularity. It isn't going to be on the level of popularity of the Big 4 just on the merits of soccer growing unless something happens to one of the Big 5 in Europe, so the MLS is gonna have to rely on one of the major leagues in the US to take a hit before it achieves that level, imo.

That being said, I think it's really amazing that America has a Big 4; I'd say more often than not countries only care deeply about one sport, so that we are even thinking of America having five different sports leagues supported at a high level speaks levels of the sports culture here

There seems to be two separate and distinct arguments being used in this thread to define what is or isn't "major league."

One is that to be "major league" the league must be the best among its peers worldwide. Certainly, MLS doesn't meet that standard in the same way the NFL, NHL, NBA and MLB do. But I also find this — and, well, this whole discussion I suppose — to be far too arbitrary to matter. If you're from Mexico, would you consider Liga MX minor league? Should Canadians consider the CFL something other than a "major league" because it doesn't represent the pinnacle of the sport? Of course not.

The other argument seems hinged to this notion that the U.S. can only have four major leagues. Therefore, as Kaz says in the above quote, one of the other leagues would have to "take a hit" for MLS to rise into the four slot. Consider this: MLS clubs last year averaged more than 19,000 fans per game. The NHL and NBA averaged about 17,400. Now, I get that the NBA and NHL play in smaller venues. But I'm not trying to make an argument that MLS is bigger or more popular than the NHL or the NBA, but that it should be given more consideration as being similar in stature to those two leagues. At least more consideration than it gets now.

The wildcard in this, of course, is TV viewership. MLS lags there considerably, though I'm certain the new ESPN/FOX contract will bump those ratings considerably.

Well, that is the little secret item which goes unmentioned.

Liga MX has better ratings and younger demographics than MLS. Liga MX IS their competition and while both Telemundo and Univision are over the air stations, Univision Desportes and UniMAS are cable; Univision Desportes is only in 38M households and still doubles up on typical MLS cable games.

Regardless of Chivas USA, in the last 20 years, the USA has gotten "browner" and MLS really was asleep at the wheel in an attempt to capture that audience.

[IceCap]

I think MLS is already well above Arena League. They have to be looking at the NHL, clearly the weak link in that Big 4. If soccer keeps growing, and MLS can capitalize on that love of the sport, they have a lot of upside. This CBA is a step in the right direction.

As I said, even the NHL seems to be beyond MLS' reach. Last year's MLS Cup drew just a little more then this year's NHL All-Star Game. Stanley Cup Finals ratings are above and beyond what MLS can pull and the tv money isn't even close. Especially when you factor in the NHL's Canadian tv deal. Incidentally this country's the reason MLS will never overtake the NHL in the North American sports landscape.

[2001mark]

As I said, even the NHL seems to be beyond MLS' reach. Last year's MLS Cup drew just a little more then this year's NHL All-Star Game. Stanley Cup Finals ratings are above and beyond what MLS can pull and the tv money isn't even close. Especially when you factor in the NHL's Canadian tv deal. Incidentally this country's the reason MLS will never overtake the NHL in the North American sports landscape.

A concern that I admit I'm as guilty as any about - once August finishes up, MLS landscape seems to evaporate.

I couldn't tell you when the MLS Cup is, has been, usually is, etc.

That's a problem, & I'm a TFC fan. (to that point, they've yet to make the playoffs ever, so my radar hasn't been up)

[AnPheitseog]

It's Hard when games are only once a week to keep and sustain interest.

NFL would have the same issue, if the situations were reversed.

[Gothamite]

It's Hard when games are only once a week to keep and sustain interest.

I can't believe that's true for any significant percentage of the population. Rather the opposite, in fact.

That's one of the strengths of the NFL; event games, with loads of talk and build-up all week leading up to them.

[gosioux76]

As I said, even the NHL seems to be beyond MLS' reach. Last year's MLS Cup drew just a little more then this year's NHL All-Star Game. Stanley Cup Finals ratings are above and beyond what MLS can pull and the tv money isn't even close. Especially when you factor in the NHL's Canadian tv deal. Incidentally this country's the reason MLS will never overtake the NHL in the North American sports landscape.

A concern that I admit I'm as guilty as any about - once August finishes up, MLS landscape seems to evaporate.

I couldn't tell you when the MLS Cup is, has been, usually is, etc.

That's a problem, & I'm a TFC fan. (to that point, they've yet to make the playoffs ever, so my radar hasn't been up)

This is a great point and, in my mind, the MLS' biggest problem. The league does a fantastic job of promoting the start of the season (The Orlando/NYCFC match on Sunday was a perfect example. That felt like a momentous event.) But it's terrible at making its most important matches rise above the noise. The MLS playoffs are barely noticeable in the fall college and pro football and the World Series.

[FinsUp1214]

I'm late to the thread here and this is really only a response to the original post, but for me personally, I consider it a major league - strictly coming from the angle of how you treat and view it rather than where it ranks in this category or the other. Mostly because all we've got here in Utah is the Jazz and RSL, my foremost "sports attention", so to say, goes to those teams. I suppose this would all depend of course on which market you'd live in, but for a smaller market like Utah, you cherish the little you've got. So you treat what you do have like it's the biggest show in town, and I can say that RSL is treated like royalty here (pun not intended).

Now again, I'm coming at this strictly from a personal viewpoint with the experiences I've had rooting for RSL. I would totally understand if someone from LA or New York would have a different opinion, considering other sports and leagues have had greater pull and prominence. So again, I feel like it depends on what you've got. So here in Utah, the MLS is treated like it's a big deal, because aside from the Jazz, that's the only other big deal you've got. Not to mention, it also helps that over the last few years, RSL's been pretty much the only good team here at all.

[Gothamite]

That's a good point - ask Orlando if they think it's a major league. Heck, Portland chose MLS over minor league baseball (and a shot at the bigs).