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North American Pro Soccer 2015


Sodboy13

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St. Louis' new USL-Pro team kicked off their inaugural season at Louisville City FC this weekend. I happened to driving through Louisville. Unfortunately I couldn't time it quite right, but I did get into Louisville Slugger Field (the baseball stadium) to catch the last 30+. The level of soccer was alright—largely dominated by Louisville City, but the atmosphere in Louisville was great. Well-attended. And there was also a decent sized and notably loud STL contingent that had traveled down.

It was fun, and I'm looking forward to the season.

Just thought I'd share.

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Yep, that's what it is.

But among the four teams, none of them want to be second division. The reserve sides belong in a third division, developing players rather than trying to make money. And the Rhinos specifically chose to be in the third division. So those photos are not the best argument against letting the USL (or part of the USL) make a play for 2D status.

It was a joke. There are plenty of teams out there right now that have great support in the USL and at least 2 of those are reserve teams. However, by those reserve teams being part of the league making a play for it, they are saying they want to be D2. The USL isn't proposing leaving those teams behind, those teams haven't said they would stay behind, they are proposing bringing the whole league up to D2.

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Well, we don't actually know that. The USL hasn't yet revealed anything more than a vague ambition to get back into the D2 business.

The USL has a rather schizophrenic quality at the moment, with some teams ready to step up to second division and others patently unqualified to do so. The business model of teams like Galaxy 2 and T2 is ultimately incompatible with that used by St. Louis FC and the Rochester Rhinos. I wouldn't be surprised to see them either leave behind the reserve sides to form their own league or split the USL into separate leagues, one for profit generators and one for talent developers.

But again, that's all only speculation.

As for the four teams pictured, however, there's no indication that the reserve sides would stay in the USL if they went to D2. And the fourth team, the Rochester Rhinos, chose D3 over D2 a couple years ago. We don't know if they're interested in moving either.

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Those teams don't, and that's the problem.

I think we're going to see USL split back into two leagues; a Division 2 league whose primary purpose is to make money on competitive soccer games, and a Division 3 with all the affiliate clubs whose primary purpose is to develop young players.

Right now the league has some teams focused on the former and some focused on the latter, and that's just not sustainable.

I'd be a fan of that if/when NASL implodes and whoever is left from that would be part of the Div 2 USL. I'd rather not see a 1 | 1.5 | 2 | 3 model, but 1 | 2 | 3 is how NA soccer would ideally look like in say, 2025.

Interesting theory and I think you are right. I've heard talked NASL is announcing some expansion clubs in the next 6-8 weeks probably out west.

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Well, we don't actually know that. The USL hasn't yet revealed anything more than a vague ambition to get back into the D2 business.

The USL has a rather schizophrenic quality at the moment, with some teams ready to step up to second division and others patently unqualified to do so. The business model of teams like Galaxy 2 and T2 is ultimately incompatible with that used by St. Louis FC and the Rochester Rhinos. I wouldn't be surprised to see them either leave behind the reserve sides to form their own league or split the USL into separate leagues, one for profit generators and one for talent developers.

But again, that's all only speculation.

As for the four teams pictured, however, there's no indication that the reserve sides would stay in the USL if they went to D2. And the fourth team, the Rochester Rhinos, chose D3 over D2 a couple years ago. We don't know if they're interested in moving either.

I don't think its speculation if they'll apply for D2 status, they've announced it when they unveiled their new identity. And if that doesn't include the reserve teams, why did the MLS partner with the USL? They just disbanded a reserve league. Why would they join the USL to just have the USL split into a Pro league and a reserve league? Why are they seeking Division 2 status if its true one of their independent teams doesn't want it?

I agree with you that they are basically a awkward union of 2 different leagues at this point: A reserve league and a professional one.

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The NASL needs to expand or die. They've just lost one of their better markets, and they need at least one franchise in the Western time zone just to maintain their D2 status.

That being said, let's hope this goes better than their most recent round of expansion, two teams, neither of which will ever play a game.

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All I know about NASL I learned from this BigSoccer piece: http://www.bigsoccer.com/blog/2015/3/20/can-the-cosmos-really-manage-to-destroy-the-nasl-twice

My read is that there are too many soccer leagues and not enough markets in the right places. And I'm not clear on what exact benefit the NASL is providing by being divorced from MLS proper.

They've been a nice nesting ground for future MLS franchises, but that can't continue indefinitely.

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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Speaking for those 2 failures without mentioning the successes of Indy and Jacksonville is like talking about Miami and Chivas without mentioning Orlando and NyCFC...

Oh, piffle.

Miami and Chivas were seventeen and eleven years ago, respectively. The league has expanded seven times since then, adding nine franchises (including some of the most successful markets in the league).

Conversely, the NASL fell on its face on their most recent round of expansion. I didn't say they have a long history of embarrassing expansion blunders, but they have to own their most recent ones. And I was expressing the hope that their rather desperate need to expand again now didn't cause them to repeat the mistakes they just made.

False equivalence is false. :P

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I'm talking the current Miami face plant. But please prove my point by ignoring it ;)

And Chivas was a failure from the beginning. Just because The MLS wouldn't let it die doesn't mean it was ever successful.

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I'm talking the current Miami face plant. But please prove my point by ignoring it ;)

And Chivas was a failure from the beginning. Just because The MLS wouldn't let it die doesn't mean it was ever successful.

You're right. Chivas was an unmitigated disaster. But that bad choice was made eleven years ago, and they learned enough to fix their mistake.

I hadn't even thought about the current Miami situation. Because for all his faults, and he has many, Garber hasn't actually let that expansion happen. You're ignoring the fact that the NASL officially announced two expansion teams, put links to their sites on the main NASL site, and then had to watch as each bid crashed and burned before they could ever play a game. Again, for all the many problems MLS has, that's not one of them.

As I said, false equivalence is false.

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St. Louis' new USL-Pro team kicked off their inaugural season at Louisville City FC this weekend. I happened to driving through Louisville. Unfortunately I couldn't time it quite right, but I did get into Louisville Slugger Field (the baseball stadium) to catch the last 30+. The level of soccer was alright—largely dominated by Louisville City, but the atmosphere in Louisville was great. Well-attended. And there was also a decent sized and notably loud STL contingent that had traveled down.

It was fun, and I'm looking forward to the season.

Just thought I'd share.

I'd love for Louisville City to eventually find a home at Cardinal Stadium, provided they want to fix it up. Splitting time between baseball and soccer fields always leads to problems, even if the location is nice.

But I don't think the NASL is on the ropes yet. Just because it's not expanding doesn't mean the league is in bad shape right? They have an ESPN3 contract, and the teams are growing every year. And who's to say they don't go down and scalp teams from the USL? Would you rather have teams travel 3000 miles to San Diego to play at a soccer stadium at SDSU, or bring up teams like Richmond and Rochester that are older than the MLS? Stability is the goal, right?

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But here's the thing - in order to maintain their D2 status, they need at least one team in the Western time zone. It's a requirement to be certified by the USSF. So teams are going to be traveling 3,000 miles to play whether they like it or not.

It's not that the NASL wants to expand to California, although I'm sure they want to. But right now they're being forced to, and not on their own timetable. Given how badly the last particular round of expansion went for them, I'm hoping that havig to meet the USSF's deadline doesn't cause another very bad choice.

I don't mean to suggest that they're on the ropes. They're not. But what they do or don't do in the next year will probably determine their place in the pyramid for decades to come.

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I'm talking the current Miami face plant. But please prove my point by ignoring it ;)

And Chivas was a failure from the beginning. Just because The MLS wouldn't let it die doesn't mean it was ever successful.

You lose points for calling it "The MLS"

You wouldn't call it "The Major League Baseball" so "The Major League Soccer" is also incorrect. It's just "MLS".

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But here's the thing - in order to maintain their D2 status, they need at least one team in the Western time zone. It's a requirement to be certified by the USSF. So teams are going to be traveling 3,000 miles to play whether they like it or not.

It's not that the NASL wants to expand to California, although I'm sure they want to. But right now they're being forced to, and not on their own timetable. Given how badly the last particular round of expansion went for them, I'm hoping that havig to meet the USSF's deadline doesn't cause another very bad choice.

I don't mean to suggest that they're on the ropes. They're not. But what they do or don't do in the next year will probably determine their place in the pyramid for decades to come.

Problem they have though... there's only really one maybe two markets left in the Pacific Time Zone for them to take. Seattle, Portland, The Bay Area, and the Greater LA area are already firmly in MLS' pocket (doubly so in LA). USL has already laid claim quite definitely to Sacramento, and has teams occupying the Greater LA area, Portland and Seattle, and have a group near being granted a team in Las Vegas.

That leaves NASL really only San Diego and possibly the Inland Empire as possible landing spots. And word is they're not talking with anyone from the IE, and any discussions with regard to San Diego seem VERY preliminary. The only places they've shown any extended interest in are LA proper, which is insane due to the quadruple saturation of the other two leagues, and the Bay Area. And in the Bay Area they've been focused mainly on San Francisco proper, where there are no long term facilities for them, and the cost to build a D2 specific facility would be cost prohibitive.

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I think the NASL could carve out a niche in San Francisco if they could find a place to play in the city. Not necessarily 20,000 worth, but a very respectable Division 2 6-7K.

Would still require building a stadium, preferably on the waterfront or very close by as that's where those who attend sporting events in SF tend to congregate. But that's also a Catch 22 as it's the most expensive part of the city to build in.

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Agreed. As I said earlier, the Earthquakes are pretty lousy, and a strong NASL team could seriously make some competition with them in terms of popularity in the Bay Area.

I think a team in San Diego could also work. It certainly would be more sensible than the LA area for a SoCal team.

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