Re-Branding: ECHL:San Francisco Bulls

[CyGuy5]

Also I wanna say that I blame my ability not the program.

Don't blame your ability, blame the fact that you did not work harder on this.

Can I just say, and I'm not trying to be mean or offensive, but your criticism can get a bit over hand. I've noticed that you become a bit too rude when you see something you don't like. If you can give actual criticism instead of going on about how bad, or unwanted the thing or person's work is, it would be greatly appreciated, because some people just aren't probably in the same level or as great as you in concepts or they're just beginners and getting the hang of things.

I understand that I might be coming off as harsh, and I apologize. However, the errors here aren't because of his ability, it is because it needs to be worked much harder on. Practice, tutorials, and anything like that really helps. I do not hate this, however this can be definitely worked on. Rather than blaming it on something, you should much rather work on this harder and practice much, much more.

Your C&C is fine dude. Youre just like most members here who get tired of seeing the same users post countless bad threads.

I've gave biscuits c&c when I thought his work wad promising. He chose to ignore it and start 4 different projects. His recent blatant ignorance is why people are reluctant to give him actual c&c.

ok you have a major point in my work. Maybe I should seriously focus on one set at a time. I am about to admit something big. I have ADHD. no not a joke.I went to the doctor and the diagnosis was ADHD. Been taking meds and im .09% better. I haven't mentioned this because I was scared how y'all were going to react. So that's why I haven't taken any c&c even though I have been asking for it. So there you go. Make of it what you will. I apologize if this has gotten in the way and giving two damns about logos. Been trying to get better but I just plain haven't. I will still keep posting but idk how any of the problems im facing are going to make my work.

It sucks that you have ADHD... Your concepts will get better over time and I can't wait to see them. Hope the meds help you.

[biscuit faces of them]

Also I wanna say that I blame my ability not the program.

Don't blame your ability, blame the fact that you did not work harder on this.

Can I just say, and I'm not trying to be mean or offensive, but your criticism can get a bit over hand. I've noticed that you become a bit too rude when you see something you don't like. If you can give actual criticism instead of going on about how bad, or unwanted the thing or person's work is, it would be greatly appreciated, because some people just aren't probably in the same level or as great as you in concepts or they're just beginners and getting the hang of things.

I understand that I might be coming off as harsh, and I apologize. However, the errors here aren't because of his ability, it is because it needs to be worked much harder on. Practice, tutorials, and anything like that really helps. I do not hate this, however this can be definitely worked on. Rather than blaming it on something, you should much rather work on this harder and practice much, much more.

Your C&C is fine dude. Youre just like most members here who get tired of seeing the same users post countless bad threads.

I've gave biscuits c&c when I thought his work wad promising. He chose to ignore it and start 4 different projects. His recent blatant ignorance is why people are reluctant to give him actual c&c.

ok you have a major point in my work. Maybe I should seriously focus on one set at a time. I am about to admit something big. I have ADHD. no not a joke.I went to the doctor and the diagnosis was ADHD. Been taking meds and im .09% better. I haven't mentioned this because I was scared how y'all were going to react. So that's why I haven't taken any c&c even though I have been asking for it. So there you go. Make of it what you will. I apologize if this has gotten in the way and giving two damns about logos. Been trying to get better but I just plain haven't. I will still keep posting but idk how any of the problems im facing are going to make my work.

It sucks that you have ADHD... Your concepts will get better over time and I can't wait to see them. Hope the meds help you.

Thanks. Appreciate it

[Spartan24898]

Biscuit, PaperThin is absolutely right, he just said it a little bluntly. No one, especially someone like you who is just learning how to design logos and work with computer design programs, can churn out logos daily like you are doing and expect good results. I totally understand having trouble focusing on a project, I feel the same way sometimes, but if you want a quality result you have to work hard. My suggestion is to pick one project that you are the most excited about (seems like for you that would be your wrl) and really perfect it. Take a week or two without posting a concept, learn the program, until you have a product you are happy with. THEN post it on these boards, and all the fantastic designers on here can help you turn a good product into a great one. But it's impossible to help you if you post every idea that pops into your head. You don't have to post anything perfect, but make sure it's good and you've worked on it for a little while. Also, learn from the people on here that post high quality concepts, really pay attention to what they do and how much time they spend on their work. I watched and learned from the boards for a long time before I even considered posting my own concepts. And I'm still learning as I go, I look back at some of my posts and what I am coming up with now is already way better. I think you definitely have talent for this (you're already ahead of me in terms of using a computer for design) and you're clearly very enthusiastic about logo design. Take your time, and you'll be contributing some great concepts to these boards in no time.

[biscuit faces of them]

Biscuit, PaperThin is absolutely right, he just said it a little bluntly. No one, especially someone like you who is just learning how to design logos and work with computer design programs, can churn out logos daily like you are doing and expect good results. I totally understand having trouble focusing on a project, I feel the same way sometimes, but if you want a quality result you have to work hard. My suggestion is to pick one project that you are the most excited about (seems like for you that would be your wrl) and really perfect it. Take a week or two without posting a concept, learn the program, until you have a product you are happy with. THEN post it on these boards, and all the fantastic designers on here can help you turn a good product into a great one. But it's impossible to help you if you post every idea that pops into your head. You don't have to post anything perfect, but make sure it's good and you've worked on it for a little while. Also, learn from the people on here that post high quality concepts, really pay attention to what they do and how much time they spend on their work. I watched and learned from the boards for a long time before I even considered posting my own concepts. And I'm still learning as I go, I look back at some of my posts and what I am coming up with now is already way better. I think you definitely have talent for this (you're already ahead of me in terms of using a computer for design) and you're clearly very enthusiastic about logo design. Take your time, and you'll be contributing some great concepts to these boards in no time.

Thanks. The WRL is still in piliminary development as far as schedule and a finalized lineup. The NATCC is kind of a scrap. So ill focus on this set for now. Thanks for your patience, understanding,and advice. Look forward to doing more and seeing all your guy's work

[biscuit faces of them]

https://flic.kr/p/dTUxF2

also this is what i was going for in the alternate. Anyway Any promotional suggestions for this

[T-ROY]

Inkscape may be too advanced for beginners. I would suggest using Paint.NET. It's what I started using to make concepts and I have been using it since. It's much easier to comprehend than Inkscape. There is also much room to improve using the program upon adding plugins which I believe you can find \t their website where you can also download it.

And if there's any advice I can give, it is for you to just slow down. Take some time to practice and to learn the programs. Also it might help to focus on one thread that is huge (like a complete re-design of a league) than to have many threads about a singular idea. That way you can focus on one thread, yet have a multitude of concepts. But remember, slow down.

[biscuit faces of them]

Inkscape may be too advanced for beginners. I would suggest using Paint.NET. It's what I started using to make concepts and I have been using it since. It's much easier to comprehend than Inkscape. There is also much room to improve using the program upon adding plugins which I believe you can find \t their website where you can also download it.

And if there's any advice I can give, it is for you to just slow down. Take some time to practice and to learn the programs. Also it might help to focus on one thread that is huge (like a complete re-design of a league) than to have many threads about a singular idea. That way you can focus on one thread, yet have a multitude of concepts. But remember, slow down.

thx. I have just a notebook of wrl ideas. Im going to focus on this one for now and look at the notebook only once in a while. Thanks for the advice and looking forward to doing this Redesign of my hometown echl team

[Guest darkpiranha]

I agree with all the above posters. It's hard to give you C&C because we know by now that you aren't going to implement it, and that by the time we even post any advice, you've already posted another three or four fast concepts. So the main advice you need to first take is SLOW DOWN.

You've made us aware of your ADHD, and we appreciate that and sympathize You won't find anyone here making fun of you because of it. BUT... that doesn't give you a pass to crank out half-formed concepts with little or no attention to detail. You're a big boy, and we ARE here to help, so you have to LET us help you. First order of business is to give us permission to help you refocus down to one or two projects. You need to take a break right now, go through all the concepts you've rushed out over the past month, and pick one or two that you are most passionate about. Not a league or series, just a single logo. Make us aware of what this logo/project is. And then start working on honing your skills with Inkscape and/or GIMP. Use this one logo to get laser-focused on learning the basic tools and techniques needed to create some logos that allow you to truly create stuff, not just use tracing functions.

There are tons of YouTube tutorials to get you started. Do it on a tool by tool basis. Learn how to use the Bezier tools. Learn how shapes interact with each other. Don't just trace an image, learn how to rebuild it from scratch. You kind of just need to go through the toolbars and menus systematically, while having the logo you're working on opened up as your test project. It'll take a while, but you'll appreciate it down the line. Everyone here has gone through this process in some fashion. And we've seen people with far less talent than you're starting off with evolve into creating some amazing stuff.

So let us help you be that next person. Declare your passion project/logo, and then let us hold you accountable to staying with it. When you start popping up with other concepts, we'll gently (some of us, anyway) remind you that you need to be working on your skills and on that logo. We know you have ADHD, we'll make sure you stay focused.

[biscuit faces of them]

I agree with all the above posters. It's hard to give you C&C because we know by now that you aren't going to implement it, and that by the time we even post any advice, you've already posted another three or four fast concepts. So the main advice you need to first take is SLOW DOWN.

You've made us aware of your ADHD, and we appreciate that and sympathize You won't find anyone here making fun of you because of it. BUT... that doesn't give you a pass to crank out half-formed concepts with little or no attention to detail. You're a big boy, and we ARE here to help, so you have to LET us help you. First order of business is to give us permission to help you refocus down to one or two projects. You need to take a break right now, go through all the concepts you've rushed out over the past month, and pick one or two that you are most passionate about. Not a league or series, just a single logo. Make us aware of what this logo/project is. And then start working on honing your skills with Inkscape and/or GIMP. Use this one logo to get laser-focused on learning the basic tools and techniques needed to create some logos that allow you to truly create stuff, not just use tracing functions.

There are tons of YouTube tutorials to get you started. Do it on a tool by tool basis. Learn how to use the Bezier tools. Learn how shapes interact with each other. Don't just trace an image, learn how to rebuild it from scratch. You kind of just need to go through the toolbars and menus systematically, while having the logo you're working on opened up as your test project. It'll take a while, but you'll appreciate it down the line. Everyone here has gone through this process in some fashion. And we've seen people with far less talent than you're starting off with evolve into creating some amazing stuff.

So let us help you be that next person. Declare your passion project/logo, and then let us hold you accountable to staying with it. When you start popping up with other concepts, we'll gently (some of us, anyway) remind you that you need to be working on your skills and on that logo. We know you have ADHD, we'll make sure you stay focused.

I appreciate that thank you. I am going to focus on this one for now. I never used the ADHD as an excuse just to quickly point that out. I appreciate the help and look forward to getting better.

[biscuit faces of them]

Ok guys here's the deal. I am going to focus on this thread for now. apologies to a few of the people I mentioned about in the WRL thead. That may start further down than expected. I am going to pretty much scrap the logo i had initialy and start from square one.HELP IS APPRECIATED. i apologize if i haven't taken it seriously before. i was looking at this as a guest before i initialy joined and never knew the full expertize in these logos. Doing something a little different, ill be screenshotting you progress every so often so that i can get c&c and actually USE IT. Thank you all for your understanding and looking forward to evolving as a CCSLN member

[biscuit faces of them]

Progress Report 1

[biscuit faces of them]

Progress Report 2: I said I'd be posting the progress reports so I can actually take and use suggestions.

[HarperK]

i don't use that program, but when a logo is symmetrical...do one half and copy it to the other! saves a lot of time and makes it consistent. I actually use photoshop even tho its not the optimal program to use for logos and such. I just happened to have it when i was younger on a PC, played with it a lot, and I know it too well to learn Illustrator right now. Its all about having a program you find comfortable and sticking to your guns with that program until its almost like muscle memory when you're using it. Unless you are a professional designer the program you use isn't going to make much of a difference. Its all about how you use them.

[Guest darkpiranha]

Still going WAY too fast. For example, I'm not familiar with Inkscape, but I have to figure it has tools that allow you to draw a smooth circle. The hoop surrounding the bull's head is super rough. I'm guessing that instead of using a circle tool, you used a pen to draw from point to point to point, manually tracing a circle. THAT's the kind of thing we're talking about when we say it's rushed and too sloppy. If you don't know how to make a circle on Inkscape, simply google it. Here's what I found from a five second google search:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=how%20to%20draw%20a%20circle%20on%20inkskape

I know you like racing, but these concept forums aren't a race. There's no need to go as fast as you're going. Before proceeding, learn what every tool on that toolbar does. They all do something cool. Some make shapes. Some make lines. Some control color. Some work with text. Right now it looks like you're just using the pen tool to do everything.

So your assignment, is to halt work on this logo for now, learn all the basic tools, and then re-evaluate your idea for this logo using your new knowledge to make a nicer, cleaner logo that shows that you're taking your time. You'll be shocked at how much your design capabilities will expand simply by learning all the available tools.

[biscuit faces of them]

i don't use that program, but when a logo is symmetrical...do one half and copy it to the other! saves a lot of time and makes it consistent. I actually use photoshop even tho its not the optimal program to use for logos and such. I just happened to have it when i was younger on a PC, played with it a lot, and I know it too well to learn Illustrator right now. Its all about having a program you find comfortable and sticking to your guns with that program until its almost like muscle memory when you're using it. Unless you are a professional designer the program you use isn't going to make much of a difference. Its all about how you use them.

Ok good to know. I actually tried that in the initial redo (after the post this morning) but for some odd reason i couldn't get the thing to align. Also I think people are getting mad that i've been half ***ing my logos and only working hard at 1 part of it. Thanks for the advice though.

Still going WAY too fast. For example, I'm not familiar with Inkscape, but I have to figure it has tools that allow you to draw a smooth circle. The hoop surrounding the bull's head is super rough. I'm guessing that instead of using a circle tool, you used a pen to draw from point to point to point, manually tracing a circle. THAT's the kind of thing we're talking about when we say it's rushed and too sloppy. If you don't know how to make a circle on Inkscape, simply google it. Here's what I found from a five second google search:

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=how%20to%20draw%20a%20circle%20on%20inkskape

I know you like racing, but these concept forums aren't a race. There's no need to go as fast as you're going. Before proceeding, learn what every tool on that toolbar does. They all do something cool. Some make shapes. Some make lines. Some control color. Some work with text. Right now it looks like you're just using the pen tool to do everything.

So your assignment, is to halt work on this logo for now, learn all the basic tools, and then re-evaluate your idea for this logo using your new knowledge to make a nicer, cleaner logo that shows that you're taking your time. You'll be shocked at how much your design capabilities will expand simply by learning all the available tools.

Ok. I was trying not to use the trace tool so. Good to know.will redo the circle

[Guest darkpiranha]

Don't just re-do the circle. That wasn't the point. The point was that all parts of your logo are unnecessarily sloppy and messy simply because it's obvious you haven't taken the time to learn the tools. Learn all the tools. Then start over again on this logo. The advice and criticism you want us to give can only come after you are at a place where you have a solid understanding of the basics, even if you don't yet know how to implement it effectively. The tools on Inkscape and Photoshop and all the other graphics programs are 90% the same. You have shape tools, line tools, brushes, layers, etc. They all use the same "vocabulary". You learn one, then you'll have a good idea how all of them work, and while the specific buttons or tools might not be the same, the underlying concept or type of tool WILL be the same.

Deep breaths! Slow down. Google is your friend.

[biscuit faces of them]

Don't just re-do the circle. That wasn't the point. The point was that all parts of your logo are unnecessarily sloppy and messy simply because it's obvious you haven't taken the time to learn the tools. Learn all the tools. Then start over again on this logo. The advice and criticism you want us to give can only come after you are at a place where you have a solid understanding of the basics, even if you don't yet know how to implement it effectively. The tools on Inkscape and Photoshop and all the other graphics programs are 90% the same. You have shape tools, line tools, brushes, layers, etc. They all use the same "vocabulary". You learn one, then you'll have a good idea how all of them work, and while the specific buttons or tools might not be the same, the underlying concept or type of tool WILL be the same.

Deep breaths! Slow down. Google is your friend.

I've used inkscape before in my Digital Arts Class 2 years ago. However I do see where you are getting at. I do need a refresher (this is gonna be an all niter). Ill redo the logo (was thinking about losing the hockey sticks on it anyway and then go from there.

[1clkgtramg]

I would highly suggest Paint.NET as it is basic, but still has all the tools you need without the complicating junk. I only use Inkscape for turning PNG into SVG format, but everytime I've tried to draw on Inkscape, it's ended up horrible. And what I have learned in the past is to nearly finish the full project before posting. This way when you get C&C, you can implement that, perfect that logo/jersey and then post the next and repeat. Just my advice, I know being new can be a little rough, took me until last year to finally post anything but because of the methods I mentioned above, I was able to post decent material as a whole without many of these beginner issues that you are running into.

[biscuit faces of them]

After 3 nonstop sleepless nights of learning the program here is the first logo

[Spartan24898]

You're still rushing. I don't think 3 nights is quite what anyone had in mind when they said take your time. These programs are complicated, and it takes a lot more time than that to learn how to use them well. I guarantee that if you ask anyone on these boards who puts out great computerized work, they would tell you that they worked with the program for MUCH longer, and they're probably still learning new tricks that make their work even better.

Now I know you're excited, and that's good. I think you have potential to put out some great concepts in the future because you have so much passion for it. But you need to put aside your excitement to get a concept out RIGHT NOW. I would say that you need a few weeks, at the bare minimum, to get your skill level up to the point where you can post a quality concept. I've been learning how to use illustrator for a couple months now, and I still don't feel I'm good enough at it to post any logo concepts using it. Stay active on the boards, learn from the people here, but be patient with your own concepts and work on them on your own until they are at a high enough level for posting here.

In terms of the actual logo, I would like to see a little more creativity, right now you just slapped a 49ers SF on the current bulls logo (by the way, that gradient won't work, you wouldn't be able to see the initials from any distance). I personally think you should distance yourself from their logo. Try to get the old bulls logo out of your head and create something that is YOURS.