NBA Changes 2015-16 Season

[CubsFanBudMan]

The Sixers weren't clowning anything. Hinkie has an approach that can work only in the long term; the intervening bad seasons are part of the process.

Second sentence disproves the first: "no, I meant for this top draft pick not to work out, the real top draft pick will be here next year!" over and over and over

Hinkie's plan sure is unorthodox. But, by hiring him and empowering him to implement that plan, the team's ownership is obligated to let him see it through. Hamstringing him mid-way is a betrayal.

They hold no obligation to Hinkie. He works for them. If a bunch of team owners call up Adam Silver and say "hey, these guys are intentionally cratering their team so they can trade draft picks for more draft picks or something, something smells funny," you should probably cut the crap.

I don't even see what's so unorthodox about it, beyond the fact that there's no end in sight, which is less an innovation than it is a failure. Teams have been bottoming out for years, but there's generally some sort of roadmap once you get your high pick. The Sixers seemed like they were going to keep resetting the cycle until they were happy with a LeBron-esque player, and good luck with that. There's also the fact that the Sixers circumvented the salary floor in the process, which means the NBA's increasingly contentious players' union now has a beef. They outsmarted themselves.

Yes, their strategy as I understand it is exactly that. The potential value of a future draft pick is always greater than the one they just picked No. 1.

That's an endless cycle.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

The Sixers weren't clowning anything. Hinkie has an approach that can work only in the long term; the intervening bad seasons are part of the process.

Second sentence disproves the first: "no, I meant for this top draft pick not to work out, the real top draft pick will be here next year!" over and over and over

Hinkie's plan sure is unorthodox. But, by hiring him and empowering him to implement that plan, the team's ownership is obligated to let him see it through. Hamstringing him mid-way is a betrayal.

They hold no obligation to Hinkie. He works for them. If a bunch of team owners call up Adam Silver and say "hey, these guys are intentionally cratering their team so they can trade draft picks for more draft picks or something, something smells funny," you should probably cut the crap.

I don't even see what's so unorthodox about it, beyond the fact that there's no end in sight, which is less an innovation than it is a failure. Teams have been bottoming out for years, but there's generally some sort of roadmap once you get your high pick. The Sixers seemed like they were going to keep resetting the cycle until they were happy with a LeBron-esque player, and good luck with that. There's also the fact that the Sixers circumvented the salary floor in the process, which means the NBA's increasingly contentious players' union now has a beef. They outsmarted themselves.

Yes, their strategy as I understand it is exactly that. The potential value of a future draft pick is always greater than the one they just picked No. 1.

That's an endless cycle.

It's not endless . At some point they will draft the superstar player around whom they can build (which will have to be a guy who doesn't have chronic injury problems, of course). And, when that time comes, they will be able to build quickly, as they have multiple picks -- even multiple first-round picks -- in several future drafts which can be used as picks or for trades.

Upthread the Admiral disputed the notion that the team has any obligation to Hinkie, saying "he works for them". My response is: "they hired him". They hired him to do a job that they knew would take several seasons; so they are indeed obligated to let him do it. If they didn't want him to do what he said all along he was going to do, they shouldn't have hired him. But once they hire him, they need to commit to his process. And they need to stand firm in defence of his strategy in response to any criticism from the league office, from other teams' front offices, or from the union.

Hinkie is setting the team up for a decade-plus run at the top of the league. If ownership cuts him down now, after they have paid in but before they have reaped the benefits, they are astoundingly foolish.

If the Sixers bail on Hinkie, it will hurt not only the team but also Hinkie himself, who would probably struggle to get another GM job. But I would love to see him running the Nets. Prokhorov seems smart enough to be able to see that the Sixers' loss of patience would be no reflection on Hinkie. And the Nets' owner has been patient so far with a GM who has no long-term plan and whose every trade, player signing, and coach hiring has been a failure; so one hopes that he'd show equally great patience to a guy who actually knows what he is doing.

[Shadojoker]

Wow, props to Lebron for committing to the Throwback look. He's wearing the headband again and the exact same old shoes he wore the last time the Cavs wore the throwback.

This image is hella old. 1) Tim Thomas has been retired for years. 2) Knicks unis are old too!! Come on really?!!

[Almighty]

Wow, props to Lebron for committing to the Throwback look. He's wearing the headband again and the exact same old shoes he wore the last time the Cavs wore the throwback.

This image is hella old. 1) Tim Thomas has been retired for years. 2) Knicks unis are old too!! Come on really?!!

Yeah Old School Fool , In fact, your right-fielder has been dead for a hundred and thirty years.

[The_Admiral]

It's not endless . At some point they will draft the superstar player

See, it's not endless, it just has an indeterminate endpoint!

And they need to stand firm in defence of his strategy in response to any criticism from the league office, from other teams' front offices, or from the union.

That's not how any of this works. Exploiting loopholes, whether in letter or in spirit, stops being an effective strategy when someone tells you to stop doing that crap you're doing. "No, screw everyone I work with, I'm gonna keep producing crap!" You must think Ted Stepien is basketball's bravest hero!

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

It's not endless . At some point they will draft the superstar player

See, it's not endless, it just has an indeterminate endpoint!

Of course the endpoint is indeterminate, because no one knows exactly which players will be available when.

And they need to stand firm in defence of his strategy in response to any criticism from the league office, from other teams' front offices, or from the union.

That's not how any of this works. Exploiting loopholes, whether in letter or in spirit, stops being an effective strategy when someone tells you to stop doing that crap you're doing. "No, screw everyone I work with, I'm gonna keep producing crap!" You must think Ted Stepien is basketball's bravest hero!

There is no exploiting of any loopholes. Hinkie has a strategy, just as Billy Beane had the strategy of signing undervalued players. Does Hinkie's strategy result in putting out bad teams in the short term? Yes. And once the process plays out, X number of years down the road, these sucky years will be seen as having been a necessary step.

Steptien was doing the exact opposite thing; he was trading away draft picks as opposed to hoarding them. Still, that, too, could be regarded as a strategy. The problem, however, was that Steptien was flying by the seat of his pants; he had no research to back up his moves. If he had had a sound basis for his trades, and if those trades had returned players who immediately improved the team and allowed it to compete for a title, then no one would have complained about his dealing draft picks.

Steptien was just a goofball with no overall plan. Hinkie, by contrast, is an educated and serious person who is operating on a scientific basis in order to realise a long-term vision. His approach deserves time to play out.

[The_Admiral]

Hinkie, by contrast, is an educated and serious person who is operating on a scientific basis in order to realise a long-term vision.

I think this is what sticks in my craw more than anything, this fetishization of education and intelligence as cornerstones of infallibility. It's the same principle that allows Daryl Morey to piss down his leg year after year: he's Smart, so everything has a reason and can't be wrong, because if we disagree with someone who's Smart, then how can we be Smart too? You'd think the educated and serious men who destroyed the global economy would make us all a little more apprehensive about bowing down before people who number good, but here we are nevertheless.

Pace the enormous differences in roster construction between the two sports, let's look at the most recent major overhaul, the Buffalo Sabres. The Sabres were in a similar place as the Sixers, where they were a first-round out or bubble team, and when it eventually it became clear that the team as built was going nowhere fast, they stripped it down to nothing for 2013-2014, then stripped it down to less than nothing for 2014-2015, with the goal being to hoard assets and draft one of two generational players in the summer of '15. They were terrible, finished last, drafted second, fired the dimwitted coach, traded some of those assets for a #1 center, and now they're out of the doldrums and firmly in the lower-middle of the league with the needle pointing up in a big way. That, to me, is doing it the right way: they went to the bottom, sure, but they knew when and how they were going to come back up. It's concrete. I don't see that with the Sixers at all. If you tank for a pick and the pick sucks, you have failed. You shouldn't be able to but-our-princess-is-in-another-castle it over and over until you get it right, and apparently Adam Silver felt the same way when he staged a bloodless coup of the team and installed a crusty old basketball lifer to babysit a bunch of number-crunchers who don't care about anyone's lives but their own.

Can we please spin off this discussion into a freestanding thread in General? Call it, I dunno, something about what a bunch of dongs the Philadelphia 76ers are.

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

Hinkie, by contrast, is an educated and serious person who is operating on a scientific basis in order to realise a long-term vision.

I think this is what sticks in my craw more than anything, this fetishization of education and intelligence as cornerstones of infallibility.

Fetishisation? Infallibility? Those are some impressive leaps that you've taken there. Education and intelligence provide neither a guarantee of success nor an immunity from criticism. Still, these qualities in someone do make for very good reasons for putting confidence in that person. I'll make that bet every time.

It's good for the Sabres that their turnaround took place so rapidly. But Hinkie never promised such a quick result to his bosses at the Sixers. And they hired him anyway, knowing that they were signing up for a multi-year project.

We're only in year three of the Hinkie programme. It is just too early to render judgement. If, after three more years, the Sixers still haven't seen any benefit, then it would be reasonable to think about pulling the plug.

But, as of now, it is important to realise that what we are seeing is part of the plan, and that this is precisely what the team signed up for when they hired him.

[SCalderwood]

Wizards are not wearing their navy alts tonight, despite tonight being a Wednesday road game (they are wearing their primary red aways).

This is kind of weird because ever since they have had the navy alt, they have worn it pretty much exclusively for every Wednesday road game. They also wore them at home once or twice, but it's basically been their designated specifically for Wednesday road games.

So I'm not sure if they are changing their uniform schedule, or just forgot to wear them tonight, or what. It might be a superstition/luck thing? They did get beaten pretty bad the last time they wore them (I think 2 Wednesdays ago at San Antonio). Either way, it's pretty significant, considering how strictly they had been following the Wednesday rule.

[Germanshepherd]

Second time this season the Raptors have worn Drake Night jerseys against Phildelphia, which is the hometown of, Meek Mill, a rapper who Drake dissed in a song. Just thought that was funny.

[CitizenTino]

When did the Sixers fix the "Wells Fargo Center" logos on their court? I noticed yesterday that they are actually legible now. Too bad, I enjoyed the Sixers' passive-aggressiveness in their weird feud with Wells Fargo over the naming rights deal.

Earlier in the season:

Yesterday:

[Shadojoker]

Bulls vs Bucks..another color vs color matchup. Not too distracting.

[TheRicSlick]

Those Bucks' jerseys get the award for worst jerseys of the year. That's saying something.

[MCM0313]

Bulls vs Bucks..another color vs color matchup. Not too distracting.

Ugh, that Bucks alt. The numbers on the front are so tiny and the logo so big. Gross.

Those Bucks' jerseys get the award for worst jerseys of the year. That's saying something.

Hear, hear!

[NickSixers]

When did the Sixers fix the "Wells Fargo Center" logos on their court? I noticed yesterday that they are actually legible now. Too bad, I enjoyed the Sixers' passive-aggressiveness in their weird feud with Wells Fargo over the naming rights deal.

Earlier in the season:

Yesterday:

Comcast "encouraged" the Sixers to change it to acknowledge the terms of the naming rights agreement.

[VikWings]

Those Bucks' jerseys get the award for worst jerseys of the year. That's saying something.

Did you forget the Clippers exists?

And what about when the Hawks go mismatched jersey/shorts?

[BBTV]

Hinkie, by contrast, is an educated and serious person who is operating on a scientific basis in order to realise a long-term vision.

I think this is what sticks in my craw more than anything, this fetishization of education and intelligence as cornerstones of infallibility.

Fetishisation? Infallibility? Those are some impressive leaps that you've taken there. Education and intelligence provide neither a guarantee of success nor an immunity from criticism. Still, these qualities in someone do make for very good reasons for putting confidence in that person. I'll make that bet every time.

It's good for the Sabres that their turnaround took place so rapidly. But Hinkie never promised such a quick result to his bosses at the Sixers. And they hired him anyway, knowing that they were signing up for a multi-year project.

We're only in year three of the Hinkie programme. It is just too early to render judgement. If, after three more years, the Sixers still haven't seen any benefit, then it would be reasonable to think about pulling the plug.

But, as of now, it is important to realise that what we are seeing is part of the plan, and that this is precisely what the team signed up for when they hired him.

Not sure how education and intelligence play in to being the GM of a sports team. Negotiating contracts and dealing with the salary cap? Sure. But evaluating talent and building a team? It's freaking sports, not NASA. There's plenty of meat headed oafs that know basketball better than any bean counter could, and there's no college that offers degrees in evaluating someone's defense.

The only thing being smart accomplishes is outsmarting yourself. the only thing more dangerous than actually being smart is not being smart but thinking you are.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Man, I wish this Sixers conversation had been posted in the right place. I love being indignant about Sam Hinkie.

The good news is his process is over and Philadelphia is on its way to becoming a functioning franchise again. The bad news is the Hinkie process may have nuked the careers of Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid, and Jahlil Okafor.

[Wilt]

Hinkie, by contrast, is an educated and serious person who is operating on a scientific basis in order to realise a long-term vision.

I think this is what sticks in my craw more than anything, this fetishization of education and intelligence as cornerstones of infallibility.

Fetishisation? Infallibility? Those are some impressive leaps that you've taken there. Education and intelligence provide neither a guarantee of success nor an immunity from criticism. Still, these qualities in someone do make for very good reasons for putting confidence in that person. I'll make that bet every time.

It's good for the Sabres that their turnaround took place so rapidly. But Hinkie never promised such a quick result to his bosses at the Sixers. And they hired him anyway, knowing that they were signing up for a multi-year project.

We're only in year three of the Hinkie programme. It is just too early to render judgement. If, after three more years, the Sixers still haven't seen any benefit, then it would be reasonable to think about pulling the plug.

But, as of now, it is important to realise that what we are seeing is part of the plan, and that this is precisely what the team signed up for when they hired him.

Not sure how education and intelligence play in to being the GM of a sports team. Negotiating contracts and dealing with the salary cap? Sure. But evaluating talent and building a team? It's freaking sports, not NASA. There's plenty of meat headed oafs that know basketball better than any bean counter could, and there's no college that offers degrees in evaluating someone's defense.

The only thing being smart accomplishes is outsmarting yourself. the only thing more dangerous than actually being smart is not being smart but thinking you are.

Dealing with salary cap is more difficult that it appear since CBA is quite a complicated document. Don't forget how the Knicks lost Jeremy Lin. They just assumed that they can match any offer but Morey constucted the contract in a way that it was impossible. My point is that you can't be a great GM without both: the "sport knowledge" and education/intelligence required to exploit CBA to your advantage.

[aIpha]

Man, I wish this Sixers conversation had been posted in the right place. I love being indignant about Sam Hinkie.

The good news is his process is over and Philadelphia is on its way to becoming a functioning franchise again. The bad news is the Hinkie process may have nuked the careers of Nerlens Noel, Joel Embiid, and Jahlil Okafor.

Are you serious? Embiid's career may very well have actually ended if he went to another franchise that wasn't willing to be so patient with his rehab. He's in the best position he could possibly be right now.