NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[STL FANATIC]

Take this with the appropriate grain of salt (the reporter is legit, but his info sounds anything but concrete), but there may be a private investor involved in the St. Louis stadium financing.

http://www.insidestl.com/insideSTLcom/RadioShows/FeatureInterviews/tabid/339/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/17068/David-Hunn-Talks-Rams-Stadium-Financing.aspx

This is speculation (not my own, but also not from the report), but some have wondered if it's Goldman-Sachs. Remember, they helped finance the SF stadium. Also, they're involved in the Carson stadium proposal. So they would have a vested interest in trying to keep the Inglewood plan from becoming a reality.

That's simply one theory. Who knows. And like I said, grains of salt.

[Gothamite]

A private investor is going to want to be repaid.

I presume out of the city's share?

[STL FANATIC]

Another interesting note.

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/03/31/st-louis-county-sidelined-in-deal-for-new-nfl-stadium/

It sounds like St. Louis County would still be part of the larger plan, but not specifically the stadium plan. The Dome and attached center supposedly needs about $70 million in renovations to remain a competitive convention center, and there has always been a belief that the Dome without a football team will make more money through conventions than one with the team. So they intend to upgrade it and keep it functioning.

The statement from the Governor's office implies that may be where the county funds are actually going.

$70 million still is less than 25%, though, so there's still funding to be made up, I think.

A private investor is going to want to be repaid.

I presume out of the city's share?

Impossible to say. Also depends who the private investor is.

[LMU]

A private investor might be the nail in the coffin. Goodell has made no secret that he wants to milk cities for as much public money as he can get. Adding private investment in STL takes away some of the advantage that it may have had.

[STL FANATIC]

A private investor might be the nail in the coffin. Goodell has made no secret that he wants to milk cities for as much public money as he can get. Adding private investment in STL takes away some of the advantage that it may have had.

That's an interesting take.

I'm going to flatly say that I think it's wrong, but it's an interesting take. I think Goodell wants as much free money as he can get. I don't think he really cares whether it's coming from private sources outside of the NFL or governments.

There may be a TOUCH of unhappiness that he can't hold as much public money as a precedent... but I don't think that's a nail in the coffin at all. I think they like free money, and in theory this would still be free money.

With that said, I'm not assuming any money is there right now. My skepticism on the financial part has wavered, but right now, I'm highly skeptical.

One other thing... in one of the links above. I forget which, but I think the insideSTL.com one, a soft deadline for St. Louis to get it's financing in order is one month. That's fast. But in a way, it's nice because the uncertainty is terrible.

I call the deadline soft, by the way, because the league doesn't appear to be making a decision in this time frame, and neither the Oakland nor the San Diego plan will be near ready by then (at least as far finances go). But that still must exist for a reason.

[Gothamite]

A private investor is going to want to be repaid.

I presume out of the city's share?

Impossible to say. Also depends who the private investor is.

It won't come out of the team's profits, that's for sure. Not if Kroenke is involved. If he and his partners are willing to finance 100% of their own own stadium, it's because they want 100% of the revenues.

If the Goldman Sachs money serves as the public contribution, that raises additional issues. I would like to know what return Goldman Sachs is seeking, and how that relates to the interest owed on public bonds as well as what the repayment schedule looks like. Is there a prepayment penalty, should the stadium deal be wildly successful beyond everyone's imagining? I know this was done that way in Santa Clara, but I thought that was because Santa Clara is a relatively small city without the tax base large enough to come up with the money themselves. This isn't usually the model of choice.

[STL FANATIC]

Goldman Sachs is pure speculation. There may not be anything to that. May have no involvement.

[Gothamite]

True, but they make a nice placeholder.

And it really doesn't matter who the private investor is - their goal will be the same, to achieve a return on their investment. That will shape the deal in roughly the same way whether it's Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank, Barclays or just Warren Buffet fishing the coins out from under his couch cushions. Once the public role has been assumed by a for-profit entity, the equation changes.

[STL FANATIC]

I agree. The skepticism as far as that goes is warranted.

With that said, I'm wondering about the possibility of a more local private investor. The Taylor family. Or Bill DeWitt. Or Rex Sinquefield (doubtful given this is Nixon's push). Or someone like that. That takes on a different dynamic than a bank or financing company.

What it still doesn't do is change the fact that rich people don't usually do things without a reasonable expectation of return. So even local private investment would come with strings attached. Just, perhaps, different strings.

[Gothamite]

Yeah, I don't think there are very many wealthy local investors who would put money into a project like this without wanting the exact same thing as a private bank.

Would such a person donate to a local non-profit? Sure. Give money for public parks? Maybe. But a giveaway to prop up a billion-dollar private for-profit business? Without asking for a nice return? Seems very doubtful.

[STL FANATIC]

Agreed. There are some very wealthy people around here who seem to think this is actually good for the region though, so you never know. Rich people are weird. But yeah, they're not going to do it without getting SOMETHING out of it.

In other news, San Diego has released some renders and a site plan. There may be more details found elsewhere. I haven't dug much. http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2015/4/1/8326535/csag-releases-renderings-of-proposed-chargers-stadium

[bosrs1]

Agreed. There are some very wealthy people around here who seem to think this is actually good for the region though, so you never know. Rich people are weird. But yeah, they're not going to do it without getting SOMETHING out of it.

In other news, San Diego has released some renders and a site plan. There may be more details found elsewhere. I haven't dug much. http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2015/4/1/8326535/csag-releases-renderings-of-proposed-chargers-stadium

If San Diego makes it happen Mission Valley will be that more interesting of a place to visit.

But I'll believe it when I see it.

[dfwabel]

Agreed. There are some very wealthy people around here who seem to think this is actually good for the region though, so you never know. Rich people are weird. But yeah, they're not going to do it without getting SOMETHING out of it.

In other news, San Diego has released some renders and a site plan. There may be more details found elsewhere. I haven't dug much. http://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2015/4/1/8326535/csag-releases-renderings-of-proposed-chargers-stadium

If San Diego makes it happen Mission Valley will be that more interesting of a place to visit.

But I'll believe it when I see it.

Hey, hey. We found a use, albeit for illustrative purposes, for Durban's Moses Mabhida Stadium following the 2010 World Cup.

[Gothamite]

I was going to say it looks like Wembley.

[BBTV]

So the post-cookie-cutter stadium trend for a while was to be more/less rectangular and have open corners - Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc.

Are we officially past that point and now the full upper+lower bowl is the "thing"? What's old is new again or something like that?

[The_Admiral]

I'm getting a vagina dentata vibe from that Durban stadium. Don't like it.

[BBTV]

You're right. It is a huge :censored:.

[The_Admiral]

And it bothers me because I pride myself on being much more of a Jungian than a Freudian but that stadium is upsetting me on deep levels.

[bosrs1]

So the post-cookie-cutter stadium trend for a while was to be more/less rectangular and have open corners - Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc.

Are we officially past that point and now the full upper+lower bowl is the "thing"? What's old is new again or something like that?

Not really. Levis Stadium was the most recent stadium and it took the "open corner" thing to the extreme essentially only having an upper deck around half the stadium with that stupid luxury suite tower. And that's the same design modified we're seeing on the Carson stadium plan. There doesn't seem to be a "standard" model right now.

[dfwabel]

So the post-cookie-cutter stadium trend for a while was to be more/less rectangular and have open corners - Cleveland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Baltimore, etc.

Are we officially past that point and now the full upper+lower bowl is the "thing"? What's old is new again or something like that?

Not really. Levis Stadium was the most recent stadium and it took the "open corner" thing to the extreme essentially only having an upper deck around half the stadium with that stupid luxury suite tower. And that's the same design modified we're seeing on the Carson stadium plan. There doesn't seem to be a "standard" model right now.

In North America, there is a new "standard", it is keep the upper bowl as small as possible since it is more difficult to sell season tickets to those higher positioned upper bowl seats.

Look at Sunlife Stadium's renovation in taking the NFL's largest upper bowl and cutting it down by about 10K.

What it should look like this fall.

Those new World Cup stadiums in CapeTown and Durban in 2010 and the Sao Paolo venue had temporary stands in the upper bowl and/or endzones.

That's why "Mt. Davis" was tarped NY the Raiders, why JAX tarps EverBank Field but for the Florida/Georgia game, and why the Saints will look for a replacement when Tom Benson dies.