NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[Gothamite]

I kid, I kid.

But seriously, Fan. You know I'm on your side on principle. But yeah, this is what I was talking about. You claim that this is some extreme heretofore-unknown-to-man circumstance, excuse the frankly pathetic response of the only people in St. Louis that could possibly have made a difference and then hand wave the entire thing away with bizarre conspiracy theories that it was somehow all decided in advance.

The bottom line is you don't root for owners. You root for the team, often despite the owners. That's just a sad fact of life. I don't know a single Met fan, even this year, who thinks the Wilpons are better owners than the partner they bought out fifteen years ago. Most of the Yankee fans I know hated Steinbrenner's guts, even when they were glad for the moves he made.

St. Louis had two decades to build a successful fan culture. Winning helps, but ask the north Side of Chicago how much. Ask the fans in Flushing. Hell, you can drag out that five-year period if you want but I can tell you I saw a whole lot of ty Packer football growing up, and we never thought then we'd be where we are today. And if the football fans in eastern Missouri can't be bothered to support what they've got in the hopes it can be better, then it's awfully hard for those of us outside to be bothered at the prospect of the Rams moving back.

I'm kind of flummoxed by how I've come around on this thread. I started feeling that if anyone the Jaguars should be the ones to move, and we should save the team of my Midwest brethren. But over the last couple years I've been very turned off by the reaction from St. Louis. Not you specifically, my friend, but the fans in general. And now here we are.

[The_Admiral]

HOLY CRAP A BIG CHILL CLIP I CAN'T FIND THAT MOVIE ON NETFLIX ANYWHERE

[HedleyLamarr]

But to your second point, none of these other markets have been put in the same situation that St. Louis has. It's honestly a unique situation. It really is. There's not a comparable set of circumstances in the league.

How different has St. Louis's situation been than Jacksonville's, really? That's a franchise that's been through the wringer more than the Rams. Like the Rams, they had early success in their market, had sustained winning for at least a 5 year stretch, then have fallen on hard times. Yet Jacksonville's getting more folks out, and they don't have an NFL title to celebrate or two Super Bowl appearances to look back on.

Like it or not, asses in the seats is what the NFL wants. In the NFL's eyes, there's eight days out of the 365-day calendar to attend a game....most of which fall on Sunday when most folks don't go to work. And to the NFL, they're not so much "games" as they are "events": no other sport allows many opportunities to book-end the game with tailgating festivities. It's the most popular league in the most popular sport. The NFL isn't going to have much sympathy for any team.

Had the Rams had decent attendance, Kroenke (who was thought of as being a St. Louis guy) wouldn't even have thought of looking for greener pastures. At best, the Rams fan support at games has been fairweather. They haven't given Kroenke much of a reason to keep his team in St. Louis.

[STL FANATIC]

I keep starting to respond to both of you, but I find myself saying the same things. So I think this is an polite agree to disagree, moment.

All I can say is that I hope St. Louis has the chance to prove you wrong. I don't expect it will, and then I'll just have to go to my grave knowing I was right.

Just like I know Sam Bradford would have been a Hall of Famer if he ever just had good weapons around him and played in an open and exciting offense.

(What's that you say? Oh. oh. Oh my. Carry on.)

[colortv]

I am pleased that recent reports are saying only one team will be placed in L.A. I hope that is true. It doesn't seem like a good idea to go from 0 to 2 after 20 years.

Nobody said that. They said it's an OPTION.

Curious what everyone thinks about this:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/nfl-wants-players-to-pay-for-los-angeles-stadium?cmpid=yhoo

[infrared41]

I will tell you until I'm blue in the face that St. Louis can be a good football market with reasonable efforts from the home team, but I wouldn't tell you it is or can be elite. I'd agree that it is not a Cleveland or Buffalo (although keep the team here for another 40 years and then let's see). I also don't think it should have to be Cleveland or Buffalo.

Maybe if the Cardinals move to Vancouver or something.

Like it or not, to keep the NFL in town, St. Louis has to be Cleveland or Buffalo. It's not. That's why your city is on the verge of losing it's second NFL team in less than 30 years.

[STL FANATIC]

I disagree with you, but no problem.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I am pleased that recent reports are saying only one team will be placed in L.A. I hope that is true. It doesn't seem like a good idea to go from 0 to 2 after 20 years.

Nobody said that. They said it's an OPTION.

Curious what everyone thinks about this:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-25/nfl-wants-players-to-pay-for-los-angeles-stadium?cmpid=yhoo

For the record, I don't click random links without some summary of what I'm clicking.

[Mac the Knife]

I will tell you until I'm blue in the face that St. Louis can be a good football market with reasonable efforts from the home team, but I wouldn't tell you it is or can be elite. I'd agree that it is not a Cleveland or Buffalo (although keep the team here for another 40 years and then let's see). I also don't think it should have to be Cleveland or Buffalo.

Maybe if the Cardinals move to Vancouver or something.

Like it or not, to keep the NFL in town, St. Louis has to be Cleveland or Buffalo. It's not. That's why your city is on the verge of losing it's second NFL team in less than 30 years.

Buffalo's not even a "Buffalo." Let's face it, if Ralph Wilson hadn't tied the sale of the Bills franchise up the way he did as part of his estate closure? The Bills would likely be playing in the LA market this year.

[Cosmic]

I will tell you until I'm blue in the face that St. Louis can be a good football market with reasonable efforts from the home team, but I wouldn't tell you it is or can be elite. I'd agree that it is not a Cleveland or Buffalo (although keep the team here for another 40 years and then let's see). I also don't think it should have to be Cleveland or Buffalo.

Maybe if the Cardinals move to Vancouver or something.

Like it or not, to keep the NFL in town, St. Louis has to be Cleveland or Buffalo. It's not. That's why your city is on the verge of losing it's second NFL team in less than 30 years.

Buffalo's not even a "Buffalo." Let's face it, if Ralph Wilson hadn't tied the sale of the Bills franchise up the way he did as part of his estate closure? The Bills would likely be playing in the LA market this year.

I dunno... $1.4B is a pretty good sale price, restrictions or no.

[colortv]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25317344/nfl-team-in-la-neither-project-has-enough-league-votes-right-now

It looks like this will come down to some kind of negotiated settlement between the two competing projects.

[IceCap]

But to your second point, none of these other markets have been put in the same situation that St. Louis has. It's honestly a unique situation. It really is. There's not a comparable set of circumstances in the league.

If you just plain don't believe St. Louis is a good market, I don't feel the need to go back and forth over that. But I wish you'd acknowledge the unique set of circumstances St. Louis has been through with the NFL.

I just don't see it. The team's tenure in St. Louis included two NFC Championships and Super Bowl Championship. All within five years of moving. That's a dream scenario for a team entering a new market. The idea that St. Louis has had to endure this uniquely terrible situation doesn't fly with me.

[STL FANATIC]

Stadium was pretty full today (I was there), but probably somewhere between 40-60% Steelers fans. That's hard to judge, but there were a ton of them.

Rams played like a Jeff Fisher team—good enough to win, but not actually good enough to win—and then the NFL robbed them of their final chance. Another great way to get fans excited!

It's hard for me to honestly recognize this (even when I clearly do recognize this), but the best day of my life will be when this garbage league leaves town for good.

[HedleyLamarr]

Is this Shop-Vac an indictment of just how broke the city of St. Louis is?

[CubsFanBudMan]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25317344/nfl-team-in-la-neither-project-has-enough-league-votes-right-now

It looks like this will come down to some kind of negotiated settlement between the two competing projects.

"It's believed Kroenke has 10 votes right now."

10? When 24 are needed? And he's in the lead? Yeah, sounds like a stalemate for the owners. No wonder the NFL wants to "settle it" rather than take it to a vote.

[The_Admiral]

I do like that Jerrah is one of the owners behind Kroenke. He's all like "oh, you wanna do whatever you want and make a lot of money? Go get 'em, son!" I bet it's all the crusty old lame-o owners who support Spanos.

[STL FANATIC]

It's interesting that that article notes Bob Kraft (in addition to Jerry, who we already knew about) as supporting Kroenke's plan. Kraft is on record not all that long ago as saying that if St. Louis steps up with a solidified stadium plan, then he believes the league has an obligation to keep/put a team in St. Louis.

The most likely explanation for that is that he's just become impressed enough with Kroenke's plan that it outweighs those previously expressed feelings. But still interesting.

And to CFBM's point, "as many as 10 votes" for Kroenke doesn't sound like any overwhelming majority. That leaves 19-22 guys (I'm not clear if the owners involved get to vote for themselves or not) who either support the Carson project or haven't come to any decision.

[The_Admiral]

Oh, he's probably just being intentionally difficult to the league because of how rough Kraft Productions has had it the last few weeks.

[colortv]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25317344/nfl-team-in-la-neither-project-has-enough-league-votes-right-now

It looks like this will come down to some kind of negotiated settlement between the two competing projects.

Just to piggyback on that:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/27/some-owners-actively-opposingl-an-l-a-move-by-rams/

[The_Admiral]

I bet it's all the crusty old lame-o owners who support Spanos.

Per multiple sources, a group of influential owners strongly opposes the relocation of the Rams to Los Angeles. That group includes Panthers owner Jerry Richardson