NFL Merry-Go-Round: Relocation Roundelay

[neo_prankster]

How come Chula Vista never worked? There was plenty of land around the Eastlake area without bulldozing old buildings, wasn't there?

[IceCap]

5 hours ago, neo_prankster said:

Would it be poetic justice if the Rams win a Super Bowl before the Chargers do?

I wouldn't call it justice, but it would pretty much relegate the Chargers to "afterthought" status so long as they're in LA. The ONLY chance the team has of supplanting the Rams is if they manage to win big before the Rams do. Even that's not a sure thing though.

 

As I said earlier in an other thread. You'll never be a poor man by betting on Dean Spanos to make the worst possible decision in any given circumstance.

[bosrs1]

32 minutes ago, neo_prankster said:

How come Chula Vista never worked? There was plenty of land around the Eastlake area without bulldozing old buildings, wasn't there?

 

As I recall the site the team wanted in Chula Vista was the site of a bayfront power plant that the city couldn't get permission from the state to shut down (because they wouldn't approve a replacement power plant). That and the lead guy on the Chula Vista city council was called back to service in the Navy (he was a reservist). So the Chargers got pissy and walked away. Sound familiar?

 

Worst part being if they'd waited a couple of years this was what happened to said power plant in 2013...

 

 

[neo_prankster]

7 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

I wouldn't call it justice, but it would pretty much relegate the Chargers to "afterthought" status so long as they're in LA. The ONLY chance the team has of supplanting the Rams is if they manage to win big before the Rams do. Even that's not a sure thing though.

 

As I said earlier in an other thread. You'll never be a poor man by betting on Dean Spanos to make the worst possible decision in any given circumstance.

In that case, I'll need the 2000-2050 Sports Almanac to refer to when betting on the Bolts' future screwups.

 

2 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

 

As I recall the site the team wanted in Chula Vista was the site of a bayfront power plant that the city couldn't get permission from the state to shut down (because they wouldn't approve a replacement power plant). That and the lead guy on the Chula Vista city council was called back to service in the Navy (he was a reservist). So the Chargers got pissy and walked away. Sound familiar?

 

Worst part being if they'd waited a couple of years this was what happened to said power plant in 2013...

 

 

 

Oh yeah, now I remember.

 

And why couldn't there be a Miami style rebuild of the Q?

[IceCap]

3 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

 

I think it all goes back to Kroenke. They were saddled with an owner who not only had the will to railroad the league, but being as wealthy as he is, he had the means. And by doing so he undercut the league's...

I think this is revisionist history. The LA committee ruled in favour of the Carson site, but their prerogative ended at a recommendation, not a ruling. All accounts I've seen indicate that when all was said and done the Raiders/Chargers Carson plan was adequate, while Kroenke's plan was essentially a fully functioning west coast NFL HQ/NFL amusement park. The owners saw Kroenke as the guy who had the means and drive to fully tap LA's potential. They saw Spanos and Davis as two guys who wouldn't go the extra mile to do just that. The secret ballot freed everyone who was loyal to Spanos personally but who preferred Kroenke's vision to back the latter.

 

You also have to remember that (informal) polling leading up to that vote showed that the Rams were the runaway favourite option among LA locals. The Raiders were a respectable second, and the Chargers a distant third. I don't think LA fans booing the Chargers over the last few days has anything to do with the fact that the LA Rams had an underwhelming first season. It has everything to do with the fact that, even a year ago, the city was making it clear they did not want the Chargers organisation in town.

Forcing them on LA in a combo deal with the Raiders would have seen the same result, as far as the city "welcoming" the Chargers went. 

 

Quote

...logical alternative which was the Raiders/Chargers plan

There's nothing logical in the Chargers and Raiders sharing a stadium, nor is there anything logical in forcing an original AFL team to play in the NFC. The NFL made the right move with Kroenke's plan that returned the Rams home. They bungled the next part by giving the Chargers first dibs. The Raiders should have had the first option to relocate to LA.

[bosrs1]

1 minute ago, neo_prankster said:

In that case, I'll need the 2000-2050 Sports Almanac to refer to when betting on the Bolts' future screwups.

 

 

Oh yeah, now I remember.

 

And why couldn't there be a Miami style rebuild of the Q?

 

Because unlike Miami the Q was not built as a football stadium first and foremost. It was a classic 60's multipurpose venue that wasn't a great baseball or football venue. It was serviceable but never ideal with things like a too shallow lower deck. It would have required significant work under the hood that a 20 year newer stadium like Joe Robbie didn't need. Wiring issues, plumbing issues, major support issues (I'd anecdotally heard from a guy who helped maintain it that it would have collapsed in a major quake due to underlying decay). The entire south (scoreboard end) was slowly sinking (possibly due to extra weight on the underlying ground it was never meant to handle due to the Chargers demanded 1997 expansion of that end). Plus it needed major additions such as a first deck rebuild, new additions to the suites, new scoreboards, new video boards, etc... I mean don't get me wrong it wasn't impossible, but estimates had rebuilding it at something like 1/2 to 2/3 the cost of a new stadium. And you'd still have the bones of a 50 year old compromised multipurpose venue underneath.

[bosrs1]

Another half day, another LA Chargers funny. One of the few "Chargers fans" at today's event.

 

 

Note the massive crowds of "Chargers fans" around him too...

 

 

[Cosmic]

It's a first-class organization... they made sure to give everyone room to stretch their legs at the rally!

[BlackBolt3]

Actor fans? ACTOR FANS!?!? I'M INCONSOLABLE

[bosrs1]

4 minutes ago, BlackBolt3 said:

Actor fans? ACTOR FANS!?!? I'M INCONSOLABLE

 

Admittedly it hasn't been independently confirmed. But there have been a couple of similar claims floating around. And the "new jersey" guy definitely lends credence to it. I mean some were clearly real, or else the screaming SD fan wouldn't have been in there. But I can see an owner as worried about no one caring about his team like Spanos hiring a few actors to fill in the "crowd" in case no real fans had shown.

[Gothamite]

7 hours ago, Cosmic said:

I'm also hoping for a gong show, honestly. This may the biggest and most blatant example of the league telling the fans what they want. It deserves to fail.

 

The league is not telling the fans what they want.   They tried to get Spanos to stay in San Diego. 

[IceCap]

Just now, Gothamite said:

 

The league is not telling the fans what they want.   They tried to get Spanos to stay in San Diego. 

Exactly. The league didn't stop this because they couldn't. They already ok'd giving Spanos the option. They tried talking him out of it, but once he decided to move there was no ground to stonewall him.

 

Now as far as that option goes...I know the league doesn't want the Raiders in LA for a variety of reasons, but they should have been given first crack at moving. Most importantly? The city of LA would welcome them back. As we've seen from this mess...you can't tell fans who to boo and who to cheer for. The Raiders would have been cheered.

Secondly, the O.co Coliseum is in worse shape than Qualcomm Stadium. Getting the Raiders a new home should have been the priority. The Chargers could afford another year or two in their old stadium while something was worked out.

 

Obviously the Chargers had to leave that meeting a year back with something, because Dean Spanos had too much good will among his fellow owners to just be left with nothing. Still, that something should have been a commitment to help fund a San Diego stadium with a move to LA only being open as an absolute last option.

[Gothamite]

9 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Obviously the Chargers had to leave that meeting a year back with something, because Dean Spanos had too much good will among his fellow owners to just be left with nothing. Still, that something should have been a commitment to help fund a San Diego stadium with a move to LA only being open as an absolute last option.

 

That's exactly what the league did - they ponied up extra money towards a San Diego stadium.   But the problem is that Spanos's ego wouldn't let him accept that gift.  Because moron. 

[Lights Out]

How bad does it have to get before the league decides to waive all the restrictions they put on selling a team after relocation and pushes the Spanos family out? The LA Chargers were never going to succeed, but with that family of idiots at the helm, this is looking like a historic failure that will be talked about forever.

[Lights Out]

Preach, Nick Hardwick! Preach!

 

Quote

On behalf of Measure C, an initiative that sought $1.15 billion in tax money toward a downtown stadium, Hardwick lobbied in public appearances at the targeted East Village site and elsewhere.

Afforded hindsight, he said Wednesday that he doubted the Spanoses' enthusiasm for the project matched his own.

"I was essentially the mascot to try to get a stadium done here," he said. "Every time they wanted somebody to speak, because they weren't willing to do it themselves, I was the guy they paraded out there to speak and try to rally their support.

"At the end of the day," he said, "I felt like a used item. For one, I would go out there and talk on their behalf and pump up the ballot measure and how it was such a good thing for San Diego; but, on the back end of that, there was never any information given to me about where we are along the way.

"Looking back on it," he said, "I was almost their guise, almost their cover on the way out of town. I'm embarrassed almost that I was part of it. I'm not embarrassed that I tried to keep the Chargers in San Diego, but to participate in that ballyhoo, it rubs me wrong now.

"I felt like I was preaching more on behalf of Measure C than they were, the family that was going to get the most benefit from this," he said. "I was not getting a dollar from this."

Hardwick said a similar dearth of clear, forthright communication from the Spanoses and the team's stadium consultants was also evident in the team's announced departure from San Diego last week.

"There was no communication (to Chargers fans) on the exit process," he said of a decision that was made known by an ESPN report quoting unidentified sources. "It was like the last 56 years never happened. And, for me, that's really unfortunate, that they forgot who built their business, who has sustained their family, who has turned their ($48.3 million, original investment in the team) into well over ($2 billion), who has allowed family member after family member to come in and have jobs that they may not have had in any other (NFL) organization. To me, the entitlement is staggering."

As Hardwick saw it, Chargers fans deserved a better farewell than an L.A.-centric statement from Dean Spanos posted on the team web site the morning after the ESPN report came out.

The Spanos family accrued wealth, he said, "on the back of blue-collar San Diegans, and they weren't even shown the common decency of a press conference. (The Spanoses) wouldn’t even stand up and answer tough questions of why you're going to leave, like people wouldn't understand the economics."

 

 

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/chargers/sd-sp-chargers-nick-hardwick-spanos-20170118-story.html

[DG_ThenNowForever]

49 minutes ago, Lights Out said:

How bad does it have to get before the league decides to waive all the restrictions they put on selling a team after relocation and pushes the Spanos family out? The LA Chargers were never going to succeed, but with that family of idiots at the helm, this is looking like a historic failure that will be talked about forever.

 

Are they handing out road jerseys? That's weird.

[BBTV]

maybe they figure the home jerseys would be the bigger seller so they still hope to make money off of them by withholding them from the freebie promo?

 

Nobody will actually buy them of course, but less than nobody will buy the road, so that's why it's free?

[LMU]

I'm failing to see why it's a bad thing to start trying to break into a new market with competition by giving away jerseys.

[OnWis97]

11 minutes ago, LMU said:

I'm failing to see why it's a bad thing to start trying to break into a new market with competition by giving away jerseys.

The strategy, in and of itself, makes some sense.

 

But most teams are able to sell jerseys.

[Lights Out]

56 minutes ago, LMU said:

I'm failing to see why it's a bad thing to start trying to break into a new market with competition by giving away jerseys.

For years, Dean insisted that over 25% of the Chargers' fanbase was from the LA area. He never provided any actual evidence to back it up, but that was a constant refrain in his stadium demands. If there was ever a shred of truth to that claim, why would the Chargers need to give away jerseys to get people to show up? Wouldn't all those LA-based fans he was telling us about have packed the Forum while wearing the jerseys they already owned? Instead, only 200 people showed up to a rally in an 18,000-seat arena. And, of course, we already knew from LA's reaction to getting the Chargers that Dean's statistics were full of crap to begin with.

 

It's obvious that they weren't giving away those jerseys to fans. They were giving those jerseys to the seat fillers they hired to make it look like they have any fans in LA.