NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator

[rvrdgsfn]

Once Quebec does something... Seattle shows up again.

http://www.king5.com/sports/Lawmaker-drafts-plan-to-bring-NBA-NHL-to-new-Seattle-arena-130898198.html

Lawmaker drafts plan to bring NBA, NHL to new Seattle arena

by NATASHA RYAN / KING 5 News

Posted on September 30, 2011 at 10:40 PM

SEATTLE -- An idea to bring professional basketball and hockey back to Seattle is one step closer to reaching the state legislature.

Representative Mike Hope (R, Lake Stevens) has drafted legislation that will fund a new arena. He believes it will not only bring an NBA team to Seattle, but a professional hockey team as well.

For Sonics fans, the 2007-2008 season was a long time ago -- that was their final season in Key Arena before moving to Oklahoma City.

Brian Robinson, co-founder of the organization Save our Sonics, is on a task force with Hope aiming to bring the NBA back to Seattle, but in a new venue.

"It's affected a lot of people who used to watch these games with their kids," said Robinson. "The fact that we could see politicians actually get something done would bring a lot of excitement to a lot of people."

The proposed legislation would require local and visiting professional athletes in the NBA, NFL and MLB to pay a fee for every game they play in Seattle. He says a lot of other cities already have similar laws built into their tax revenue. Hope says it would levy $140 million towards a new sports arena. He's also proposing specialty license plates for Sonics fans, generating another $10 million for bonds.

According to Hope, now is the time for the arena because construction costs are lower than they were in 2006, the last time the idea of building a new arena was floated.

Hope is optimistic the bill will pass because he believes it will gain bi-partisan support. He will be begin lobbying fellow lawmakers soon and officially introduce the bill in January during the regular session.

[The_Admiral]

How are construction costs lower than they were five years ago when China is buying up all the steel and concrete?

Not sure how I feel about the tax on football/baseball players (and I'd love to know what their commissioners and union heads think). I'd like to see the NHL in SeaTac, always have, but Quebec City already has their wheels in motion. It's happening. The only question is whether they get the Coyotes or Bettman sacrifices another team.

[rvrdgsfn]

How are construction costs lower than they were five years ago when China is buying up all the steel and concrete?

Not sure how I feel about the tax on football/baseball players (and I'd love to know what their commissioners and union heads think). I'd like to see the NHL in SeaTac, always have, but Quebec City already has their wheels in motion. It's happening. The only question is whether they get the Coyotes or Bettman sacrifices another team.

Yeah I was thinking the same thing, QC has something in motion plus the fans are hungry for hockey, while Seattle seems like a pipe dream that's more focused on getting the Sonics back. It's all a matter of time before the Nordiques are back, but will it be the Yotes is the question.

[TheOldRoman]

How are construction costs lower than they were five years ago when China is buying up all the steel and concrete?

Not sure how I feel about the tax on football/baseball players (and I'd love to know what their commissioners and union heads think). I'd like to see the NHL in SeaTac, always have, but Quebec City already has their wheels in motion. It's happening. The only question is whether they get the Coyotes or Bettman sacrifices another team.

But that's the beauty of the NHL! There are so many teams teetering on bankruptcy that Seattle need not worry if they actually build an arena. Miss out on the Coyotes and Blue Jackets? Try the Stars or Panthers! Couldn't get the Predators? Take the Islanders!

[DG_ThenNowForever]

How are construction costs lower than they were five years ago when China is buying up all the steel and concrete?

Not sure how I feel about the tax on football/baseball players (and I'd love to know what their commissioners and union heads think). I'd like to see the NHL in SeaTac, always have, but Quebec City already has their wheels in motion. It's happening. The only question is whether they get the Coyotes or Bettman sacrifices another team.

Contractor bids are routinely coming in very low throughout the region on major projects. So long as the economy is depressed, it'll continue to be this way. It's why we should be far more interested in major infrastructure spending than whatever it is Congress is doing. At least people get it on the local level.

[pollux]

Could the Seattle engineers send their plans and budgets over to Quebec City? $150 million is a lot cheaper than the expected $400+ million over in QC.

[rams80]

Could the Seattle engineers send their plans and budgets over to Quebec City? $150 million is a lot cheaper than the expected $400+ million over in QC.

I suspect Seattle has some bare bonesing going on in the design.

[NJTank]

Seattle would be a good landing spot for the Sacratomato Kings

[Lee.]

Could the Seattle engineers send their plans and budgets over to Quebec City? $150 million is a lot cheaper than the expected $400+ million over in QC.

I suspect Seattle has some bare bonesing going on in the design.

After overruns, it'll probably be more in the 200-225M range.

Canada hasn't really been hit nearly as hard during the deprecession as the US, nor do they need to build cathedrals to hockey like Quebec does. Anything built in Seattle will also be aided (?) by non-union labor, and underbidding by contractors to just get work. QC is spending that kind of money because they're out of joint with Winnipeg getting a team back first.

Also, the Quebecois are arrogant :censored:ers

[The_Admiral]

Isn't Quebec owned lock/stock/barrel by organized crime? That would explain how they were able to ramrod all these construction deals through the legislature the way they did.

[pollux]

Isn't Quebec owned lock/stock/barrel by organized crime? That would explain how they were able to ramrod all these construction deals through the legislature the way they did.

Politicians desperately seek approval from voters. The law that was adopted was even put forward by a member of the Official Opposition. The Liberal party is laughing since all the heat of the bill went to the Opposition.

Still, there is corruption at almost every level, so I'm not surprised we're overpaying everything here, especially when it comes to roads, bridges, and public venues.

[The_Admiral]

http://www.dispatch....-buy-arena.html

After the meeting, Ferris talked about what he'd said: "You take two years to put together a backroom deal and then two weeks to talk about it," he said. "I'm sorry, but you're spineless. And you're a crook because you're taking my tax dollars."

I don't think he's wrong.

But David Ebersole, an Ohio State University law student, said the deal is too complex to be transparent and that it has no hope of showing a return on investment. A woman from the East Side said residents should have a vote on the deal. Dan Downing, a resident of the Hilltop, was the third person to speak against the deal, saying it assumes there will be enough money from the casino to make it work.

I don't think he's wrong either.

This is basically Glendale Redux. "Our entire raison d'etre is contained within this hockey rink and if it closes it will wreak economic havoc so we're going to ramrod this bailout through."

[Gothamite]

And these words of, um, wisdom from the Commish:

Where are you guys with Phoenix? As long as Glendale continues to rent this team for $25 million a year are you okay with that?

?First of all I think we need to take a step back. Winnipeg is great and we are thrilled to be there, but this was never about saying which do we like better? Atlanta or Winnipeg? As with any time that we have had to relocate. We don?t look at the alternatives until the team is dead in the water where it is. The measuring rod for that is does somebody not want to own the team they are owning anymore? That is why Winnipeg moved in the first place. That is why Quebec City moved. After it was clear that Atlanta was done that?s when we said it was okay to go to Winnipeg and this will work and this will be great. We?re not going to go on with Phoenix indefinitely. The fact of the matter is we do have a couple of groups that have understandings in a macro sense with the city of Glendale? We?re going through a process of betting this and seeing if we can work it through. I still remain optimistic that the club will remain where it is, but going to your question the essential element is when you have a city that makes an investment in the building and then they are prepared to continue investing in the building to insure that they are going to be there. That is not something you take lightly. When you don?t have an alternative you move. Now obviously we don?t want to keep operating this club from the league standpoint then at some point there will be fatigue in this situation if we don?t get it sold probably this season.?

Are you getting to the point where you can?t tolerate this from the city of Phoenix and the Coyotes ownership this much longer? Is it going to get done soon?

?It?s not a question of saying we can?t tolerate it. That?s not the point because we have been trying to do the right thing here, but the uncertainty is an issue particularly for the players and management. It?s not a question of what I can tolerate. It?s us ultimately for the long term at some point having to be realistic about the situation. By the way Shane Doan and the other players have been absolutely terrific about how they have handled this situation to this point. I know they are thrilled that the club is there this season. Those are conversations I have had with Shane Doan on a regular basis and Don Maloney feels the same way. Nobody is looking to move. What we are looking to do is get rid of the uncertainty and that?s what we are working on.

[pmoehrin]

I like the quote "this was never about saying which do we like better? Atlanta or Winnipeg?"

Name one team that didn't relocate because they thought they were going to a better city either in terms of a larger population, better fanbase, or a better stadium/arena?

Relocation is entirely about bidding cities against each other. If it wasn't then the Brooklyn Dodgers wouldn't have moved to LA. LA would have just gotten an expansion team, and the Dodgers would still be in Brooklyn, but that's not the same thing.

The only way this wasn't about bidding Winnipeg against Atlanta is if the NHL lost all faith in Atlanta as a market the precise second they thought Winnipeg was a viable one and there is no chance it went down that way.

[The_Admiral]

Shane Doan and the other players have been absolutely terrific about how they have handled this situation to this point.

Shane Doan has been a blithering bitch. He threatened that he wouldn't report to Winnipeg if the team relocated because he has a no-move clause, even though no-move clauses don't cover relocation. He also told anyone who'd listen that Winnipeg was a terrible place to work/play/live, resulting in the whole team bitching its collective ass off while the Thrashers players expressed excitement about going to Winnipeg or Quebec City. Shane Doan can sit and spin, that overrated third-liner.

Name one team that didn't relocate because they thought they were going to a better city either in terms of a larger population, better fanbase, or a better stadium/arena?

Hartford Whalers? I don't know what in God's name possibly could've been more appealing about Greensboro.

[pmoehrin]

Name one team that didn't relocate because they thought they were going to a better city either in terms of a larger population, better fanbase, or a better stadium/arena?

Hartford Whalers? I don't know what in God's name possibly could've been more appealing about Greensboro.

They couldn't get an arena deal worked out in Hartford and the Raleigh arena deal was set before they left.

I don't think they would have left if Hartford had an arena deal because they were the better market, but they didn't, Carolina did, so they left.

[The_Admiral]

I don't think it was that set before they left because Karmanos was seriously floating the idea of playing out of an abandoned airplane hangar in Columbus until an arena was built. I don't think NC State--and it was NC State that poached the team, because they needed another anchor tenant to get free money--got it together till very late in the Whale's last season, or early in the offseason.

This league, I swear. Why should any of that have to be written? Abandoned hangars, Columbus, second fiddle to college basketball. Man.

[pmoehrin]

I don't think it was that set before they left because Karmanos was seriously floating the idea of playing out of an abandoned airplane hangar in Columbus until an arena was built. I don't think NC State--and it was NC State that poached the team, because they needed another anchor tenant to get free money--got it together till very late in the Whale's last season, or early in the offseason.

This league, I swear. Why should any of that have to be written? Abandoned hangars, Columbus, second fiddle to college basketball. Man.

Point I was trying to get at is that they were moving into a state of the art arena when they moved to Carolina and they knew it. If the RBC Arena doesen't get built the Whalers either stay in Hartford or move to another city.

How serious was he about playing in an abandoned hanger I have no idea. If he knew anything about the kind of money luxury suites bring in though my guess is not at all. Then again good luck trying to figure out anything that goes through these owners minds. The ones I would describe more as single-minded then smart. They get an idea in their head and that's it. They just happen to have the money and the work ethic to make it work at least at some level. Doesen't mean the idea was a good one though.

[The_Admiral]

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2011/10/12/2475303/nhl-realignment-mlb-nfl-model

Boy, if this is accurate.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

Two and a half teams are turning a profit. How does this league still exist?