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NHL Anti-Thread: Bad Business Decision Aggregator


The_Admiral

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13 hours ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

That's not how it went down. I'm not claiming Houston is some untapped Hockey hotbed, but they had a solid AHL market going. Their final 8 seasons were all top 10, performance-wise, and their attendance was in an upward trajectory, until the announcement of the team leaving (their second to last season, they had the 5th best attendance, in the AHL). During their final 5 seasons they outperformed markets like Milwaukee, Providence, Rochester, Grand Rapids and Hamilton, at least twice.

 

That is even more impressive when you consider that they had more weeknight games than most teams. Les Alexander was known for blocking the Aeros out of the best non-Rockets dates, and asked for a ridiculous increase in their lease fees.

 

This article outlines some of the history, regarding Houston hockey.

 

http://www.houstonpress.com/news/the-houston-aeros-are-no-more-rip-6714750

 

You didn't address the "they made more money from concerts" issue.

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On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

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On 7/22/2017 at 0:03 AM, rams80 said:

 

You didn't address the "they made more money from concerts" issue.

The original statement was an oversimplification, and stated that they were booted to make room for concerts. Nothing was said about money.

 

No AHL team makes more than a concert would. Even Hershey could make more money, if they booked concerts on those 38 dates. The same is also true of many NHL and NBA teams.

 

The bottom line is that they weren't "booted for concerts." The team was becoming more successful, and their landlords tried to triple their lease. If they had agreed to shell out the extra cash, they would have stayed. It wasn't fiscally wise to stay.

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And you don't suppose for one second that tripling the lease wasn't a ploy to either drive them out in favor of the concerts/events (because you don't need two winter sports to soak up valuable weekend arena dates) or make it so less money was being left on the table with AHL hockey?

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On 8/1/2010 at 4:01 PM, winters in buffalo said:
You manage to balance agitation with just enough salient points to keep things interesting. Kind of a low-rent DG_Now.
On 1/2/2011 at 9:07 PM, Sodboy13 said:
Today, we are all otaku.

"The city of Peoria was once the site of the largest distillery in the world and later became the site for mass production of penicillin. So it is safe to assume that present-day Peorians are descended from syphilitic boozehounds."-Stephen Colbert

POTD: February 15, 2010, June 20, 2010

The Glorious Bloom State Penguins (NCFAF) 2014: 2-9, 2015: 7-5 (L Pineapple Bowl), 2016: 1-0 (NCFAB) 2014-15: 10-8, 2015-16: 14-5 (SMC Champs, L 1st Round February Frenzy)

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On 7/23/2017 at 1:33 PM, BeerGuyJordan said:

The original statement was an oversimplification, and stated that they were booted to make room for concerts. Nothing was said about money.

 

No AHL team makes more than a concert would. Even Hershey could make more money, if they booked concerts on those 38 dates. The same is also true of many NHL and NBA teams.

 

The bottom line is that they weren't "booted for concerts." The team was becoming more successful, and their landlords tried to triple their lease. If they had agreed to shell out the extra cash, they would have stayed. It wasn't fiscally wise to stay.

They could book concerts/shows/etc. on just 1/5th to 1/4th of those 38 dates and still come out making more coin than if there were 38 hockey games.

 

That ice is on the floor for at least six months, probably closer to seven.  Which means those freezer coils underneath are in use for over half the year.  Not cheap.  Then, there's the air conditioning it takes to meet AHL regulations.  Not cheap.  And, perhaps the biggest cost of all, is everything that goes into ice maintenance.....Zambonis, Zamboni upkeep, ice-making materials, properly cleaning the ice numerous times a day, and the full-time and game-day staff in charge of handling the ice.  On game days, the ice gets cleaned (and double-cleaned) about 12-15 times.  On non game days, 3-4 times.

 

What probably went down is that the owners told the Aeros', "You can keep playing here, but you're picking up the tab on the ice financials." which would explain the uptick in charge.  Building owners rarely change their rent price for whomever wants to use their building, I think for legal reasons.

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After looking over all the negative variables and realizing this is the NHL were talking about I've come to the conclusion that Houston is a damn lock to get a team if Les sells the Rockets. OITGDNHL. :P

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/18/2017 at 1:25 PM, the admiral said:

Houston, a city full of people who used to live somewhere else with a large black/Hispanic native population and exurban sprawl out the ass, has the profile of an absolutely terrible NHL market. I'm sure the league couldn't be more excited about being there.

maybe not now :(

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On 7/18/2017 at 2:25 PM, the admiral said:

Houston, a city full of people who used to live somewhere else with a large black/Hispanic native population and exurban sprawl out the ass, has the profile of an absolutely terrible NHL market. I'm sure the league couldn't be more excited about being there.

 

6 hours ago, the admiral said:

maybe not now :(

 

so long and thanks for all the fish.

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Possibly interesting news out of San Diego this morning. The local sports talk station 1090 broke that later this week there's going to be an announcement of a new NBA/NHL ready arena going up in San Diego's east village. The privately financed arena on 80 acres of already acquired land will initially house an expansion NLL team (and possibly one or both of the current tenants of San Diego's existing 51 year old public arena the Gulls of the AHL and Sockers of the MASL). But the long term goal by the owner of the arena will be to acquire an NBA team and possibly an NHL team (given San Diego's runaway success in the AHL). Joseph Tsai, founder of Alibaba.com and La Jolla resident is the money and drive behind the project.

 

http://www.mighty1090.com/episode/dan-sileo-a-new-arena-lacrosse-team-and-possible-nba-team-in-san-diego/

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16 hours ago, bosrs1 said:

Possibly interesting news out of San Diego this morning. The local sports talk station 1090 broke that later this week there's going to be an announcement of a new NBA/NHL ready arena going up in San Diego's east village. The privately financed arena on 80 acres of already acquired land will initially house an expansion NLL team (and possibly one or both of the current tenants of San Diego's existing 51 year old public arena the Gulls of the AHL and Sockers of the MASL). But the long term goal by the owner of the arena will be to acquire an NBA team and possibly an NHL team (given San Diego's runaway success in the AHL). Joseph Tsai, founder of Alibaba.com and La Jolla resident is the money and drive behind the project.

 

http://www.mighty1090.com/episode/dan-sileo-a-new-arena-lacrosse-team-and-possible-nba-team-in-san-diego/

 

You know what? I don't recommend most Sunbelt cities for the NHL but given their history with hockey and history of solid support (and with the right ownership/arena situation), I'd recommend San Diego (Houston too). Similar to Utah (though that's not a sunbelt locale), can't be any worse than Phoenix or Las Vegas...right?

 

Edited by DustDevil61
Can't be worse, right? Right?

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7 minutes ago, the admiral said:

That's too much NHL for Southern California. It would be a second Anaheim and the first one isn't setting the world on fire business-wise.

 

Not sure about that. San Diego is a much different market than OC that so far has proven to be hockey crazy with the Gulls tearing it up the last two seasons. The big issues would be that the Ducks likely consider San Diego part of their extended market, hence they put the AHL Gulls in San Diego. Not sure if they have any exclusivity to that effect but they may object. That and part of why the Gulls have succeeded I suspect is because they're AHL, and not NHL. Many in their fan base, myself included, are fans of other NHL teams but root for the Gulls because they're not a competitor to our NHL sides. That dynamic would change a bit if there were suddenly an NHL team in SD.

 

But a team in San Diego could do just fine if SD were given a chance I suspect. We're currently a one team town at the top level of sports and a 0 team town for much of the NBA/NHL season.

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25 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

The big issues would be that the Ducks likely consider San Diego part of their extended market, hence they put the AHL Gulls in San Diego. Not sure if they have any exclusivity to that effect but they may object.

 

I don't think they could stop it any more than they could stop Las Vegas (which, come to think of it, L.A./San Diego/Anaheim/Las Vegas is REALLY too much hockey for that corner of America. That's four teams where I'd have one).

 

Also, AHL over NHL helps because NHL price points are ridiculously high in most cities.

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40 minutes ago, the admiral said:

 

I don't think they could stop it any more than they could stop Las Vegas (which, come to think of it, L.A./San Diego/Anaheim/Las Vegas is REALLY too much hockey for that corner of America. That's four teams where I'd have one).

 

Also, AHL over NHL helps because NHL price points are ridiculously high in most cities.

 

Why would you say it's too much in "that corner of America"? I mean that's like saying having teams in Philly, NJ, NY, and Boston is too many in that corner of America...

 

Admittedly Vegas was an odd choice, and we've no idea if it'll work out or not. But all 4 teams/potential teams serve different markets (or in Anaheim's case a sub-market in greater LA).

 

 

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10 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

Why would you say it's too much in "that corner of America"?

I've never been keen on supersaturating the American Southwest for the frozen-pond game, this is not a revelation to anyone who's read this board

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Just now, the admiral said:

I've never been keen on supersaturating the American Southwest for the frozen-pond game, this is not a revelation to anyone who's read this board

 

Guess I can understand that feeling. Particularly when the only team to now in the Southwest is the Coyotes, who continue to limp along like some sort of sick joke by Bettman. And as I said the other newbies in Vegas are a completely unknown quantity at this point.

 

That said, the two other southwestern teams (if you consider California part of the Southwest), have done remarkably well in LA and Anaheim. The California teams have never been an "issue" in the Sunbelt.

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1 hour ago, bosrs1 said:

Why would you say it's too much in "that corner of America"? I mean that's like saying having teams in Philly, NJ, NY, and Boston is too many in that corner of America...

Hockey is regional, and one of those regions has a better track record supporting NHL hockey than another. 

 

The LA teams have secured niches for themselves but they aren't runaway successes. Arizona is a joke, as you admitted. And Vegas will have the NFL in due time. Not to mention the NHL team can't even get on tv in their local market due to their own gross mismanagement. So while Vegas is still an unknown? It looks more and more like a Coyotes in making sort of situation. 

 

As far as San Diego goes? Maybe it'll work, but I'm sorry. There's no way San Diego tops Quebec City as a potential NHL market.

 

Of course the NHL will likely choose SD over QC, but the NHL makes bad business decisions on a nearly daily basis. 

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12 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Hockey is regional, and one of those regions has a better track record supporting NHL hockey than another. 

 

The LA teams have secured niches for themselves but they aren't runaway successes. Arizona is a joke, as you admitted. And Vegas will have the NFL in due time. Not to mention the NHL team can't even get on tv in their local market due to their own gross mismanagement. So while Vegas is still an unknown? It looks more and more like a Coyotes in making sort of situation. 

 

As far as San Diego goes? Maybe it'll work, but I'm sorry. There's no way San Diego tops Quebec City as a potential NHL market.

 

Of course the NHL will likely choose SD over QC, but the NHL makes bad business decisions on a nearly daily basis. 


How is Quebec City's team doing in whatever league they have currently. Not saying it's indicative of what an NHL team will do, but I am curious. I mean it would stand to reason Quebec would do better than San Diego. But frankly San Diego's attachment to Hockey at the AHL level has taken both the team and league by surprise. They've been second only to Hershey PA now two years in a row in terms of attendance.

 

As for the other NHL teams not being runaway successes. Anaheim does have a nice niche for itself. The Kings I'd say have been a runaway success.

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