Uniform "Rules"

[WavePunter]

You hit the nail on the head when you said it was the point here.. I'm not trying to grade anything here, and your grading scale seems to be subjective enough that multiple people could come out with vastly differing grades for teams.. My point was to just try to narrow down how we look at uniforms, what we value as important or "a necessity" in uniform design, and honestly, to kinda force people to choose a side with certain things about which they feel strongly.. I've seen people commend one logo due to its rich detail and accurate depiction, then turn around and nitpick another logo for being too much of an illustration and not really a logo, when I may consider the two to be on par with one another (and I could come up with several other similar examples, you get the point).. But I always find it fun and helpful in situations where multiple people are analyzing and collaborating, to force people to evaluate and essentially "define" their own stance on a topic.. Often it leads to open-mindedness and enhanced discussion on the topic at hand.. Granted, this is a separate thread and unrelated to any specific topic, but that doesn't mean it won't be fun to see what sort of thought each of us puts into uniform critique, and gauge the various levels of importance each of us places on the different elements of a uniform.. Of course, my "Rules" are probably skewed slightly toward my personal preference, but I also leave plenty of room for custom and "proprietary" options within my Rules.. During the four years I spent broadcasting college and high school football games on the radio, I discovered that white numbers on colored jerseys (usually with secondary-color outline) are A: infinitely easier to see, and B: typically classier and nicer-looking if the uniform has ANY other white to offer some balance (and usually even if it doesn't).. It's just a very professional looking thing, and most teams don't consider the shade of their secondary color when making uniform decisions, so they end up putting red numbers on a blue jersey or orange numbers on a brown jersey, and it can't be read from any sort of distance.. And a number that can't be read looks like a blob, and no one designs uniforms with blobs on the chest.. The high school team I did the radio for wore navy jerseys with powder blue numbers, and you couldn't make them out at all from the box (and I have 20/20 vision), and of the weather was bad --- forget it..

As for my helmet and pant striping, that's pretty much just opinion, but again, aesthetic logic is involved.. For example, if the cowboys swapped their stripe colors, it would be W/B/W on a silverish helmet, so from any distance, the white stripes could get lost and blurred with the silvery color of the helmet, but instead, the light colors are separated by the darker stripes, and the white is set off nicely sandwiched between the blues. The Washington redskins and Carolina gamecocks both have it backwards on their helmets IMO, as did the browns recently and the dolphins in the 80's.. Sure, it's personal preference, but not based solely on what I think looks good.. But rather, it's based on logic that benefits the display and presentation of a teams colors, the visual limitations of the viewers, and a common appreciation of proper display..

A grading scale is certainly a nice idea though, but some objective qualities should also be considered. It would also be nice to incorporate a way to differentiate between teams who have a similar grade but Team 1 has a certain great unique element that brings a crappy C uniform up to a B, whole Team 2 has a single element bringing an A uniform down to a B.. Because a uniform that's a few tweaks away from bumping up a grade level is probably an overall better uniform than one that had kinda maxed itself out as good as it can at the same level as the other..

I do like the idea though, and the thought/precision that went into your grading scale is creative and rather genius!

i don't want to dimish the point of the thread at all and no one can say you're wrong in your taste and preferences. your point about white numbers stood out to me here though, because that is an area that alway requires a lot of thought when doing concepts of my own.

personally, i think color numbers on color jerseys is a great look, so in order to execute that with maximum readibility, you have to look not only at the contrast in value/color of the numbers but the number font itself. the craftsmaship and readability of numbers is something i would account for in my grading scale. often, a number font starts out bad and after a designer/team applies multiple strokes to it or drop shadows, or sublimated textures, if decreaces the readability of the number. you'll sometimes see 2's, 5's, 6's close up after all the decoration is applied and completley lose the form of the number. that is bad type design and bad application.

the school whose numbers were hard to read sound like they definitely could use more contrast given their colors, but what fonts were they using? was it a traditional block? was it a block that was stroked 2 or 3 times? drop shadow? there are variables here that i think we have to account for before righting off color-oncolor as bad design. of course everyone likes what they like and maybe the most readble number in color still isn't your thing, but as a designer i don't want to eliminate any options from a design before i even get started with it.

The numbers in question were a nice standard block font with a very appropriate and typical white stroke, which is why I chose that specific example, because it was about as straight-forward as possible.. I also called college games each year against a team that uses Tennessee Titans numerals.. They were always tough to read, so you're right on with the number font issue.. They had white numbers on navy jerseys and navy numbers in white jerseys and both were tough to read.. However, the "creating concepts" issue has always been one, in my opinion, where it can look great on paper, even on a decent "mock up" template or photo-realistic template, but in an actual game / real situation, it just doesn't work as well.. To me, it just muddles it up.. That doesn't mean that I dislike the look of it, especially up nice and close, but as a general rule, for sake of the general design, readability, and the ability to accurately convey the overall aesthetic you're trying to achieve, I think white numbers are vastly superior..

And the eagles throwback is not an exception to the rule.. I agree that they look very nice, but I would never want any responsibilities during that game which involved me having to read those numbers without an HD tv.. Trying to identify a tackler from the pressbox would be darn-near impossible, as would trying to coach and pick out mistakes and identify the culprit from the sideline, etc.. But even if you threw white into the mix, all 3 colors are so light that it really wouldn't matter.. As BrandMoore stated, taking the colors AND values into account regarding tint/hue is just as important when creating a uniform concept as anything else.. Part of the work should be done in advance of the uniform design process when the colors are selected to avoid any issues like that, so a light/dark, light/medium, or medium/dark scheme can be used to create some contrast.. That's the reason the bills and dolphins both added the navy, just to bring a dark contrast to their two medium colors..

Anyway, that's why these are personal rules.. Everyone won't agree on all of them, but I've really enjoyed reading everyone's!

[sportsherald]

Much of this was worked out nearly 1000 years ago in the "rules" of heraldry (a.k.a. Rule of Tincture- yes, there are exceptions, but they actually often do prove the validity of the rule).

The basics are this:

CONTRAST- Gold (yellow) and silver (white) are metals, and black, blue, red, green, orange, brown, and purple are colours. To preserve legibility (contrast), never use metal on metal, or colour on colour. Outlining a colour in metal when it is placed on another colour, e.g. black on red, outlined in white, can be made to work, *if the outline is wide enough*, but it still will not provide as good a contrast as metal on colour, or vice versa. The original and current Calgary Flames uniforms serve to illustrate this.

CLARITY- The best designs are recognised from a distance (it's important to distinguish who you are, and what side you're on, in the heat of battle), so, although some artistic detail can be used to enhance the image close up, this must not be to the point that the basic image from a distance is blurred. This applies to number fonts, as well as to logos.

I have ranted repeatedly about these principles (it's the source of my user name and a short rant is even in my profile signature here), which are ignored very often in sports logos and uniforms, in the name of originality or creativity. While breaking the rules can sometimes be eye-catching (the Kingdom of Jerusalem had the honour of using metal on metal, golden crosses on a silver background, during the era of the Crusades, since it was "above worldly rules"), these cases also demonstrate, for example, that yellow on white is not easy to see clearly​ from very far away (see also the white Flames logo outlined in yellow). England's golden lions on red provide a classic example of following the rules, to good effect.

[Sterling84v2.0]

"WavePunter, the kind of control you're attempting is not possible. If there's one thing the history of uniform design has taught us, it's that patterns will not be contained. Color breaks free. It expands to new territories. It crashes through barriers painfully, maybe even dangerously, but - well, there it is."

I'm not attempting any kind of control.. I have no idea what you're talking about, and it seems like you might not either.. I know we all view uniform design elements differently when judging whether a uniform is "good" or not, and I just thought it would be fun to see what each person considers important in uniform design, that is all.. I have no desire to control anyone or anything on these boards. Just wanted everyone to share their opinion regarding uniform aesthetic "Rules of thumb"

"You don't know what I'm talking about? You've heard of uniform theory? No? Non-Linear stripe patterns? Strange gradient font choices? WavePunter, I refuse to believe that YOU are unfamiliar with the concept of font choices."

Sorry man. I was not trying to bust your chops. I thought the cheeky Jurassic Park references would be obvious enough and well-received given the way summer has begun this year.

But I immediately did think of that line of that movie because I do believe what you're talking about is very ambitious. I'm not even sure I could categorize hard and fast rules for MY OWN opinions necessarily. Rough guidelines maybe. And so that's what I wanted to say. Not that I don't appreciate the thought behind it or the effort. But I'm not sure I even support the notion of a rulebook if it were feasible. Part of the beauty of what we do here is the disagreement and IS the idea of celebrating what works despite itself. If you or I were charged with unifying all the teams under any of our given rules I bet the results would underwhelm even us in the end.

But, as a thought experiment it's not entirely un-fun. So..... I wanted to also ask. Don't you think you're bringing a specific set of preferences and parameters to the equation from the press box perspective? Of course. And that's reasonable. You're basically saying form is no longer always following function. TV numerals in particular are called such to help folks like you do their jobs and further market the sport. IF they are hard to read from distance they have failed their first (and only) goal. Yes? I'm sympathetic to that and generally agree.

However, I've also argued I think the NFL could drop TV numerals altogether and not miss a beat. There's enough coverage from HD cameras; Enough time between plays, enough producers in the ear, and small enough roster size for the broadcasters to (I'm guessing) handle it pretty easily College or HS? Less so I'm sure. Way more players....way less broadcast resources oftentimes. (I'm guessing)

In the NBA? Player faces and each person actually makes a substitution to announce they are entering the game. Hardly any reason at all for the numeral on front anymore other than to perhaps assist refs with foul calls. MLB moves slow enough and has lineup cards. You wouldn't NEED any of it necessarily except for tradition.

Hockey I suppose would be tricky with line changes and all. . Numerals probably help a lot. But I'll be honest I have no idea how the really good hockey play by play folks do what they do to begin with. That's a friggin art. So I defer to them.

I would guess though that we are close to RFID or transponder tech that could "tag" players and display their names (and tons of other relevant info) in real time on a separate screen for broadcasters too. Right? We already have the eye in the sky shot tracker computers in arenas and NASCAR can display the driver name, number, position, telemetry and distance to leader all in a little call out box onscreen in real time. How long til that chip is tiny enough it can be sewn in a jersey seam and used to enhance the broadcast experience? I give it 3 years.

SO my point is are we REALLY willing to let form dictate function in new ways? And let it go when not fully necessary anymore? Because I've had discussions where I think maybe we're not being fully honest with ourselves an uniform aficionados sometimes. Fashion...the role of a uniform to be a tool to sell merchandise and generate revenue? Is increasingly a function as well. We don't have to like it. But it's naive to think it isn't true. And as such arbitrarily burning through alternates and changes makes (retail) sense to some degree. Making something someone would want to wear out and about and viewed up close MIGHT make sense.

I'm personally a classicist myself. Packers, Raiders, Red Wings, Celtics. (all of which I'm sure obey most of your rules) Etc. Gimme those looks. But I don't want to miss the forest for the trees and just gripe all the time and time moves around and past me. I for one am not going to be the old man on the porch willingly.

If you acknowledge at all that function might include fashion attractiveness for revenue? I think it opens the door to what is happening.

Also while I tend to agree with you in the sense that Brashear (sp?) stripes (dark-white-dark) work really well? And that I was raised a Packers fan that will always seem to be the "right" way in my heart? The inverse can absolutely be superior if the colors in question are correct. The Chiefs sleeve stripes. The 80s Broncos helmet stripes. The blackhawks (red) jersey sleeve stripes. All of which looks superior white-color-white. So I guess you could do a bunch of permutations and subclauses that define the when and where based on all the variables> But by the time you're done? You will have essentially just documented all the ways something can be....rather than proscribe how it "should" be.

With ALL that said....I'll add to the pile one of my own; that I have yet to personally see a wordmark under a collar in the NFL that I actually like. It's superfluous but more importantly also pushes the numerals down onto the belly. Boo. Chest numerals belong on the chest until proven otherwise.

[EDIT*] thought of another. I've often wondered (and I'm not alone) why numerals on the roofs of NASCARs read from the infield and not the grandstands. Were all the broadcasters always in the infield at first? Is it a nod to the hardcore fans who sit in the infield? Was it so the team could read it instead from on the pitbox? I don't have a perfect solution because tracks are so different. But I wouldn't mind of they swapped it around every now and again so we could read the numerals while watching in person.

[WavePunter]

I used to be with you on the NASCAR question, having grown up in the deep south, but as you hypothesized, yes, it's for the crew chief and spotter to identify their car.. It always bothered me that the numbers were facing away from their fans..

And, as I've stated previously, you're absolutely correct.. Something outside my personal rules can certainly look great and be fashionable, but as a general rule, I think my preferences apply pretty well across the board.. For example, the Browns new brown jersey and jags teal jersey would both look better with white numbers, particularly from any sort of distance, but as fashion apparel, I think they do a great job of displaying the team's colors and look great up close.. I also think cleverly and properly executed violations of my "rules" can work as well.. The 80's Broncos helmet used a lot of white in the logo and a white facemask to help white be a prominent color and found a way to make it work, although in doing so, they were actually following all of my striping consistency rules.. Helmet and pants kept consistency by keeping orange as the center stripe color, and the consistency from pants to orange jersey was upheld with blue outside stripes.. Overall, it can certainly be tough to follow ALL the rules to the letter, but if you can follow the vast majority and still achieve your desired aesthetic, I think the result will look better than if the rules are ignored.. Also, my rules were very clearly intended specifically for football, as I think color on color numbers and varied striping patterns actually work very well in other sports for a variety of reasons..

But at the end of the day you're correct, fashion and aesthetic greatness should not be confined by classic guidelines, and some great designs are great by virtue of breaking the mold.. And yes, it would be very difficult to compile an actual RULEBOOK and enforce it on any level, but that was not my intention here.. I just wanted to see what everyone thought of their own uniform "rules" and aesthetic preferences. I wanted everyone to share and see how much we all saw things similarly as well as how much differently we view other things.. Just for fun.. And so far I've enjoyed the discussion

[1insaneguy]

[ConcreteCharlie]

My rule is that in baseball, whether you're pants are as high as Hunter Pence or low as Don Mattingly just show some gosh darn sock

[sportzfan]

Holy crap, this thread has the longest posts on this entire boards probably. This makes IceCaps posts seem small

[the_grateful_ted]

My rule is that in baseball, whether you're pants are as high as Hunter Pence or low as Don Mattingly just show some gosh darn sock

I am not a fan of baseball at all, but ascetically stirrups are one the coolest things in the entire universe

[ConcreteCharlie]

My rule is that in baseball, whether you're pants are as high as Hunter Pence or low as Don Mattingly just show some gosh darn sock

I am not a fan of baseball at all, but ascetically stirrups are one the coolest things in the entire universe

I am also a huge stirrup fan

[WavePunter]

My rule is that in baseball, whether you're pants are as high as Hunter Pence or low as Don Mattingly just show some gosh darn sock

I am not a fan of baseball at all, but ascetically stirrups are one the coolest things in the entire universe

I am also a huge stirrup fan

Bingo.. Stirrups are sweet

[Sterling84v2.0]

Well, listen. To each their own and everything. I REALLY like striped socks in baseball; the way the Red Sox or Cards look especially when they are used.

But stirrups are the definition of form no longer following function. We haven't been worried about the adverse health effects of colored dyes in like a million years. This is actually legacy holdover garbage....it's complete extraneous fetish.

So I dunno how that could POSSIBLY be on a serious list of practical rules. Now, I would think that since all other leagues and sports wear "short pants" for increased mobility? That you could make a practical case that baseball should return to more knickered look and that high striped socks would really add pizzazz to the sport.

But do they need to be doubled up socks with goofy little loopies in them? Of course not. That's kind of parallel to the laces on hockey jersey issue but ramped up tenfold. IMO. Stirrups are olde timey and should be reserved for teams like the Janks and Sawks and throwback games and stuff.

[WavePunter]

Although the function of avoiding health risks is gone by the wayside, the aesthetic is still preferable by many.. Especially when a portion of the sanitary beneath is visible.. Putting helmet stripes on football helmets is form without function, since they aren't even team-identifiers like the helmet logo.. Everyone hates the baggy pajama bottom look of current baseball pants, but I'd assume that adds mobility as well.. More than one way to skin a cat.. And as I suggested, certain uniform elements are added for aesthetic value, when function isn't an issue, so to judge one solely based on the other would lead to a LOT of minimizing over all sports and some boring uniforms across the board.. I mean, pinstripes serve no function AWAY WITH THEM!

[Packid]

A few rules for baseball caps:

• Eyelets should never contrast with the crown.
• Stitching should never contrast with the crown.
• The squatchee should always match the primary color of the logo. The exception is if the logo is white - then the squatchee should match the rest of the crown.
• A cap should never have a contrasting bill without a contrasting squatchee.

[Sterling84v2.0]

Although the function of avoiding health risks is gone by the wayside, the aesthetic is still preferable by many.. Especially when a portion of the sanitary beneath is visible.. Putting helmet stripes on football helmets is form without function, since they aren't even team-identifiers like the helmet logo.. Everyone hates the baggy pajama bottom look of current baseball pants, but I'd assume that adds mobility as well.. More than one way to skin a cat.. And as I suggested, certain uniform elements are added for aesthetic value, when function isn't an issue, so to judge one solely based on the other would lead to a LOT of minimizing over all sports and some boring uniforms across the board.. I mean, pinstripes serve no function AWAY WITH THEM!

I think I'd push back a little bit on that helmet analogy. Stripes are added to (some) helmets just cause it looks cool. But helmets themselves are not for looks. Stirrups and sanis by contrast are now simply for looks and nostalgia when ordinary socks will do fine.

Socks aren't superfluous. People get blisters without socks. Shoes get funky. We're veering off into equipment vs uniform now just a touch I think.

I think a slightly more on point analogy might be SLEEVES on football jerseys. Preferable to many...including every retail version. But long since evolved out of existence except for a few lame-o QBs and kickers. And they evolved out of existence for performance reasons...i.e. they were no longer necessary.

[bwburke94]

For football:

1. Jersey and pants should never be the same color, unless white or light gray. Seahawks gray-on-gray is a "good" example here.

2. Numbers on dark jerseys should be light or at least have light outlines, and numbers on light jerseys should be dark or have dark outlines.

3. Dark socks with light pants, and light socks with dark pants. No exceptions, unless you're doing a throwback.

4. Don't drop shadow the numbers, it just looks tacky. The 49ers could pull it off in the nineties because it was the nineties.

For baseball:

1. Team name at home, city name on the road.

2. The primary color of the numbers should contrast the primary color of the jersey.

3. The batting helmet should always be the same color as the cap.

For basketball:

1. No sleeves.

2. No contrasting jersey/shorts.

3. The jersey should be solid colored, except for side panels. No bull like the two-tone Sacramento set from a while back.

4. It's okay to wear color at home, but never to wear white on the road. Also, don't wear color at home if your opponent's primary away jersey fails to contrast with your color jersey.

[the_grateful_ted]

<p>

A few rules for baseball caps:

• Eyelets should never contrast with the crown.
• Stitching should never contrast with the crown.
• The squatchee should always match the primary color of the logo. The exception is if the logo is white - then the squatchee should match the rest of the crown.
• A cap should never have a contrasting bill without a contrasting squatchee.

Tried looking this up but what's a squatchee?

[Hat Boy]

Tried looking this up but what's a squatchee?

The "button" on the top of the hat. In this pic, it is green squatchee on a yellow crown with a green brim:

[BrandMooreArt]

the NASCAR roof numbers are an interesting topic. i assume they are the way they because most TV angles are from the infield persepective and with the high banking of most tracks, they lean away from the grandstands anyway.

being readable to the fans is probably their 3rd most important function. 2 would be readability from broadcasters (serving a larger audience) and #1 would be redability from the spotters who usually line the outside of the track, above the grandstands. but what does readability mean for them? its different than legibility. the cars are moving so fast and usually close together that actually reading the number itself doesnt really matter - they're looking for color and shape.

in other series with no spotters and with the announcers serving the fans at the track, they face the other way.

those numbers are often angled as well to adjust for the sideways sliding of the cars

[oddball]

the NASCAR roof numbers are an interesting topic. i assume they are the way they because most TV angles are from the infield persepective and with the high banking of most tracks, they lean away from the grandstands anyway.

being readable to the fans is probably their 3rd most important function. 2 would be readability from broadcasters (serving a larger audience) and #1 would be redability from the spotters who usually line the outside of the track, above the grandstands. but what does readability mean for them? its different than legibility. the cars are moving so fast and usually close together that actually reading the number itself doesnt really matter - they're looking for color and shape.

in other series with no spotters and with the announcers serving the fans at the track, they face the other way.

those numbers are often angled as well to adjust for the sideways sliding of the cars

The answer to this is simple. When NASCAR began, the officials scoring the race were located in the infield and needed to read the roof numbers, so they face towards the infield for that reason.

[WavePunter]

Although the function of avoiding health risks is gone by the wayside, the aesthetic is still preferable by many.. Especially when a portion of the sanitary beneath is visible.. Putting helmet stripes on football helmets is form without function, since they aren't even team-identifiers like the helmet logo.. Everyone hates the baggy pajama bottom look of current baseball pants, but I'd assume that adds mobility as well.. More than one way to skin a cat.. And as I suggested, certain uniform elements are added for aesthetic value, when function isn't an issue, so to judge one solely based on the other would lead to a LOT of minimizing over all sports and some boring uniforms across the board.. I mean, pinstripes serve no function AWAY WITH THEM!

I think I'd push back a little bit on that helmet analogy. Stripes are added to (some) helmets just cause it looks cool. But helmets themselves are not for looks. Stirrups and sanis by contrast are now simply for looks and nostalgia when ordinary socks will do fine.

Socks aren't superfluous. People get blisters without socks. Shoes get funky. We're veering off into equipment vs uniform now just a touch I think.

I think a slightly more on point analogy might be SLEEVES on football jerseys. Preferable to many...including every retail version. But long since evolved out of existence except for a few lame-o QBs and kickers. And they evolved out of existence for performance reasons...i.e. they were no longer necessary.

I think most here would argue that the football helmet is as much a part of the uniform as it is equipment, so I think my analogy us plenty on point. Football jerseys still have sleeves, they've just been reduced.. But the same argument could apply, in that they have maintained sleeve design elements such as sleeve stripes because they are aesthetically pleasing, although they serve no purpose.. I agree that striped socks are great, but I also think there's still a place in baseball for stirrups and sani's.. If it's a certain look they're trying to achieve, and stirrups are the way to achieve it, then I think that's 100% the way to go