What if Quebec had voted to separate from Canada?

[CubsFan4Life]

What on earth would they have done about the Canadiens name and logo?

[TBGKon]

Probably call the team the Habs

[habsfan1]

What on earth would they have done about the Canadiens name and logo?

I already had this discussion with a few people in my personnal entourage and somewhere on the boards too. Can't remember the thread, but it's there somewhere.

So the thing is...the term ''Canadiens'' with an E does not imply a group of regular Canadian citizens as we know it in french spelling. Back in the days, there were some form of territories, not a country, and they referred to themselves as Canadiens and also ''Les Habitants'', meaning the group that lived in that said Canadien territory. Which also explains the Habs nickname origin. Canada the country was originally formed in 1867, but there were plenty of constitution changes and I don't have those covered. But nonetheless, it seems like there were 2 Canadian areas in some shape or form at some point, which is why one is spelt with an E, the other with an A.

So since the name's origin does not refer to Canada the country, the Canadiens won't technically have a name that's out of place. But even if it was, there's no way it would change for obvious reasons. Adding to the point, there are no lakes in LA, and no Jazz in Utah and those franchises don't have a problem with their team's name, so this would just end up being another one of those examples. But fortunately because of the origin, there won't be an asterix next to the Canadiens name, and there's no need to fear because they won't ever be forced to consider changing to this...

[HailGoldPants]

I always wondered this too. Thanks for the explanation habsfan.

[AnPheitseog]

What on earth would they have done about the Canadiens name and logo?

I already had this discussion with a few people in my personnal entourage and somewhere on the boards too. Can't remember the thread, but it's there somewhere.

So the thing is...the term ''Canadiens'' with an E does not imply a group of regular Canadian citizens as we know it in french spelling. Back in the days, there were some form of territories, not a country, and they referred to themselves as Canadiens and also ''Les Habitants'', meaning the group that lived in that said Canadien territory. Which also explains the Habs nickname origin. Canada the country was originally formed in 1867, but there were plenty of constitution changes and I don't have those covered. But nonetheless, it seems like there were 2 Canadian areas in some shape or form at some point, which is why one is spelt with an E, the other with an A.

So since the name's origin does not refer to Canada the country, the Canadiens won't technically have a name that's out of place. But even if it was, there's no way it would change for obvious reasons. Adding to the point, there are no lakes in LA, and no Jazz in Utah and those franchises don't have a problem with their team's name, so this would just end up being another one of those examples. But fortunately because of the origin, there won't be an asterix next to the Canadiens name, and there's no need to fear because they won't ever be forced to consider changing to this...

Also, let us not forget the name of the team, Le Club du Hockey Canadien. Would have been simple enough to keep everything the same as well, and potentially drop the Canadien at the end.

Also, Canada existed before confederation in 1867, with the United Province and before that, Upper Canada and Lower Canada.

[macalesterscots]

More broadly speaking, how would this have influenced North American sports in general (if at all)?

[IceCap]

What on earth would they have done about the Canadiens name and logo?

I already had this discussion with a few people in my personnal entourage and somewhere on the boards too. Can't remember the thread, but it's there somewhere.

So the thing is...the term ''Canadiens'' with an E does not imply a group of regular Canadian citizens as we know it in french spelling. Back in the days, there were some form of territories, not a country, and they referred to themselves as Canadiens and also ''Les Habitants'', meaning the group that lived in that said Canadien territory. Which also explains the Habs nickname origin. Canada the country was originally formed in 1867, but there were plenty of constitution changes and I don't have those covered. But nonetheless, it seems like there were 2 Canadian areas in some shape or form at some point, which is why one is spelt with an E, the other with an A.

So since the name's origin does not refer to Canada the country, the Canadiens won't technically have a name that's out of place. But even if it was, there's no way it would change for obvious reasons. Adding to the point, there are no lakes in LA, and no Jazz in Utah and those franchises don't have a problem with their team's name, so this would just end up being another one of those examples. But fortunately because of the origin, there won't be an asterix next to the Canadiens name, and there's no need to fear because they won't ever be forced to consider changing to this...

Also, let us not forget the name of the team, Le Club du Hockey Canadien. Would have been simple enough to keep everything the same as well, and potentially drop the Canadien at the end.

Also, Canada existed before confederation in 1867, with the United Province and before that, Upper Canada and Lower Canada.

That's true. The term "Canadien" was used by French settlers before that, however. The British conquered New France in the Seven Years War and used the word "Canadien" as the basis for the names of the new colonies of Upper Canada and Lower Canada following an influx of British settlers fleeing the American Revolution.

Point being that the term "Canadien" could, in a historical sense, continue to refer to the Quebecois in the event that the province voted to leave Canada.

Realistically though? I don't think that's viable. The terms "Canada" and "Canadian" had come to represent the entire country by that point. A country that was mostly Anglophone. An independent Quebec in either the 80s or 90s would have wanted to drop the label "Canadian" or "Canadien" entirely. So I do see the hockey team changing in that situation. Maybe they try to stick it out as the Canadiens for a few years, but they would have changed to something eventually.

More broadly speaking, how would this have influenced North American sports in general (if at all)?

The Expos leave earlier.

As for everything else? It's hard to say. It depends on what you think Canada looks like following Quebec independence. Some people think the rest of the country would keep on trucking along. Others think an independent Quebec could have led to the breakup of Canadian Confederation. The former probably doesn't result in much change. The latter could be huge.

[4_tattoos]

Somewhat off topic: What would have become of the Montreal Alouettes in the CFL?

[habsfan1]

Realistically though? I don't think that's viable. The terms "Canada" and "Canadian" had come to represent the entire country by that point. A country that was mostly Anglophone. An independent Quebec in either the 80s or 90s would have wanted to drop the label "Canadian" or "Canadien" entirely. So I do see the hockey team changing in that situation. Maybe they try to stick it out as the Canadiens for a few years, but they would have changed to something eventually.

This is how close it came in 1995. We were one hair away from it happening for real...

And I think they have too much history to change. No rule will force them too, so it will just be what it is. But if they ever changed their name to the Montreal Hockey Club (an almost clever solution to keep the CH logo intact), I'd be done with the team. No phony gimmicky name could replace the real name.

[macalesterscots]

Somewhat off topic: What would have become of the Montreal Alouettes in the CFL?

At this time they were still in Baltimore so I don't think they would have came back in 1996

[Guy with Machete]

Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see why the Canadiens would have had to change their name in case of an independent Quebec. Celtic FC are flying Irish flags despite being on an entirely different British isle. Borussia Dortmund and Mönchengladbach still have the same name despite the fact that Prussia ceased to exist in 1947.

[BBTV]

Wouldn't things like currency and border policies have had a lot to do with the viability of major sports in an independent Quebec? Like if their new currency wasn't valued favorably compared to the Canadian dollar, or if they locked up their borders and said everyone needed visas to cross, etc. Doubt that would've Happened tho.

[Webhamster]

Wouldn't things like currency and border policies have had a lot to do with the viability of major sports in an independent Quebec? Like if their new currency wasn't valued favorably compared to the Canadian dollar, or if they locked up their borders and said everyone needed visas to cross, etc. Doubt that would've Happened tho.

But Quebec wasn't really seeking outright independence. They were seeking "sovereignty association". That basically meant that they would be independent for the purposes of having federal laws apply to them but the national museums would still exist in Quebec and they would have continued to use the Canadian dollar (or, worst case, adopted the US dollar). The borders would also have never been closed or required a passport. The status they were seeking was more that of a sovereign province more than an independent nation. Basically exempting themselves from all the responsibilities of partaking in a national legislature (taxes, federal laws, etc) while still getting to reap the benefits of it.

[BBTV]

So basically start the "CU" and CanadadianDollarZone.

[IceCap]

Wouldn't things like currency and border policies have had a lot to do with the viability of major sports in an independent Quebec? Like if their new currency wasn't valued favorably compared to the Canadian dollar, or if they locked up their borders and said everyone needed visas to cross, etc. Doubt that would've Happened tho.

But Quebec wasn't really seeking outright independence. They were seeking "sovereignty association". That basically meant that they would be independent for the purposes of having federal laws apply to them but the national museums would still exist in Quebec and they would have continued to use the Canadian dollar (or, worst case, adopted the US dollar). The borders would also have never been closed or required a passport. The status they were seeking was more that of a sovereign province more than an independent nation. Basically exempting themselves from all the responsibilities of partaking in a national legislature (taxes, federal laws, etc) while still getting to reap the benefits of it.

That's what they wanted. I doubt the Rest of Canada™ would have gone along with it. I mean there would have been nothing stopping an independent Quebec from just deciding to use the Canadian dollar, but I don't see the Canadian government agreeing to a formal currency union like the EuroZone (which, hey, turned out to be a terrible idea).

Everything else would have been more cut and dry. I don't see the Canadian government allowing independent Quebec to continue to use Canadian passports or to continue receiving transfer payments.

All of that needs to be taken account if we're going to discuss this. What Quebec separatists want =/= what would have happened.

[BBTV]

I was thinking it'd be more like the CU even without the formal currency agreement, so there would be Quebec passports, just "open borders" with the other members of the CU (essentially, the "Rest of Canada"... at first).

Of course then Quebec would have to join NATO on its own, and there like a billion other things that likely had not been considered.

[Le Québécois]

To revive an old topic... (both in this forum and in the real life)

 

No need to worry! This won't happen in our lifetime...

 

Only in Québec, two generations voted NO to an independance. We had our chances and we blew them! So screw this! The government should now put the same energy in jobs creating and to bring the economy to a better level. 

 

 

[lopernv]

21 hours ago, Le Québécois said:

To revive an old topic... (both in this forum and in the real life)

 

No need to worry! This won't happen in our lifetime...

 

Only in Québec, two generations voted NO to an independance. We had our chances and we blew them! So screw this! The government should now put the same energy in jobs creating and to bring the economy to a better level. 

 

You didn't need to bump a year old thread to express your political views and contribute nothing to the actual topic

[IceCap]

Agreed.