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Concept request: Cutback


ckunz

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Hey guys I know I shouldn't be posting this without any ideas but I just had one of the top rushers in BYU history ask me for a logo. He has a training group for high school prospects called Cutback. This is my first major project. He found me on my Twitter page and he liked my work. I was looking for some inspiration from you professionals out there.

Thanks

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Hmmm, I'll put this up there with the most ridiculous of requests I've seen on this forum. Shouldn't you be asking the client what he wants in the logo first? Then doing your own leg work to create it? Once its created you can bring it here and we can offer you tips/inspiration based on what you've already designed. 

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Guest darkpiranha

My advice would be to send him the email addresses of designers that actually have ideas and aren't afraid to come up with them.   Yes, that's a little mean, but when offered an opportunity like this, anyone who fancies themselves a graphic designer and PRESENTS themselves as a graphic designer (which I'm assuming is what you did and which led to this guy to contact you thinking you were a graphic designer) should be super-excited to come up with their own concepts and show the world what they've got.   Seriously, if your FIRST instinct is to go to a forum and ask other designers for ideas, then you really aren't ready to take on a logo request like this, and you really should pass this on to someone here rather than making yourself look bad.  

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Guest darkpiranha

My advice would be to send him the email addresses of designers that actually have ideas and aren't afraid to come up with them.   Yes, that's a little mean, but when offered an opportunity like this, anyone who fancies themselves a graphic designer and PRESENTS themselves as a graphic designer (which I'm assuming is what you did and which led to this guy to contact you thinking you were a graphic designer) should be super-excited to come up with their own concepts and show the world what they've got.   Seriously, if your FIRST instinct is to go to a forum and ask other designers for ideas, then you really aren't ready to take on a logo request like this, and you really should pass this on to someone here rather than making yourself look bad.  

 

ETA:

Okay, in actually looking at your Twitter profile, I see that you are very young and probably have actually zero experience in being a professional graphic designer, so I'll cut you a little slack.  Seriously, I hope you are offering to work on this logo for free or for the experience, because I don't think you have any business presenting yourself yet as a graphic designer.  On top of that, I scrolled a good distance on your twitter page and didn't see even ONE instance where you mention graphic design or present yourself as being a designer, so I'm not even sure what would have prompted someone to contact you about graphic design.  

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On May 29, 2016 at 0:33 PM, C-Squared said:

Are you asking for more experienced designers to volunteer the legwork for you?

This is my first ever logo request so I guess I am asking for some help

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22 hours ago, chrisCLEMENT said:

Hmmm, I'll put this up there with the most ridiculous of requests I've seen on this forum. Shouldn't you be asking the client what he wants in the logo first? Then doing your own leg work to create it? Once its created you can bring it here and we can offer you tips/inspiration based on what you've already designed. 

That's why I said I know I shouldn't be doing this. Because I don't have a concept created, I'm not supposed to post on this board  I was just asking for ideas. Because frankly, I have none. 

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2 hours ago, darkpiranha said:

My advice would be to send him the email addresses of designers that actually have ideas and aren't afraid to come up with them.   Yes, that's a little mean, but when offered an opportunity like this, anyone who fancies themselves a graphic designer and PRESENTS themselves as a graphic designer (which I'm assuming is what you did and which led to this guy to contact you thinking you were a graphic designer) should be super-excited to come up with their own concepts and show the world what they've got.   Seriously, if your FIRST instinct is to go to a forum and ask other designers for ideas, then you really aren't ready to take on a logo request like this, and you really should pass this on to someone here rather than making yourself look bad.  

That is my personal Twitter page and that's why you didn't see anything. I have a different page @lituniforms. This is my frost and yes I am inexperienced and I don't have any ideas for this project. That's exactly why I came here. 

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You want ideas?

 

Ask the guy himself what he's looking for. Then come to us.

 

You can sketch stuff decently, as I remember your hand-drawn basketball concepts. Sketch out an idea from what he gives you, and well.... we'll see where this goes.

 

Coming in with nothing never works.

new_orleans_krewe_player_sig___qb_donny_

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Guest darkpiranha

Hmm... on THAT page, there's exactly ONE logo example.  I really don't understand what your overall goal is as a designer.  You say "DM me if you want a logo!"  Are you charging people money for this?  Do they know that you have no experience whatsoever?  Do they know that you aren't capable of coming up with a single idea when someone actually takes you up on your request?  This is going to lead to nothing but trouble and stress for you.  Stress because when an actual person/client is relying on you to come up with something that will look professional and competent and represent their business/brand in the world, you'll realize you don't know what you're doing and can't address any concerns the client may have.  Trouble, because that client, especially if they are paying money, will quickly figure out that you are not what you are presenting yourself as, and could potentially sue you.  

 

 

I really think you should work on pretend/fun/concept logos for at least another year before even THINKING about presenting yourself as a designer. 

 

Seriously, what are you thinking?  

 

In the interest of actually trying to help you, should you choose to proceed with this folly, when you say you have NO ideas, from just the brief description you gave, there are tons of ideas/directions you could take this in your initial exploration of the idea.  He's a running back attempting to train other running backs (I'm presuming). How about something incorporating a silhouette or some other aspect of a running back?  It's football, so there's a mind-boggling amount of football-related elements and imagery you could look to for inspiration.  The name "Cutback" itself implies a variety of design elements, that when combined with football elements should give you more ideas than you'll be able to produce.  

 

Why do you want to do graphic design if you are incapable of coming up with a single idea?  This is what I'm find the most baffling.  I can only imagine that you think logo design is far more simple than it really is.  It doesn't seem like you're willing to do ANY work at making yourself better.   I'm not one to ever discourage someone from pursuing a creative endeavor, but in this case, I just can't figure out what about this makes you think this is a path you want to pursue?   You don't seem to have any interest in the most fun part of this, allowing your creativity to go wild...

 

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1 hour ago, darkpiranha said:

Hmm... on THAT page, there's exactly ONE logo example.  I really don't understand what your overall goal is as a designer.  You say "DM me if you want a logo!"  Are you charging people money for this?  Do they know that you have no experience whatsoever?  Do they know that you aren't capable of coming up with a single idea when someone actually takes you up on your request?  This is going to lead to nothing but trouble and stress for you.  Stress because when an actual person/client is relying on you to come up with something that will look professional and competent and represent their business/brand in the world, you'll realize you don't know what you're doing and can't address any concerns the client may have.  Trouble, because that client, especially if they are paying money, will quickly figure out that you are not what you are presenting yourself as, and could potentially sue you.  

 

 

I really think you should work on pretend/fun/concept logos for at least another year before even THINKING about presenting yourself as a designer. 

 

Seriously, what are you thinking?  

 

In the interest of actually trying to help you, should you choose to proceed with this folly, when you say you have NO ideas, from just the brief description you gave, there are tons of ideas/directions you could take this in your initial exploration of the idea.  He's a running back attempting to train other running backs (I'm presuming). How about something incorporating a silhouette or some other aspect of a running back?  It's football, so there's a mind-boggling amount of football-related elements and imagery you could look to for inspiration.  The name "Cutback" itself implies a variety of design elements, that when combined with football elements should give you more ideas than you'll be able to produce.  

 

Why do you want to do graphic design if you are incapable of coming up with a single idea?  This is what I'm find the most baffling.  I can only imagine that you think logo design is far more simple than it really is.  It doesn't seem like you're willing to do ANY work at making yourself better.   I'm not one to ever discourage someone from pursuing a creative endeavor, but in this case, I just can't figure out what about this makes you think this is a path you want to pursue?   You don't seem to have any interest in the most fun part of this, allowing your creativity to go wild...

 

I think most people would hate to get this response but this actually really helped me and I don't know if you intended it to be that way but thank you anyway. I'm working on a concept as we speak and I'll show you what I've got when I'm done. Does that sound fair?

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1 hour ago, KittSmith_95 said:

You want ideas?

 

Ask the guy himself what he's looking for. Then come to us.

 

You can sketch stuff decently, as I remember your hand-drawn basketball concepts. Sketch out an idea from what he gives you, and well.... we'll see where this goes.

 

Coming in with nothing never works.

Thank you for that. Yeah I'll sketch something out and then come back soon 

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Guest darkpiranha
21 hours ago, ckunz said:

I think most people would hate to get this response but this actually really helped me and I don't know if you intended it to be that way but thank you anyway. I'm working on a concept as we speak and I'll show you what I've got when I'm done. Does that sound fair?

Yes, I was intending it to be helpful! Even if it just meant steering you away from wasting a lot of your own time and those of clients.  Logo design can and should be lots of fun, but when you bring clients into the mix, no matter the level or size of that client, then that's a different animal.  I could see that you were clearly in over your head, and if you weren't willing to understand it and re-evaluate yourself, then YES, you needed to get out of this area of creativity entirely.  

 

But if you ARE seriously interested in this, then you need to be realistic about your own level and put in the work accordingly to get to the point where you can even call yourself a hobby-ist, much less offering services to people.  

The best advice from earlier comments was to get with the client and ask him a ton of questions about his endeavor.  Get to know him and how he envisions himself. Is he a no-nonsense sort of person or someone who wants to be on the cutting edge?  Does he want to leverage any information about himself?  For example, if you're going to use a silhouette, maybe find an actual photo of him in action and trace THAT.  Or is he well known for his jersey number?  Maybe incorporate that somehow.  Who is he trying to appeal to? The actual athletes, or the parents of the athletes?  How does he want the logo to be used?  Just on T-shirts and signs?  If he has a limited budget, you may have to make the logo usable as only a single color and simpler shapes, rather than lots of colors and lots of complex aspects to the logo (for saving on printing or embroidering).  Does he want it muted or flashy?  

Before even doing that, look up what other athletes are doing with their private training camps or QB camps or other self-branding things.  See what's out there in the market already and try to keep those things in mind as you ask him questions.  See if one of his own keywords sparks a connection to a basic concept you've seen in the world.  Not copying it, but just being aware of the kinds of directions these sorts of ventures take.  

 

Seriously, though, this is not even Logo Design 101.  This is the sort of thing that should have occurred to you in the very first instances of your own budding creativity, regardless of what format it ultimately takes.  A creative person just has endless ideas, or they see things that exist already and imagine variations of them.  If you don't have a long history of obsessing about this sort of thing, it's probably not something you can just dive into this late in the game and expect to deliver to someone who is expecting a logo designed by someone who knows what they're doing.    I'm a video producer by trade, and even though I've been doing this for more than 25 years, I watch an hour or two of tutorials, or otherwise hone my craft on non-paying/personal projects EVERY DAY.  Every day.  And it's not a chore, it's because I love this sort of thing that much and can't absorb all of this stuff fast enough to satisfy me.  Not to further discourage you, but a question you really need to ask yourself is if learning all of this software and these techniques feels like a CHORE, or an exciting opportunity.   Learning this stuff is more work than actual work and takes more time.   That said, I haven't worked a day in 25 years.   

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Guest darkpiranha
21 hours ago, ckunz said:

I think most people would hate to get this response but this actually really helped me and I don't know if you intended it to be that way but thank you anyway. I'm working on a concept as we speak and I'll show you what I've got when I'm done. Does that sound fair?

Yes, I was intending it to be helpful! Even if it just meant steering you away from wasting a lot of your own time and those of clients.  Logo design can and should be lots of fun, but when you bring clients into the mix, no matter the level or size of that client, then that's a different animal.  I could see that you were clearly in over your head, and if you weren't willing to understand it and re-evaluate yourself, then YES, you needed to get out of this area of creativity entirely.  

 

But if you ARE seriously interested in this, then you need to be realistic about your own level and put in the work accordingly to get to the point where you can even call yourself a hobby-ist, much less offering services to people.  

The best advice from earlier comments was to get with the client and ask him a ton of questions about his endeavor.  Get to know him and how he envisions himself. Is he a no-nonsense sort of person or someone who wants to be on the cutting edge?  Does he want to leverage any information about himself?  For example, if you're going to use a silhouette, maybe find an actual photo of him in action and trace THAT.  Or is he well known for his jersey number?  Maybe incorporate that somehow.  Who is he trying to appeal to? The actual athletes, or the parents of the athletes?  How does he want the logo to be used?  Just on T-shirts and signs?  If he has a limited budget, you may have to make the logo usable as only a single color and simpler shapes, rather than lots of colors and lots of complex aspects to the logo (for saving on printing or embroidering).  Does he want it muted or flashy?  

Before even doing that, look up what other athletes are doing with their private training camps or QB camps or other self-branding things.  See what's out there in the market already and try to keep those things in mind as you ask him questions.  See if one of his own keywords sparks a connection to a basic concept you've seen in the world.  Not copying it, but just being aware of the kinds of directions these sorts of ventures take.  

 

Seriously, though, this is not even Logo Design 101.  This is the sort of thing that should have occurred to you in the very first instances of your own budding creativity, regardless of what format it ultimately takes.  A creative person just has endless ideas, or they see things that exist already and imagine variations of them.  If you don't have a long history of obsessing about this sort of thing, it's probably not something you can just dive into this late in the game and expect to deliver to someone who is expecting a logo designed by someone who knows what they're doing.    I'm a video producer by trade, and even though I've been doing this for more than 25 years, I watch an hour or two of tutorials, or otherwise hone my craft on non-paying/personal projects EVERY DAY.  Every day.  And it's not a chore, it's because I love this sort of thing that much and can't absorb all of this stuff fast enough to satisfy me.  Not to further discourage you, but a question you really need to ask yourself is if learning all of this software and these techniques feels like a CHORE, or an exciting opportunity.   Learning this stuff is more work than actual work and takes more time.   That said, I haven't worked a day in 25 years.   

 

 

And just to be clear, I'm not talking about if this is just something you're doing for fun.  The only reason I'm saying any of this stuff and getting this harsh is because you're presenting yourself as a professional and actively seeking clients, and I don't think you realize just how far away you are from being in a position to do this.   I've played around with logo design for YEARS, and in a pinch, I can create logos, but by no means is "logo design" ever going to be one of the services I offer to a client (who isn't my friend or family member and wants me to whip something up fast and free).  I hire people to design logos for me if it really matters.  It's not just something you can slap together.  

Just trying to save you a lot of headache and on a selfish professional level, trying to keep the marketplace for skilled logo design from being further devalued by someone giving logo design a bad name.

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Commenting on the sketch itself, albeit @darkpiranha nailed exactly what should be going on between you and this HB at BYU.

 

Now, the silhouette isn't awful. It's a simple running pose that looks clean.... but the left foot looks awkward, like he twisted it. It needs to be sketched facing forward, but at an angle to look right. That might be a bit tricky for you at 1st though.

 

Also, maybe try out a few poses as well.... and PLEASE SEE WHAT THIS GUY ACTUALLY WANTS.

new_orleans_krewe_player_sig___qb_donny_

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27 minutes ago, KittSmith_95 said:

Commenting on the sketch itself, albeit @darkpiranha nailed exactly what should be going on between you and this HB at BYU.

 

Now, the silhouette isn't awful. It's a simple running pose that looks clean.... but the left foot looks awkward, like he twisted it. It needs to be sketched facing forward, but at an angle to look right. That might be a bit tricky for you at 1st though.

 

Also, maybe try out a few poses as well.... and PLEASE SEE WHAT THIS GUY ACTUALLY WANTS.

Okay so here is some pictures of him and the current logo for Cutback 

image.jpeg

image.png

image.jpeg

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