Las Vegas NHL Expansion

[The_Admiral]

The single sword with the star doesn't encroach on the Sabres the way the real one does.

 

All the other logos encroach on the Senators.

 

[Sport]

On 12/14/2016 at 3:00 PM, the admiral said:

 

Kansas City's franchise tried to do exactly that. They were going to be the Mohawks, not as in the tribe that generally hangs around upstate New York, but MO for Missouri + Jayhawks for Kansas, and wear an Indian head that was for all intents and purposes the same as the Indian Head.

 

 

I'm having flashbacks to 1997 when the Columbus NHL team name ideas were being floated around. SO MANY PEOPLE wanted to call them the Puckeyes or Buck-ice. Even as a 10 year old I thought it was idiotic. 

[sparkychewbarky]

4 minutes ago, the admiral said:

The single sword with the star doesn't encroach on the Sabres the way the real one does.

 

All the other logos encroach on the Senators.

 

 

Possibly yes...Gold helmet, red plume, similar colour scheme. I see that.

[The_Admiral]

4 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

 

I'm having flashbacks to 1997 when the Columbus NHL team name ideas were being floated around. SO MANY PEOPLE wanted to call them the Puckeyes or Buck-ice. Even as a 10 year old I thought it was idiotic. 

Yowch, that's worse than the proposed "Hockey Tonks" for the relocating Devils.

 

"Possibly"? Dude/man/bro the first two are basically both versions of the Senators' crest but with metal over the face.

[Thomas]

2 hours ago, bwburke94 said:

Only the next 50?

yeah, not sure Creamer has the strength to hand over the Cup when he is 80+, but i might be wrong  

[sparkychewbarky]

3 hours ago, the admiral said:

"Possibly"? Dude/man/bro the first two are basically both versions of the Senators' crest but with metal over the face.

 

Possibly....

 

I was so super-intriqued by the notion of an NHL franchise in Las Vegas, that I did up 2 full-blown concepts (Knights and Aces) and I gotta say, that coming up with something for the Knights was much more difficult. It was so hard to make something original.  A front-view helmet logo?...There's about a hundred of them out there!  A side-view helmet? Hello Senators and London Knights!  Crossed swords?... the Sabres would like a word with you!  I know, let's do a shield!...You mean, like your potential closest rival?!  It was a tough assignment. The sword-star was the most unique and relevant that I could think of. 

Actually, a spade-inspired knights logo would have been perfect. The iconic spade shape was designed all those years ago to represent a knight's sword or lance....But the ban on gaming references killed that idea.

 

[TheRatPack]

I think they chose two swords not to encroach on sparkys design Mind you the way they ripped off 3-4 groups now why they passed on sparky is anyones guess lol

[EasleyK]

On 12/14/2016 at 0:57 PM, Vintage White said:

I think we all know what that logo needs.

 

More cowbell ?

[wences]

On 15/12/2016 at 10:33 PM, Josh.0 said:

 

Fixed it for you.

Merci beaucoup

[B-mer]

On 12/16/2016 at 9:44 AM, sparky chewbarky said:

 

Thanks WavePunter. I photoshopped this image up over a year ago in my Las Vegas Knights thread...

 

 

It just seemed like the simplest, most effective way visually, to tie a Knights theme in with the most familiar symbol of Las Vegas.

Over the while, I've done several "helmet" logos, but I always kept the sword-star as my secondary logo...

 

 

I think the single sword version better keeps the integrity of the Las Vegas sign star and, as WavePunter said, wouldn't clash with the crossed-sword idea of the Sabres' logo.

I really like the top right helmet too. That's a great second option compared to the top left. 

[2001mark]

[sparkychewbarky]

A take from Billy Johnson...

 

"The Vegas Golden Knights have said they want to make the team a ‘global brand’. They have hired people dedicated to do that. New York Yankees caps can be seen in all corners of the world, because of the classic ‘NY’ logo playing off existing perception that NYC already has (and not because the Turks have any understanding of the game of baseball). The biggest property VGK acquired for its $500 million expansion fee is the perceived legitimized reselling of the name ‘Las Vegas’ as their own. Initially, it has been squandered. 

First off, the marks they have settled on, to sell as a ‘global brand’, pay homage to an American military institution, a tough sell in most parts of the world.

Secondly, the mark of a knight is not an icon that global markets associate with America, much less to Las Vegas. While the reference to symbolism is respected, and the nod to the Army is admirable, it is medieval, not modern, and not representative. It’s too far a leap for the merchandise buyer in Rome.

Thirdly, it does not sell Las Vegas, as a destination, to the world. And this may be its biggest failing.

Great global sports brands create more than a ‘handshake’ between the world market place and a community, city, location and lifestyle. They create an emotional connection.

Here are some great global sports brands and why they have become so:

New Zealand All Blacks. The use of the ‘silver fern’ brings New Zealand to the world. It represents their culture, heritage and mystique. The All Blacks are adopted my millions world wide.

New York Yankees. Simple; “NY” and all that it means – good and bad – to the world.

Dallas Cowboys. It reflects the world’s view of America; Cowboy movies, big, obnoxious. It’s a lone star on a helmet.

Los Angeles Lakers. Hollywood, Movies, Rappers, Nicholson. “LA”.

Las Vegas should be in this company.

Raising the team’s global profile to compete with FC Barcelona, for example, will be a tough leap. The initial tools and brand (logo, team name, word marks) to do so don’t stack up on a global scale because they do not bring Las Vegas to the world. Years and years ago the Las Vegas Wranglers toyed with dropping ‘Las’ from the name because we wanted to think this was how locals referred to our town. We were not from here ‘yet’ and ‘Vegas’ was not how locals referred to our city. Replica jerseys (and all merchandise) that had ‘Las Vegas’ on the front sold twice as well as jerseys that did not have the name of our town – so the name, or at least ‘LV’ and ‘NV’ were incorporated into the logo/uniform; this was about maximizing sales. Wranglers’ customers resided in Las Vegas; Las Vegas – simply – is the name of our city."

[BeerGuyJordan]

At this point, there is no course of action that Bill Foley can take and call a win.

 

Staying the course, by committing to the current branding, runs the risk of being publicly dragged to court by the institution he so adamantly claims to be trying to honor. Not only is that potentially expensive, but it is embarrassing, to the franchise, the owner, the league, and (most importantly) the fans. When it’s all said and done, you may find yourself in a situation where you are going to be legally required to change. Foley claims to be confident that his branding will hold up, but based on the USPTO’s interpretation of the trademark setting the tone for the entire proceeding, any IP lawyer retained by Foley who isn’t at least a little worried is a fool.
 

Even if the Golden Knights branding overcomes the obstacles, and wins the Sacred Rose and Army jousts (or if the Army decides not to legally press the issue), The brand will forever be linked to this debacle. No matter what, you will be known at the identity that was rebuffed by the entity it tried to honor, and publicly seen as having ripped off one of the oldest institutions in the nation. To top it off, it’s an identity whose reception has been lukewarm, at best, and fares even worse, among the Las Vegas population.

 

Let’s say Foley decides to rebrand. Yes, he loses millions invested into the Vegas Golden Knights brand. Yes, the move will be embarrassing, and yes, it will be seen as admitting you were wrong, by Foley, but what is gained? You get to say that you made the change on your own terms, rather than risk a judge mandating the move. You get to indicate to your fans that the franchise, and the fanbase, matters enough to set your prized “Knights” identity aside, in order to pave a more stable future. With their backs against a wall, maybe the League relaxes its “no gambling” stance, opening up a whole realm of possibilities. And, most importantly, you get a second opportunity to create a uniquely Vegas brand that speaks to the fans and the sport, instead of a lackluster identity that could be slapped anywhere, in any league, and be “good enough.” It's almost impossible for a rational person to not see the merits of this course, especially since option one risks being forced to do it, anyway, and losing more money, as well as the moral high ground.

 

But no, Foley has indicated, through the whole process, that he lacks the humility or sense to go with a voluntary rebrand. He’d rather risk going to war with the US Army over a brand they tried to discourage him from. Expensive legal battles are proven to be the fastest way to kill a franchise, in this league, especially in non-traditional markets. Foley, however, wants to risk setting himself on the path that the Thrashers walked, and the Hurricanes appear to currently be on, all over a pet name that the citizens of Las Vegas never wanted. Many saw the city as unworthy, especially compared to Quebec, but Foley has turned the Las Vegas hockey community into a laughing stock, without having to even take to the ice. I'd be impressed, if I wasn't so disgusted.

[IceCap]

5 hours ago, sparky chewbarky said:

A take from Billy Johnson...

 

"The Vegas Golden Knights have said they want to make the team a ‘global brand’. They have hired people dedicated to do that. New York Yankees caps can be seen in all corners of the world, because of the classic ‘NY’ logo playing off existing perception that NYC already has (and not because the Turks have any understanding of the game of baseball). The biggest property VGK acquired for its $500 million expansion fee is the perceived legitimized reselling of the name ‘Las Vegas’ as their own. Initially, it has been squandered. 

First off, the marks they have settled on, to sell as a ‘global brand’, pay homage to an American military institution, a tough sell in most parts of the world.

Secondly, the mark of a knight is not an icon that global markets associate with America, much less to Las Vegas. While the reference to symbolism is respected, and the nod to the Army is admirable, it is medieval, not modern, and not representative. It’s too far a leap for the merchandise buyer in Rome.

Thirdly, it does not sell Las Vegas, as a destination, to the world. And this may be its biggest failing.

Great global sports brands create more than a ‘handshake’ between the world market place and a community, city, location and lifestyle. They create an emotional connection.

Here are some great global sports brands and why they have become so:

New Zealand All Blacks. The use of the ‘silver fern’ brings New Zealand to the world. It represents their culture, heritage and mystique. The All Blacks are adopted my millions world wide.

New York Yankees. Simple; “NY” and all that it means – good and bad – to the world.

Dallas Cowboys. It reflects the world’s view of America; Cowboy movies, big, obnoxious. It’s a lone star on a helmet.

Los Angeles Lakers. Hollywood, Movies, Rappers, Nicholson. “LA”.

Las Vegas should be in this company.

Raising the team’s global profile to compete with FC Barcelona, for example, will be a tough leap. The initial tools and brand (logo, team name, word marks) to do so don’t stack up on a global scale because they do not bring Las Vegas to the world. Years and years ago the Las Vegas Wranglers toyed with dropping ‘Las’ from the name because we wanted to think this was how locals referred to our town. We were not from here ‘yet’ and ‘Vegas’ was not how locals referred to our city. Replica jerseys (and all merchandise) that had ‘Las Vegas’ on the front sold twice as well as jerseys that did not have the name of our town – so the name, or at least ‘LV’ and ‘NV’ were incorporated into the logo/uniform; this was about maximizing sales. Wranglers’ customers resided in Las Vegas; Las Vegas – simply – is the name of our city."

Not to mention that the Raiders moving to LV will probably make whatever Foley's team ends up being called an afterthought. 

Vegas is Sin City, the Raiders are one of the most well-known brands in the US' most visible sports leagues as a result of their bad boy and rebellious attitude. If the Raiders go through with the move? They'll slip into the popular consciousness as "Las Vegas' team" in a way Foley just won't be able to.  

[BeerGuyJordan]

I just realized that Viola as Secretary of the Army takes the odds of them stonewalling Foley down to nearly zero.

[BrianLion]

1 hour ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

I just realized that Viola as Secretary of the Army takes the odds of them stonewalling Foley down to nearly zero.

 

As Secretary of the Army he's sworn to protect the army's interests, not the NHL's.  It's not like Foley's team impacts his all that much anyway.   The other owners are already set to get their fat check from expansion as is. 

[BeerGuyJordan]

45 minutes ago, BrianLion said:

 

As Secretary of the Army he's sworn to protect the army's interests, not the NHL's.  It's not like Foley's team impacts his all that much anyway.   The other owners are already set to get their fat check from expansion as is. 

A. That's cute and naive

 

B. If you think he won't pave a way for a fellow NHL owner, you're kidding yourself about the sacredness of said "sworn oath."

 

C. He can easily justify it by working out a "donate so much to the USO, WWP, AmVets, etc." deal.

[bleuet]

On 19/12/2016 at 2:51 PM, Ice_Cap said:

Not to mention that the Raiders moving to LV will probably make whatever Foley's team ends up being called an afterthought. 

Vegas is Sin City, the Raiders are one of the most well-known brands in the US' most visible sports leagues as a result of their bad boy and rebellious attitude. If the Raiders go through with the move? They'll slip into the popular consciousness as "Las Vegas' team" in a way Foley just won't be able to.  

 

You can bet Foley and Bettman are praying every night the Raiders stay in Oakland.

 

[BeerGuyJordan]

22 hours ago, bleuet said:

 

You can bet Foley and Bettman are praying every night the Raiders stay in Oakland.

 

I can't imagine the Hockey Gods would hear such supplication.

[SJAnfield]

4 hours ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

I can't imagine the Hockey Gods would hear such supplication.

 

Us Northern California Raiders fans shure would appreciate it if the hockey gods gave us a hand.