2017 World Baseball Classic

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

1 hour ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

 

In a vacuum, it's a great look.  It's just a weird fit for China.  It would fit better for a European team, especially Great Britain.  Why doesn't China have a paint stroke C in the style of the 2008 Olympics type?  That would fit so much more.  

 

 

I follow the reasoning; but I don't like the thinking behind it.

 

There has never been a baseball uniform script with a paint-stroke font.  Meanwhile, the Old English lettering is as traditional as you can get in baseball.  China's use of this very traditional baseball look sends the right message; it implies that they are taking this game seriously, that they are in baseball to stay.

 

If they had gone out there wearing a very un-baseball-like script, just because the font looked sort-of Chinesey, that would have struck the wrong note, and would have undercut the team's legitimacy.

 

Also, I don't go for the idea that this look is a bad match for China.  If it's a beautiful look (as you acknowledge), then it suits anyone who has the good taste to adopt it.   Likewise, I reject the idea that the Tampa Bay Lightning's dignified uniforms are good, but not good for them.  Both looks rank near the top in their sports; and the act of adopting those looks is in each case a conscious act designed to be a statement of ambition. 

 

But I agree fully with your off-handed criticism of the Great Britain team. That team should indeed be using Old English lettering.  Unfortunately, no team put less effort into their uniforms and caps than did the blokes from Old Blighty.  And it is impossible to avoid taking that as a hint about their level of commitment to the sport.

 

China did the opposite of Britain, so deserve high praise.

[SilverBullet1929]

12 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 Unfortunately, no team put less effort into their uniforms and caps than did the blokes from Old Blighty.

You must have missed out on Pakistan's uniforms. 

[Anubis2051]

1 hour ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

You must have missed out on Pakistan's uniforms. 

 

All the qualifier uniforms were pretty basic...Brazil comes to mind as well

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

3 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

15 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 Unfortunately, no team put less effort into their uniforms and caps than did the blokes from Old Blighty.

You must have missed out on Pakistan's uniforms. 

 

1 hour ago, Anubis2051 said:

All the qualifier uniforms were pretty basic...Brazil comes to mind as well

 

I suppose that I am just most disappointed in Great Britain.  Before the last tournament, they announced a hat with a nice interlocking GB logo.

 

 

 

But then they never used it, and instead wore a cap with this nothing design:

 

 

But I guess it's no worse than the other qualifiers' caps.

 

[SilverBullet1929]

I picked on Pakistan for their jersey in the qualifier but their cap was actually wonderful. 

[hawk36]

As a comment from another thread, I hope the USA doesn't win if only because I hate their logo/uniforms. Do not want to see that win anything. 

[Silent Wind of Doom]

20 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

I follow the reasoning; but I don't like the thinking behind it.

 

There has never been a baseball uniform script with a paint-stroke font.  Meanwhile, the Old English lettering is as traditional as you can get in baseball.  China's use of this very traditional baseball look sends the right message; it implies that they are taking this game seriously, that they are in baseball to stay.

 

If they had gone out there wearing a very un-baseball-like script, just because the font looked sort-of Chinesey, that would have struck the wrong note, and would have undercut the team's legitimacy.

 

Also, I don't go for the idea that this look is a bad match for China.  If it's a beautiful look (as you acknowledge), then it suits anyone who has the good taste to adopt it.   Likewise, I reject the idea that the Tampa Bay Lightning's dignified uniforms are good, but not good for them.  Both looks rank near the top in their sports; and the act of adopting those looks is in each case a conscious act designed to be a statement of ambition. 

 

But I agree fully with your off-handed criticism of the Great Britain team. That team should indeed be using Old English lettering.  Unfortunately, no team put less effort into their uniforms and caps than did the blokes from Old Blighty.  And it is impossible to avoid taking that as a hint about their level of commitment to the sport.

 

China did the opposite of Britain, so deserve high praise.

 

Hmm...  I suppose it's a matter of whether you think the aesthetics of the uniform should fit the country, or just be a good baseball design.  Yes, Old English is a classic baseball aesthetic going back to the Athletics, Tigers, both Boston teams, etc.  But I suppose that when we take it to the realm of international cultures, I feel like it has a more disctinct cultural link than, say, cursive or varsity block.  

 

Honestly, most of the Identities are rather simple and plain, just attributed to whatever team.  But this one just feels different because it's much more complex and less generic.  It does look beautiful, especially in these colors.  But it's based on old European caligraphy and original block print lettering of a completely different alphabet and even way of writing than the primary Chinese written language.  Even if not the brushstrokes, maybe something akin to the lettering on their basketball jerseys.

 

 

The problem is, I'm struggling with where to then put the Old English, because it does deserve a spot.  Italy's looping script works so well for them and looks beautiful, although replacing the I would be nice.  The Netherlands would be a great fit, but they've kind of built up their identity, and I'm unsure how the cap logo would work.  Most other teams rarely show in the tournament, and it would be a shame to not have it around.

 

On a side note, why do some teams use their name in their native language, but some don't?

[IceCap]

22 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

If they had gone out there wearing a very un-baseball-like script, just because the font looked sort-of Chinesey, that would have struck the wrong note, and would have undercut the team's legitimacy.

Well I don't agree with that, but I'm not saying Team China ought to use a Chinesey script. I would like them to use actual Chinese characters for their wordmark. The use of old English script for Team China seems misplaced.

[ltjets21]

This may seem random but it is raining at the WBC tonight in LA. LA's new football stadium is supposed to be domed but with open air sides. As you know it is March, the same time of year as the NCAA tournament. If the Final Four were to go to LA and something like this were to happen what would they do?

[Silent Wind of Doom]

5 minutes ago, ltjets21 said:

This may seem random but it is raining at the WBC tonight in LA. LA's new football stadium is supposed to be domed but with open air sides. As you know it is March, the same time of year as the NCAA tournament. If the Final Four were to go to LA and something like this were to happen what would they do?

 

Unless there's incredibly bad winds, rain shouldn't get in anywhere where it would cause a problem... right?

[TBGKon]

12 hours ago, ltjets21 said:

This may seem random but it is raining at the WBC tonight in LA. LA's new football stadium is supposed to be domed but with open air sides. As you know it is March, the same time of year as the NCAA tournament. If the Final Four were to go to LA and something like this were to happen what would they do?

I am certain these open sides will have panels to close it off.

[coco1997]

16 hours ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

The problem is, I'm struggling with where to then put the Old English, because it does deserve a spot...Most other teams rarely show in the tournament, and it would be a shame to not have it around.

 

Australia would make sense. Plus their current identity is a little generic. 

[SilverBullet1929]

15 minutes ago, coco1997 said:

 

Australia would make sense. Plus their current identity is a little generic. 

I love the Australia look. I think it's solid. 

[coco1997]

16 minutes ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

I love the Australia look. I think it's solid. 

 

I should've been more specific. I love their logo and color scheme, but their wordmarks are a little generic. An Olde English wordmark would be an upgrade. 

[SilverBullet1929]

Just now, coco1997 said:

 

I should've been more specific. I love their logo and color scheme, but their wordmarks are a little generic. An Olde English wordmark would be an upgrade. 

As long as you keep those stars on there then yeah I could take an upgrade of the wordmark. I love the stars. 

[kroywen]

On 3/20/2017 at 9:53 PM, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

Also, I don't go for the idea that this look is a bad match for China.  If it's a beautiful look (as you acknowledge), then it suits anyone who has the good taste to adopt it.   Likewise, I reject the idea that the Tampa Bay Lightning's dignified uniforms are good, but not good for them.  Both looks rank near the top in their sports; and the act of adopting those looks is in each case a conscious act designed to be a statement of ambition. 

Couldn't agree more. I've always hated the notion of "original six" dress up in hockey, as if post-O6 teams can't wear traditional, dignified looks. I couldn't care less that the Tampa Bay Lightning only date back to the 1990s, rather than the 1920s - they shouldn't be expected to be caught in a permanent 90's timewarp, or to constantly come out with "modern" designs, just because they're a newer team.

 

In terms of China adopting a 'classic' baseball look, I think of it this way: back in the original NASL, and even in the early days on the MLS, American soccer teams often adopted Americanized uniforms with wordmarks on the front, combined with Americanized team nicknames and logos. While meant to appeal to Americans who never cared about soccer, it wound up just sending a message of "we're newcomers who are playing a bastardized version of the game." It was tough to take them seriously as proper soccer teams.

 

While there's still a slight problem with that in the MLS with nonsensical knockoff names (*cough* Real Salt Lake *cough*), on the whole, it's a lot easier to view American soccer teams as being legitimate, ambitious, and wanting to compete on the world stage when they're wearing proper uniforms with proper crests. 

 

When you're a relative newcomer, your identity is a statement to more tenured teams/fans/players about your intentions and seriousness. Good on China for sending the right message.

[Silent Wind of Doom]

1 hour ago, kroywen said:

Couldn't agree more. I've always hated the notion of "original six" dress up in hockey, as if post-O6 teams can't wear traditional, dignified looks. I couldn't care less that the Tampa Bay Lightning only date back to the 1990s, rather than the 1920s - they shouldn't be expected to be caught in a permanent 90's timewarp, or to constantly come out with "modern" designs, just because they're a newer team.

 

In terms of China adopting a 'classic' baseball look, I think of it this way: back in the original NASL, and even in the early days on the MLS, American soccer teams often adopted Americanized uniforms with wordmarks on the front, combined with Americanized team nicknames and logos. While meant to appeal to Americans who never cared about soccer, it wound up just sending a message of "we're newcomers who are playing a bastardized version of the game." It was tough to take them seriously as proper soccer teams.

 

While there's still a slight problem with that in the MLS with nonsensical knockoff names (*cough* Real Salt Lake *cough*), on the whole, it's a lot easier to view American soccer teams as being legitimate, ambitious, and wanting to compete on the world stage when they're wearing proper uniforms with proper crests. 

 

When you're a relative newcomer, your identity is a statement to more tenured teams/fans/players about your intentions and seriousness. Good on China for sending the right message.

 

I couldnt' agree with you more.  Tampa Bay looks good, and they should continue with that look.  Their logo is another subject, of course.

 

However, I'm not talking about China having a classic baseball look.  I'm talking about them having a look that has a specific cultural background that doesn't fit their cutural background.  You brought up Real Salt Lake.  The term "Real" is a tradition in soccer, taken on my numerous teams in Spain who have received patronage by the King.  It's a Spanish word.  Why is Utah, a state founded by white Mormon missionaries, whose population is mostly made up of English, Scandinavian, and German ancestry, using a Spanish word that's a tradition in Spanish soccer?  Their Hispanic population at the time the team was founded was less than 20%.  That's not the lowest amount, but high enough to give yourself a Spanish identity?  I could see Chivas naming themselves "Real Los Angeles".  They're almost 50% hispanic and it's a large part of their cultural identity.  Heck, they could have paid homage to the owner's beloved Real Madrid by calling themselves "Royal Salt Lake", but the use of "Real" is strange and has been rightly ridiculed for years.

 

THAT is the comparison I see when I look at China in Old English lettering.

[IceCap]

6 hours ago, kroywen said:

Couldn't agree more. I've always hated the notion of "original six" dress up in hockey, as if post-O6 teams can't wear traditional, dignified looks. I couldn't care less that the Tampa Bay Lightning only date back to the 1990s, rather than the 1920s - they shouldn't be expected to be caught in a permanent 90's timewarp, or to constantly come out with "modern" designs, just because they're a newer team.

My contention is that they got a "traditional, dignified" look by ripping off one from two other teams

[kroywen]

46 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

My contention is that they got a "traditional, dignified" look by ripping off one from two other teams

I do think they could have - and should have - distinguished their look from that of Toronto and Detroit more. Put Northwestern stripes on there (yes, the Leafs did use those at one time, but it hasn't been their primary since 1967), or some other striping pattern. I have no issue with the Lightning being a blue-and-white team - I think it looks far better than the black and blue mess they had before - but they should've used unique striping.

 

I know some have a problem with the Bolts wearing a look reminiscent of the Original 6 - I don't at all. The only issue I have with that set is the striping pattern, which is completely derivative of the Red Wings. (Well, that and the unnecessary "Tampa Bay" on the road uniforms, which is decidedly untraditional.)

[TBGKon]

I would've sworn this was an NHL thread....can we seriously keep this on topic?