TVIXX

MLB Changes 2017

2,793 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

That's a good point, but when your loved one dies driving drunk, and takes other people with him, that does in fact change the way you mourn his death and celebrate his life.  Especially in public. 

True but are you implying the Marlins are celebrating his life in the wrong way in public? Curious how if that's what you're saying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gothamite said:

That's a good point, but when your loved one dies driving drunk, and takes other people with him, that does in fact change the way you mourn his death and celebrate his life.  Especially in public. 

Reports were that he most likely (like extremely likely) wasn't the one driving the boat. He wasn't driving drunk, he was, almost certainly passenger, the same way it would have been if he had taken uber home from a club and the car crashed on the way home.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

 

No, nobody else finds it odd because he was a young man who was also one of the best pitchers in the entire game and was an absolute icon in Miami. The loss was tragic, and the fact that he had been doing what he was doing makes it even more tragic because of the senselessness of it all. That being said, he was acting like a young dumb kid, like most of us have at one time or another, and paid the ultimate price for it. 

 

Nobody is condoning the action. But the action doesn't make the loss hurt any less for the sport, his team mates, the fans, and his family. 

 

Also, this is has been an absolutely BRUTAL last few years when it comes to player deaths, and his was by far the biggest (with all due respect to Ventura, Treveres, etc). 

 

Who cares if he wasn't squeaky clean innocent? That's life sometimes. 

Yes, somebody else DOES find it odd.

 

Really, most of us have been hammered and stoned and gone boating near death inducing rocks?  That's not the same as 'youthful hijinks'.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, (probably)notabandwagonfan said:

Reports were that he most likely (like extremely likely) wasn't the one driving the boat. He wasn't driving drunk, he was, almost certainly passenger, the same way it would have been if he had taken uber home from a club and the car crashed on the way home.

 

Uber riders don't party with the drivers, so it's not the same.

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

Uber riders don't party with the drivers, so it's not the same.

Then it's like having a designated driver and one of Fernandez's friends who was on the boat had a clean blood test.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is one of those things where there isn't a right or wrong answer. There are deaths involved so it's a tough discussion point. I just find it strange that the Marlins are going to wear this jersey patch to commemorate him for the entire year. Whether he was driving or not, it was his boat, suspected of driving at high speeds in the middle of the night where visibility was probably very low. Two of the three on board had cocaine in their system. One was legally drunk, all had some level of alcohol in their system. This isn't like a Darryl Kile who fell to a disease. Boneheaded decisions led to this and it was preventable. It's very sad and the team was right to do a tribute to his memory, but I'm not convinced that a season long tribute is what should happen in this case.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, aawagner011 said:

I'm not convinced that a season long tribute is what should happen in this case.

Try telling that to his teammates. 

5 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

Try telling that to his teammates. 

Exactly. The team isn't saying "well, his BAC was twice the legal limit, so he had it coming to him, we don't need to honor him in any way this year. They view it from the point that we lost one of the bright young stars in baseball far too soon, one who was just entering his prime. 

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, dsaline97 said:

Exactly. The team isn't saying "well, his BAC was twice the legal limit, so he had it coming to him, we don't need to honor him in any way this year. They view it from the point that we lost one of the bright young stars in baseball far too soon, one who was just entering his prime. 

Thank you. This.

 

Also, I think it matters that this is the Marlins and it wasn't just any player it was literally one of their greatest players EVER. He's so huge to this franchise that unless he was intentionally murdering people then he needs to be honored.

 

I am a die hard Marlins fan though so I'm very emotional about this. I don't think I'm biased because I try to look at it objectively but I do know my emotions are part of this equation and I do admit that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Michael Bolton said:

Fernandez was an icon in Miami. Taveras was a fantastic player but he didn't have nearly the following and pure love from the fans that Jose did. Fernandez had an entire section of the ballpark named after him. Each one of his starts was dubbed "Jose Day" by the team itself.

 

Yes he was intoxicated when he crashed but Jose was probably the most well-loved Marlin of at least the last decade. So all the tributes, even five months after his death are understandable. It was an unfortunate circumstance, and yes he did a stupid thing, but he was HUGE with the Marlins team and fanbase. It's no surprise they are still honoring him.

 

Screw importance to the franchise.  If Oscar Taveras had been the greatest player in the franchise I would have been as unhappy with his initials being on his team's uniform.  He murdered his girlfriend.  We have the Angels remembering the loss of Nick Aidenheart due to a drunk driver, and we have the Cardinals honoring a drunk driver.

 

commemorative-patch-for-oscar-taveras_vn

 

I'd thought that Fernandez wasn't driving, and by everyone's comments I guess I was right.  I think that's a very big distinction.  In hindsight, this does seem extremely stupid, but we don't know what was going on.  Someone was sober, who could have been the one who was supposed to be driving.  For all we know, one of his idiot friends could have just grabbed the wheel and hit the gas as hard as possible in a manic fit for the thrill.  I don't know.  Nobody knows.

 

Taveras drove drunk.  Heck, he drove smashed.  It's pretty cut and dry.  That's a much more abhorrent case on the part of the Cardinals, so I'll give the Marlins the benefit of the doubt on this one.

 

5 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

If a family member dies due to sad but un-innocent actions, a funeral is still held and family members still love and mourn and remember them. It's possible to mourn someone and not condone their actions that led to their death. This is what the Marlins are doing. As long as Jose didn't intentionally murder those other two men, the tributes are OK by me. The Marlins are celebrating his life, not the actions that led to his death. 

 

My grandfather was a horrible person who caused a great amount of pain and psychological damage to a great majority of my family.  We held a viewing with no funeral talk and my uncle saying some short words at the gravesite.  He didn't say any flowery lies.  He spoke about the good points of him, the fact that he never shirked his responsibilities and always took care of his family.  You can honor someone in death and remember them for their good points.  That's different from memorializing them for a year.

 

1 hour ago, aawagner011 said:

This is one of those things where there isn't a right or wrong answer. There are deaths involved so it's a tough discussion point. I just find it strange that the Marlins are going to wear this jersey patch to commemorate him for the entire year. Whether he was driving or not, it was his boat, suspected of driving at high speeds in the middle of the night where visibility was probably very low. Two of the three on board had cocaine in their system. One was legally drunk, all had some level of alcohol in their system. This isn't like a Darryl Kile who fell to a disease. Boneheaded decisions led to this and it was preventable. It's very sad and the team was right to do a tribute to his memory, but I'm not convinced that a season long tribute is what should happen in this case.

 

There's a difference between putting yourself in a bad situation and causing a bad situation.  It was stupid, yes.  Not malicious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, (probably)notabandwagonfan said:

Reports were that he most likely (like extremely likely) wasn't the one driving the boat. He wasn't driving drunk, he was, almost certainly passenger, the same way it would have been if he had taken uber home from a club and the car crashed on the way home.

 

Except Uber drivers don't usually get drunk as :censored: and do coke with you then drive right through something that should kill you on the street going at full speed...

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ray Lankford said:

Then it's like having a designated driver and one of Fernandez's friends who was on the boat had a clean blood test.

 

Both of the other passengers were drinking that night.  Not as much BAC as Fernandez, but not spot-clean either.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dsaline97 said:

Exactly. The team isn't saying "well, his BAC was twice the legal limit, so he had it coming to him, we don't need to honor him in any way this year. They view it from the point that we lost one of the bright young stars in baseball far too soon, one who was just entering his prime. 

The blatant disregard for human life trumps "was good at baseball."

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, WSU151 said:

 

Both of the other passengers were drinking that night.  Not as much BAC as Fernandez, but not spot-clean either.

So Fernandez's real crime was trusting the wrong person.

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

The blatant disregard for human life trumps "was good at baseball."

Considering he was (presumably) in the passenger seat? I wouldn't call that blatant disregard on his part. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

 

Screw importance to the franchise.  If Oscar Taveras had been the greatest player in the franchise I would have been as unhappy with his initials being on his team's uniform.  He murdered his girlfriend.  We have the Angels remembering the loss of Nick Aidenheart due to a drunk driver, and we have the Cardinals honoring a drunk driver.

 

commemorative-patch-for-oscar-taveras_vn

 

I'd thought that Fernandez wasn't driving, and by everyone's comments I guess I was right.  I think that's a very big distinction.  In hindsight, this does seem extremely stupid, but we don't know what was going on.  Someone was sober, who could have been the one who was supposed to be driving.  For all we know, one of his idiot friends could have just grabbed the wheel and hit the gas as hard as possible in a manic fit for the thrill.  I don't know.  Nobody knows.

 

Taveras drove drunk.  Heck, he drove smashed.  It's pretty cut and dry.  That's a much more abhorrent case on the part of the Cardinals, so I'll give the Marlins the benefit of the doubt on this one.

 

 

My grandfather was a horrible person who caused a great amount of pain and psychological damage to a great majority of my family.  We held a viewing with no funeral talk and my uncle saying some short words at the gravesite.  He didn't say any flowery lies.  He spoke about the good points of him, the fact that he never shirked his responsibilities and always took care of his family.  You can honor someone in death and remember them for their good points.  That's different from memorializing them for a year.

 

 

There's a difference between putting yourself in a bad situation and causing a bad situation.  It was stupid, yes.  Not malicious.

 

I went to highschool with one of the guys on the boat that night. It was apparently the first night, or one of, he met Fernandez. The other two weren't experienced boaters.

The real experienced boaters was not with them that day, he's an older friend or family member of Jose, he always told Jose not to go out on his own especially at night.

I read a report that Jose may have even had traces of cocaine in his system. :( Just a sad night for all involved.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeaahhhh kinda we wish we could drop this already. There's no right or wrong here, it's just sad all around.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I can bring this back to the topic at hand... I love the 2 patches on the Marlins uniforms but the 16 patch is odd looking because of the slight arc of the MIAMI wordmark. Since they're not perpendicular to each other, depending on the angles one of either the 16 or the wordmark will always look crooked even though the 16 is placed correctly on the left chest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dsaline97 said:

Considering he was (presumably) in the passenger seat? I wouldn't call that blatant disregard on his part. 

 

Going full speed in the dark probably could have been mitigated by anyone, regardless of where they sat.  Usually boat owners avoid wrecking the boat no matter who is steering it.  

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, dsaline97 said:

Considering he was (presumably) in the passenger seat? I wouldn't call that blatant disregard on his part. 

Given he was partying with the driver? I would definitely call it that.

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now