TVIXX

MLB Changes 2017

4,213 posts in this topic

5 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

I think it's a little shortsighted to ditch the memorial at this point. If anything, I say keep it (permanently) as a reminder of what can happen if you make such poor decisions. Instead of burying his legacy and history like the NCAA takes bowl wins away years later (which honestly does ZERO good in the long run), use it as a teaching tool and a cautionary tale. Dude was probably the best pitcher they've ever had, and bad decisions cost him EVERYTHING. Keep the number retired and the patch so years later when kids ask why the number is retired/in a black circle, the story can be told. Humans are are flawed creatures that make bad decisions. Some make worse decisions than others. Instead of dehumanizing them for those decisions, do the opposite and learn from those decisions. 

 

A permanent memorial patch shouldn't be a reminder of bad decisions.  The Bills aren't wearing OJ patches anytime soon. The Carolina Panthers don't wear Rae Carruth's number on a patch as a reminder to "Avoid hiring someone to kill your pregnant wife".  The LA Rams aren't showcasing Lawrence Phillips' number anywhere.   Nobody will be inspired in 20 years by a dude hopped up on cocaine making bad decisions.  

 

The only real answer is to hang up the jersey in the dugout.  Best tribute ever.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you really just compare OJ murdering his wife and her lover in a cold blooded rage to Jose Fernandez?

 

I get where you're coming from to an extent (I mean, BARELY), but, come on now. 

3 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bucfan56 said:

Did you really just compare OJ murdering his wife and her lover in a cold blooded rage to Jose Fernandez?

 

I get where you're coming from to an extent, but, come on now. 

 

Do you really think professional athletes will look to a patch in order to not make bad decisions?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's not really for the athletes. 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Bucfan56 said:

It's not really for the athletes. 

 

Again, no other team honors past athletes in order to tell the general public "don't be stupid."  When I go to Wizards games, there aren't signs of Gilbert Arenas saying "Don't bring your gun to the arena!"

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're being obtuse on purpose at this point, aren't you? 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Bucfan56 said:

You're being obtuse on purpose at this point, aren't you? 

 

Not at all. Using memorial patches to replace parenting and common sense is less than a stellar idea, in my opinion.  

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

Not at all. Using memorial patches to replace parenting and common sense is less than a stellar idea, in my opinion.  

ksbp.gif

 

 

1 person likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

His number hasn't actually been retired yet. Loria only said "I can't see any Marlin ever wearing that number again" but there has been no official retirement of the number. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Steve Chiasson got drunk and went on his adventure through the windshield glass, the Hurricanes took his number out of circulation but didn't raise a banner for him. Probably the right thing to do for Fernandez as well.

9 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see all the hate for the Marlins having patches celebrating Fernandez, the team didn't know that he was driving that boat drunk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right - but now they do. He isn't worthy of that praise since he killed two people plus himself.  This was avoidable.  He chose to disregard a situation that could have, and did, result in the death of three people.

 

Real life outweighs sport in this case. Or at least it ought to.

6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Ray Lankford said:

What happens in the clubhouse if management comes in and says "Actually, we won't be honoring your beloved teammate anymore?" The new information doesn't  lessen the loss for Gordon and everybody else who actually knew Fernandez and it might even make it tougher. 

 

I've never had the experience personally, but my friend had a friend who killed himself.  My friend shrugs him off now with no reverential feelings.  He did something so incredibly stupid and selfish.  At least that guy didn't take someone with him.

 

11 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

How is this worse than the OT patches? If anything it's now more of the same level, I wouldn't say worse unless you're just saying this because one more person died in this accident than in the OT one? 

 

I'd thought there were four total on the boat, but even so.  He killed himself and his girlfriend while driving down a freeway.

 

Fernandez killed himself and two other people speeding a boat blindly in a dangerous rock-filled area.  That would be like if Taveras drove up a windy mountain road with a blindfold on.

 

4 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

Did you really just compare OJ murdering his wife and her lover in a cold blooded rage to Jose Fernandez?

 

I get where you're coming from to an extent (I mean, BARELY), but, come on now. 

 

I hate to say this, but in the world we live in now, with the knowledge we have now, one can say brain damage due to multiple concussions took away OJ's ability to function as a rational human being.

 

What excuse is there for Fernandez's taking of two lives?

 

On a side note, OJ isn't the best example, because while his death is unlikely to earn him a memorial patch... although I don't feel it out of the realm of possibility, this is kind of a thing.

 

qRSB2oX.jpg

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

I hate to say this, but in the world we live in now, with the knowledge we have now, one can say brain damage due to multiple concussions took away OJ's ability to function as a rational human being.

 

What excuse is there for Fernandez's taking of two lives?

 

Yeah, you should hate to say that because HOLY :censored: is that a miserably bad take. 

4 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

I've never had the experience personally, but my friend had a friend who killed himself.  My friend shrugs him off now with no reverential feelings.  He did something so incredibly stupid and selfish.  At least that guy didn't take someone with him.

55 minutes ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

I hate to say this, but in the world we live in now, with the knowledge we have now, one can say brain damage due to multiple concussions took away OJ's ability to function as a rational human being.

 

How do you say that someone who commits suicide due to depression is unworthy of deeper understanding, but a murderer with head trauma is?

6 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps the sleep deprivation due to bronchitis has gotten me to be too lawyery in my thinking.  Obviously, OJ's actions are inexcusable, but I find it hard to feel Fernandez's were any less inexcusable.

 

And of course, a lot of people who end it are plagued with mental issues.  I'm just saying that a person's close relationship to someone else doesn't mean that grieving is blind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

And of course, a lot of people who end it are plagued with mental issues.  I'm just saying that a person's close relationship to someone else doesn't mean that grieving is blind.

 

You could have said it with a little more tact. Because $hit like this:

 

1 hour ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

I've never had the experience personally, but my friend had a friend who killed himself.  My friend shrugs him off now with no reverential feelings.  He did something so incredibly stupid and selfish.  At least that guy didn't take someone with him.

 

...speaks to the stigma around mental illness, dismissing those who struggle with it and can see no way out as "selfish." End the stigma.

 

So, MLB uniforms 2017?

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

...speaks to the stigma around mental illness, dismissing those who struggle with it and can see no way out as "selfish." End the stigma.

 

I've dealt with those with mental illness in my family, in my congregation, and in... other relationships.  I've seen the bad.  I've made hurried phone calls to make sure someone gets to my girlfriend before she did something hasty because she couldn't take the pressures on her in a low period.

 

I've also had an alcoholic aunt often make attempts on her life because the family wasn't giving her enough attention, the same aunt who gorged herself on diet pills to convince my grandmother she had cancer and kept her son out of school convincing him he was always sick so she could have him to herself.

 

Not everyone who does it is a pitiable innocent suffering from mental illness.  And that story I related was my friend's take.  He knows more about the person's situation and status than I do.  The whole point wasn't to discuss suicide at all.  One of the arguments in favor of the patch was the feelings of the clubhouse, that they'd lost a brother and it didn't matter what he did.  Mourning can be tempered based on circumstance.  That clubhouse can change their feelings based on Fernandez's actions.

 

I'm one of three people who are named after my parents' best friend, who was killed by a public official who was drunk and coked out of his mind as he drove up a one way street.  I watch them suffer to this day.  A few weeks ago, I spent the 32nd anniversary at his mother's house, because despite the fact that she suffers over this loss every day, it's hardest on that day.  There is no excuse for Fernandez's behavior and he does not deserve to have his number retired.  I don't care if you spin it as a cautionary tale.  A retired number is an honor, and he doesn't deserve any honor.

 

11 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

So, MLB uniforms 2017?

 

Looking at the uniforms as I watch the US take on the Dominicans, I thought about the difference in template to the new stuff.  Got me thinking.  When UA takes over, do the panels and sweat tails disappear?  Are they proprietary to Majestic?  Got so tied up in the logo discussion, I didn't think at all about the actual features of the uniform.

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

His number hasn't actually been retired yet. Loria only said "I can't see any Marlin ever wearing that number again" but there has been no official retirement of the number. 

 

So there's still hope that they come to their senses.  Keep it out of circulation for a few years, then quietly reissue it to a highly-touted rookie. 

2 people like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Silent Wind of Doom said:

Looking at the uniforms as I watch the US take on the Dominicans, I thought about the difference in template to the new stuff.  Got me thinking.  When UA takes over, do the panels and sweat tails disappear?  Are they proprietary to Majestic?  Got so tied up in the logo discussion, I didn't think at all about the actual features of the uniform.

 

Yes, I would expect that those construction elements are unique to Majestic.   But they'll almost certainly be replaced by construction elements unique to Under Armour. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now