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3 hours ago, Ark said:

Any time Chief Wahoo is brought up is a good time to talk about this logo

 

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That hat is perfect. It doesn't even need to be paired with the wordmark seen above, as it would go well with the current uniform, or really with any uniform in team history.  

 

If the Indians had kept that C with subsequent uniforms, we'd be talking about It today alongside the Cubs' C and the Red Sox' B.  

 

The phasing out of the Indians' racist logo provides the perfect opportunity to correct this historical error and to bring back this beautiful and unique cap logo.  

logo-diamonds-for-CC-no-photo-sig.png

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6 hours ago, WSU151 said:

 

All of the 2017 Spring Training hats were Diamond Era...I think it's too early to say they are doing away with it.  

 Yeah, it's possible the honeycomb pattern is the test run for the DE replacement.  This is their usual MO: roll out the test materials/patterns for the ASG to see how they are received.

 

I liked the honeycomb.  I think I'd like it more if it wasn't exclusively used for the ASG hats for now.  Hopefully they'll drop a fashion hat in August with the pattern to see how it looks.

Go Astros!

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Go Javelinas!

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6 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

That hat is perfect. It doesn't even need to be paired with the wordmark seen above, as it would go well with the current uniform, or really with any uniform in team history.  

 

If the Indians had kept that C with subsequent uniforms, we'd be talking about It today alongside the Cubs' C and the Red Sox' B.  

 

The phasing out of the Indians' racist logo provides the perfect opportunity to correct this historical error and to bring back this beautiful and unique cap logo.  

People have constantly complained that Cleveland's uniform set is muddled enough already, what with script on the home and block letters on the road and (until this year) another block lettering on the cream jerseys, then with Wahoo or the "I" on the cap or the atrocious block "C" .  I like the crooked "C", but that's just adding another element to the uniform.  I'd stick with Wahoo....

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On 4/4/2017 at 11:51 AM, SilverBullet1929 said:

I think the stance socks look cool for fans, especially kids and teens that now have this fashion craze of wearing high socks with colorful designs on them. For that, those socks are great. I just don't understand why these socks have become official on field gear. The designs are too random and all over the place with no consistency and teams have no limit to the amount of styles they can have in one game. Plus the distortion of the colors and sizes of the elements on the socks drives me crazy. It's bad. 

Yeah MLB needs to put a lid on this. 

 

I'm on record as being anti-Stance. I think their socks suck from the poor designs of random stripes that make no sense for any team to the way they stretch out and darken colors to the unignorable dot logo to the idea that placing a team logo on somebody's ankle is a bad idea to the fact that now players on the same team are wearing wildly different pairs of socks. They're a detriment to the uniform as uniform. 

 

If you want to implement and sell socks to the public, go for it. It looks bad, though, when the designs are all over the place on teammates on the field at the same time. We need the league to start enforcing some uniformity. I'd be perfectly fine if every team designated an official sock design the way the NFL does it. I'd be willing to forgive multiple sock designs per team so long as every player was matching in any given game. 

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17 minutes ago, hjwii said:

People have constantly complained that Cleveland's uniform set is muddled enough already, what with script on the home and block letters on the road and (until this year) another block lettering on the cream jerseys, then with Wahoo or the "I" on the cap or the atrocious block "C" .  I like the crooked "C", but that's just adding another element to the uniform.  I'd stick with Wahoo....

 

No adding of another element.  Make the crooked C the only cap.

logo-diamonds-for-CC-no-photo-sig.png

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We've been through this before. The 1970's Wild Wild West Me Hit Ball Long Way You Pay Me Wampum font is in no way an improvement over Chief Wahoo. It's the same damn thing as far as I'm concerned. And even if none of that were true it doesn't even pass the first basic requirement of a uniform wordmark of looking good. It's an ugly font. 

 

Also, I'm tired of the "transition" away from Chief Wahoo. We've been transitioning for as long as I can remember. Just tell the Indians to drop it and be done with it. People will get over it or they won't, but the longer they hold onto it the more people you allow to think it's an acceptable mascot. 

 

The red Indians block C cap is the worst hat in Major League Baseball. Worse than the Diamondbacks snakeskin hat. 

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1 minute ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

No adding of another element.  Make the crooked C the only cap.

But you still have a script home jersey and a block away jersey, and the crooked C does not take any lines or elements from either one.

Personally, I'm fine with the jerseys being different.  Someone suggested a third jersey with the old runes lettering spelling out "Tribe".  That can introduce the crooked "C" back into the uniform.  Then again, like I said, leave Wahoo alone and keep the current uniform set.  I like it, but I am in the minority....

 

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48 minutes ago, hjwii said:

But you still have a script home jersey and a block away jersey, and the crooked C does not take any lines or elements from either one.

Personally, I'm fine with the jerseys being different.  Someone suggested a third jersey with the old runes lettering spelling out "Tribe".  That can introduce the crooked "C" back into the uniform.  Then again, like I said, leave Wahoo alone and keep the current uniform set.  I like it, but I am in the minority....

 

 

Leaving Wahoo alone is not an option, because it is blatantly offensive.  This is a problem that needs some sort of solution.

 

And it doesn't matter whether the cap logo shares anything with the script.  The cap logo of the Dodgers is made exclusively of straight lines, while their home and road wordmarks are cursive.  Likewise, the monograms on the caps of the Giants, Padres, Royals, and Mets are not derived in any way from their wordmarks.  A cap logo can be part of the wordmark, as are the Phillies' P logo and the classic Mariners trident M logo.  But it certainly doesn't need to be.

The logo on the Indians' I cap is taken from the wordmark script.  That logo's flaw, however, is that it looks like a J when it's on its own.  Also, to have an initial of the nickname doesn't feel right for this team began wearing a C on its cap well over a century ago.
 

 

51 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

We've been through this before. The 1970's Wild Wild West Me Hit Ball Long Way You Pay Me Wampum font is in no way an improvement over Chief Wahoo. It's the same damn thing as far as I'm concerned. And even if none of that were true it doesn't even pass the first basic requirement of a uniform wordmark of looking good. It's an ugly font. 

 

Also, I'm tired of the "transition" away from Chief Wahoo. We've been transitioning for as long as I can remember. Just tell the Indians to drop it and be done with it. People will get over it or they won't, but the longer they hold onto it the more people you allow to think it's an acceptable mascot. 

 

The red Indians block C cap is the worst hat in Major League Baseball. Worse than the Diamondbacks snakeskin hat. 

 

The 1970s wordmark is most emphatically not "the same damn thing" as Wahoo; frankly, to take that viewpoint seriously is extremely difficult. 

 

That wordmark is a creative triumph.  The lettering hints at woodcarving.  It is comparable to fonts which evoke the Greek, Arabic, or Hebrew alphabets, or the strokes of Chinese characters.

 

Anyway, we are discussing not the wordmark but only the crooked C hat, which would be appropriate with the current uniform.  In 1973 the crooked C cap logo replaced the wishbone C, which was identical in shape to the Reds' logo, and which had been worn since the mid-1930s.  If the crooked C had been left in place, it would today have been on the cap for longer than the wishbone C was; and absolutely no one would be characterising it as offensive in any way.  Also, the Wahoo logo would never have experienced the elevation in status that it received in 1986 when it became the cap logo for the first time in team history; and that logo might conceivably have been retired by now.

 

I will agree that the block C is the worst cap logo in the Majors.  It's barely appropriate for a beer league team; for a Major League team it's an embarassment. 
 

 

For so many reasons, the crooked C is the answer.


 

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You have to be able to compromise. Chief Wahoo will eventually (sooner than later) be retired because a lot of people have a problem with him, ok. But if you say a clear falsity like the 1970s look is the same thing, then obviously your logic is flawed and biased and why should we listen to you about retiring Wahoo in the first place?

 

On the other hand, the current Block C logo and the block INDIANS and CLEVELAND wordmarks they currently use are the most boring ones in baseball. If they aren't going to use Wahoo, they at least have to use an interesting logo, and the 70s C is excellent. They already have interesting wordmarks (the 90s/2000s ones) and the INDIANS wordmark from the 70s is welcome to be brought back.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Ark said:

You have to be able to compromise.

 

No I don't.

 

29 minutes ago, Ark said:

Chief Wahoo will eventually (sooner than later) be retired because a lot of people have a problem with him, ok. But if you say a clear falsity like the 1970s look is the same thing, then obviously your logic is flawed and biased and why should we listen to you about retiring Wahoo in the first place?

 

 

It's the lettering that was used to incorrectly represent Native Americans as primitive savages in early to middle 20th century portrayals.  All of that incorrectly appropriated NA imagery is exactly what the Indians need to distance themselves from, big small or in-between. It all comes from the same place of misunderstanding of Native American culture. I fail to see the "falsity" in that statement or the flawed logic. 

 

 

50 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

The 1970s wordmark is most emphatically not "the same damn thing" as Wahoo; frankly, to take that viewpoint seriously is extremely difficult. 

 

That wordmark is a creative triumph.  The lettering hints at woodcarving.  

 

Primitive woodcarving. Just the sort of thing the Indians should be trying to distance themselves from. It's something you'd see on a sign for "Camp Apache" or "Camp Wigwam" next to a Chief's head. In other words, it's what non native Americans pictured as the way primitives Native Americans would go about carving something. 

 

Creative triumph? It's about the lowest hanging fruit idea one could come up with to wordmark a team calls the "Indians". It's so obvious. Aside from that, it doesn't look good. Why would you even want shoddy woodcarving to adorn your uniform? I'll take an elegantly scripted wordmark every single time. 

 

50 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

It is comparable to fonts which evoke the Greek, Arabic, or Hebrew alphabets, or the strokes of Chinese characters.

 

All of which have absolutely nothing to do with Native Americans so if that's the argument then why even use it for Indians once we've lost the connection? 

 

50 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

For so many reasons, the crooked C is the answer.

 

This is opinion, obviously, but the #1 reason why it's not the answer and the reason they haven't gone back to it - it looks like hand scribbled garbage. Stick with the No Possible Way to Offend Anyone Block C, give it a white outline and that's the answer. 

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The answer is simply a plain, blue cap. Can't offend anyone if there's nothing there.  Besides, way back when the Cleveland Baseball Club (don;t want to use that "I" word) wore a plain, blue cap, so it's historically accurate.

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17 minutes ago, hjwii said:

The answer is simply a plain, blue cap. Can't offend anyone if there's nothing there.  Besides, way back when the Cleveland Baseball Club (don;t want to use that "I" word) wore a plain, blue cap, so it's historically accurate.

 

It's not like the charmless block C is the only way to render that letter.  There are plenty of ways.

I've often thought that a cap similar to the one worn by the White Sox just before the current one would be good.


Image result for 1989 white sox cap

 

This would resemble the logo that was used on the uniform (though not on the cap) from 1905 to 1909.

 

 

Click to go back

logo-diamonds-for-CC-no-photo-sig.png

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I honestly have no problems with the block C hat. It is kinda bland, but it is clean and isn't sore on the eyes. I just wish the logo was more linked to Cleveland on a national level. Wahoo obviously has its controversy that I don't want to get into, but when you see a Chief Wahoo hat, it immediately says Cleveland to most people. 

 

When I wear my block C hat here in Tennessee, I've had numerous people wearing Cubs championship gear come up to me and say "Go Cubs!" and put their hand up for a high-five. Not sure if they're rubbing it in my face or if they legitimately think I'm wearing a Cubs hat. And even before the World Series, I'd have random people yell "Go Cubs!" at me when wearing the block C. 

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31 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

It's not like the charmless block C is the only way to render that letter.  There are plenty of ways.

I've often thought that a cap similar to the one worn by the White Sox just before the current one would be good.


Image result for 1989 white sox cap

 

This would resemble the logo that was used on the uniform (though not on the cap) from 1905 to 1909.

 

 

Click to go back

 I'm a huge fan of the script that they use for their home, and recently departed road jerseys. Drop wahoo from the sleeve, and you dont(in my opinion) need to change the jersey at all.

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in fact, I say take the C from that script and use it on the cap.

 

 

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Formerly known as DiePerske

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23 minutes ago, DiePerske said:
56 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

It's not like the charmless block C is the only way to render that letter.  There are plenty of ways.

I've often thought that a cap similar to the one worn by the White Sox just before the current one would be good.


Image result for 1989 white sox cap

 

This would resemble the logo that was used on the uniform (though not on the cap) from 1905 to 1909.

 

 

Click to go back

 I'm a huge fan of the script that they use for their home, and recently departed road jerseys. Drop wahoo from the sleeve, and you dont(in my opinion) need to change the jersey at all.

e8k96wafawhb2gd0wyvmev3b8.png

in fact, I say take the C from that script and use it on the cap.

 

 

Just to be clear: I wasn't advocating changing the jersey.  I was using the 1908 jersey just to show an example of a C that would make a good cap logo, similar to the late-80s Sox cap.

 

The C from the script above would be OK, too, I suppose; though its roundness might mean that it is too close to the Cubs' logo.  

Anyway, there are many ways to draw a C.  This shouldn't be hard.  It is bizarre that a team that has been around for so long has no longstanding initial logo that really identifies it, as @selby56's experience indicates.

logo-diamonds-for-CC-no-photo-sig.png

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Honestly? The Indians look has always sucked IMO. Chief Wahoo was the closest they've ever come to a good look (Just from an aesthetic standpoint), and there are some serious cultural issues with that logo. 

 

 

Honestly? When Wahoo is finally retired, they should just completely redo that look ala the White Sox when they switched to the current colors. They probably don't have to change the name, but change up some of the colors or something. They're going to have to make some huge changes to their look that kinda compromises what their brand has been for so long (and it's a justified change IMO), so they might as well go all the way with it. 

 

Something along these lines would be pretty cool.

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On 11/19/2012 at 7:23 PM, oldschoolvikings said:
She’s still half convinced “Chris Creamer” is a porn site.)
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49 minutes ago, insert name said:

The Brewers have this whole uniform thing backwards. 

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No they don't. Of course the wordmarks are off but by color scheme they're doing it the right way as the primary color scheme is the navy with metallic gold and the navy with yellow scheme is now only for Sunday home games. Tbh they could ruin this any day now but that's how I think they're trying to do it now. And yes, they've done it this way yet again tonight in Cincinnati. 

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Through the first week and a half of the season I've seen the Marlins dropping essentially 100% of the black from the ballpark signage, led boards, scoreboards... And from everything on social media. Even all the logos they've used have had zero black. And it looks great. The colors are popping now. If they're gonna be a tropically colored team then go for it. So far I think it's been pretty noticeable and quite nice. First pic is of the ballpark, the only black is the batters eye and a tire advertisement and notice the scoreboard no longer has a black background, and the only black space in the scoreboard in this pic is where the player pics go so it wouldn't be black during a game. The second pic is from various social media posts and the only black is from player uniforms when players are shown...1492129110140.thumb.jpg.3318f66452ec61627c45b9c472f59260.jpg1492129172952.thumb.jpg.8821e92d5a29d208b94b90227fac8410.jpg

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