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MLB Changes 2017


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2 minutes ago, selby56 said:

Noticed the Indians Mothers Day jersey doesn't have a Wahoo sleeve patch, but a block C sleeve patch.

http://www.mlbshop.com/Cleveland_Indians_Jerseys_Authentic_-_On-Field/Mens_Cleveland_Indians_Francisco_Lindor_Majestic_White_Mothers_Day_Flex_Base_Jersey

 

Men's Cleveland Indians Francisco Lindor Majestic White Mother's Day Flex Base Jersey

That's how it is on all of their special event uniforms for this season (not sure why this mockup from the mothership has the Angels' logo on the All-Star BP jersey, but you get the point).

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1 hour ago, selby56 said:

Noticed the Indians Mothers Day jersey doesn't have a Wahoo sleeve patch, but a block C sleeve patch.

http://www.mlbshop.com/Cleveland_Indians_Jerseys_Authentic_-_On-Field/Mens_Cleveland_Indians_Francisco_Lindor_Majestic_White_Mothers_Day_Flex_Base_Jersey

 

Men's Cleveland Indians Francisco Lindor Majestic White Mother's Day Flex Base Jersey

 

They've using the C for special event stuff for a while now. I think the only time they had him was the first 4th of July hats. It's probably part phasing out, part that people didn't like that too much. TBH I don't what the big deal is whether he's red, blue, pink, camo, stars & stripes, etc. 

 

But I'm one of those people who don't think they should get rid of him. I think a good compromise would be keeping him on the home hats and uniforms but keeping him off the road and alterantes. Especially when that stupid boring block C is the alternative. (at least throw some feathers on there.)

 

 

(Note: This will be my last post on wahoo. Either you want him gone or you don't and these debates usually just go in circles until they turn political.)

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I would just like to point out one thing and then I'm done talking about the Indians.

The name Indians is not offensive and is used not only in a historical context, but also as a modern term.

The Smithsonian museum is called the "National Museum of the American Indian",

I think to force a 100+ year old team to change their name just because of some activists complaints is encouraging the politicization of baseball. Sports are ruined by politics and to keep bringing them into the discussion distracts from legitimate issues within the sports that have been ignored.

There are a multitude of issues within baseball, such as the commissioner no longer being a impartial party, revenue sharing that punishes success, and the awful tragedy that is the Arizona Diamondbacks uniform.

Seriously, what were they thinking?

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So the O's are playing their first Friday road game of the season tonight, and they are wearing a cartoon bird hat with a black crown AND a black bill, instead of the regular O's cap they wear with their black Friday alts.  I think I remember this exact same thing happening last year on their first Friday road game, and I think I even posted about it like I am doing right now, but I forgot if anyone figured out why they are wearing that cap.  I think it's a BP cap.  And if I remember correctly from last year, they only wore it for the first Friday road game and then never wore it again for the rest of the season (during an actual game). Does anyone know what's up with that?  Seems a little odd to specifically wear a BP cap for the first Friday road game of the season, and then never again, no? 

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4 minutes ago, SCalderwood said:

So the O's are playing their first Friday road game of the season tonight, and they are wearing a cartoon bird hat with a black crown AND a black bill, instead of the regular O's cap they wear with their black Friday alts.  I think I remember this exact same thing happening last year on their first Friday road game, and I think I even posted about it like I am doing right now, but I forgot if anyone figured out why they are wearing that cap.  I think it's a BP cap.  And if I remember correctly from last year, they only wore it for the first Friday road game and then never wore it again for the rest of the season (during an actual game). Does anyone know what's up with that?  Seems a little odd to specifically wear a BP cap for the first Friday road game of the season, and then never again, no? 

See my post above. It IS the BP cap, and I believe it was worn at home as well for a game. Odd, yes. Do i wish it would keep going for the whole season, yes.

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Formerly known as DiePerske

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2 minutes ago, DiePerske said:

See my post above. It IS the BP cap, and I believe it was worn at home as well for a game. Odd, yes. Do i wish it would keep going for the whole season, yes.

 

Oh, ok.  I don't remember them ever wearing at home (this season or prior), but I haven't seen all the games.  The O's are usually very consistent with their uniform and cap schedule, which is why I was surprised to see them do this.

 

And I wouldn't want them to wear it too often. Part of the purpose  on their most recent overhaul was to emphasize orange more, which I think is a good thing.  I'd be fine with them just wearing it for Friday night road games or something like that, but I wouldn't want it to sneak in much more than that.

 

And also, are you watching the game right now?  Damn.

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Just now, SCalderwood said:

 

Oh, ok.  I don't remember them ever wearing at home (this season or prior), but I haven't seen all the games.  The O's are usually very consistent with their uniform and cap schedule, which is why I was surprised to see them do this.

 

And I wouldn't want them to wear it too often. Part of the purpose  on their most recent overhaul was to emphasize orange more, which I think is a good thing.  I'd be fine with them just wearing it for Friday night road games or something like that, but I wouldn't want it to sneak in much more than that.

 

And also, are you watching the game right now?  Damn.

Fantastic game going on right now, and I am.

 

I get that, but my judgement is flawed because i love the all black hat so much. I'd be fine with that, keeping it to a Friday road game and having the O's hat at home.

 

Nothing beats, as far as the black jersey is concerned(in my opinion) a shiny white helmet, black jerseys, white pants, and high socks. Beautiful.

 

 

Saying a lot too, with how fantastic the Orioles are in general, uniform wise.

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Formerly known as DiePerske

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25 minutes ago, DiePerske said:

Fantastic game going on right now, and I am.

 

I get that, but my judgement is flawed because i love the all black hat so much. I'd be fine with that, keeping it to a Friday road game and having the O's hat at home.

 

Nothing beats, as far as the black jersey is concerned(in my opinion) a shiny white helmet, black jerseys, white pants, and high socks. Beautiful.

 

 

Saying a lot too, with how fantastic the Orioles are in general, uniform wise.

 

Yeah and my bad about when I was talking about the game, I should have been more clear, I was referring to the home plate umpire getting hit by a foul tip, knocked unconscious for like 10 minutes, and having to be driven off of the field.  But yes, good game other than that!  Haha.

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1 hour ago, Solaris said:

I would just like to point out one thing and then I'm done talking about the Indians.

 

The name Indians is not offensive and is used not only in a historical context, but also as a modern term.

 

The Smithsonian museum is called the "National Museum of the American Indian", I think to force a 100+ year old team to change their name just because of some activists complaints is encouraging the politicization of baseball. Sports are ruined by politics and to keep bringing them into the discussion distracts from legitimate issues within the sports that have been ignored.

 

There are a multitude of issues within baseball, such as the commissioner no longer being a impartial party, revenue sharing that punishes success, and the awful tragedy that is the Arizona Diamondbacks uniform.

Seriously, what were they thinking?

 

Very few people would contend that the Indians' name is what is offensive.  (And no one in the present discussion has done so.)  Despite its origin in error, the term "Indian" has become entrenched; and most Native groups refer to themselves as Indians. Even though no new team could justifiably take that name, Cleveland's use of the name is not the thing that typically comes in for criticism.  The problematic part of the Indians' identity is the awful Wahoo logo.

 

(What is ironic is that the Washington Redskins, a team whose name is offensive, have a logo that is relatively benign.  If the Indians had the Redskins' logo instead of Wahoo, we can imagine that the team would probably be held up as an exemplar of a dignified portrayal of Natives.)

 

What's more, those who defend the racist act of deploying the Wahoo logo absolutely do not get to shut down opposition by claiming that they don't wish the matter to be politicised.  The use of the grotesque Wahoo caricature is in itself a highly political act, in light of the long history of such degrading images being used for the purpose of dehumanising Native people.  

 

Also, while Wahoo or a similar facial caricature had for a long time been a secondary logo of the Indians, sometimes appearing as a sleeve patch on the uniform, the logo was placed on the team's caps for the first time only in 1986. 

 

So the Wahoo cap is not some remnant from back in the mists of time.  Rather, it is a recent creation on the parts of people who should have known better.

logo-diamonds-for-CC-no-photo-sig.png

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2 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

Very few people would contend that the Indians' name is what is offensive.  (And no one in the present discussion has done so.)  Despite its origin in error, the term "Indian" has become entrenched; and most Native groups refer to themselves as Indians. Even though no new team could justifiably take that name, Cleveland's use of the name is not the thing that typically comes in for criticism.  The problematic part of the Indians' identity is the awful Wahoo logo.

 

(What is ironic is that the Washington Redskins, a team whose name is offensive, have a logo that is relatively benign.  If the Indians had the Redskins' logo instead of Wahoo, we can imagine that the team would probably be held up as an exemplar of a dignified portrayal of Natives.)

 

What's more, those who defend the racist act of deploying the Wahoo logo absolutely do not get to shut down opposition by claiming that they don't wish the matter to be politicised.  The use of the grotesque Wahoo caricature is in itself a highly political act, in light of the long history of such degrading images being used for the purpose of dehumanising Native people.  

 

Also, while Wahoo or a similar facial caricature had for a long time been a secondary logo of the Indians, sometimes appearing as a sleeve patch on the uniform, the logo was placed on the team's caps for the first time only in 1986. 

 

So the Wahoo cap is not some remnant from back in the mists of time.  Rather, it is a recent creation on the parts of people who should have known better.

If you have such an issue with Indians being made as a logo, why aren't the Blackhawks being given a hassle about their logo? Oh, that's because it's "dignified". If I remember correctly, the people who were protesting the home opener had signs that read, "We are not characters".

I think people need to move past this issue. What's interesting is that the fans are not being listened to, it's people who have zero interest in baseball and the Cleveland Indians who are telling the organization to change. The logo is iconic among Indians fans and for good reason. It's a distinct logo. When you see it you know immediately what team it is. You can't deny that. If the Indians had not made the playoffs and had not played good ball they would be in a very different position. The fact that they have had recent success gives them more attention. You are calling the logo racist but fail to give me an explanation. It's only racist because of the fact the character is red and smiling, which is the team color and has been around far longer than the character of Wahoo. If you want to start more arguments (on a sports logo board, mind you) by making a paragraph or two of accusatory remarks than I would recommend you find a better use of your time.

Also, the debate might not be about the name now, but as we have already seen the hundreds of mindless news outlets and blog's say, the name will be next.

Lastly, how many actual Indians have you discussed this matter with and polled?

What do they OVERALL think? or have you only seen non-indians and outspoken indians (who may be a minority) complain about this?

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1 hour ago, upperV03 said:

Giants' team-specific socks:

IMG_3511.thumb.JPG.68962217d0cc8ab9aa57724786e1e99c.JPG

Those would be good divorced from the tradition-rich history of baseball uniforms in general, and the Giants' uniforms in particular. I think they look pretty solid as a standalone item.

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