MLB Changes 2017

[mjd77]

44 minutes ago, TVIXX said:

The Brewers will wear the navy yellow glove jerseys for spring training

 

Gee, what a shock.  I'm sure they'll wear them for 75% of the regular season games again too.  I wish that jersey had never been allowed to see the light of day.

[tp49]

2 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

So, while a white-crowned Yankee cap wouldn't be offensive, it still would not be a good choice.

I can swear that the Yankees had a white crowned, blue billed cap that was worn one year in the mid 90's (95 comes to mind but I might be off) and only worn by the coaches and manager.  My cousin bought one but I didn't and now it's one of my whales.  Wish I could find a picture but I remember it vividly.

---------

And that pinstripe billed Yankees ST cap is an aberration.  Looks like hot garbage.  Between the New Era flags on the caps, the bad looking ST jerseys and this pinstripe billed monstrosity, it looks like I'm going to be saving a lot of money this season.

[damnyoutuesday]

1 hour ago, TVIXX said:

The Brewers will wear the navy yellow glove jerseys for spring training

 

I like how the AZ patch matches the color of the gold... wish they would change to these colors full time

[daveindc]

14 minutes ago, tp49 said:

Between the New Era flags on the caps, the bad looking ST jerseys and this pinstripe billed monstrosity, it looks like I'm going to be saving a lot of money this season.

 

Oh please. You'll only see this type of comment on a uniform message board. The average fan will buy whatever the players are wearing. They already come to the park in all types of fashion designs. Why would minor stuff like this stop them from getting authentic gear that are worn on field?

[Ferdinand Cesarano]

1 hour ago, tp49 said:

3 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

So, while a white-crowned Yankee cap wouldn't be offensive, it still would not be a good choice.

 

I can swear that the Yankees had a white crowned, blue billed cap that was worn one year in the mid 90's (95 comes to mind but I might be off) and only worn by the coaches and manager.  My cousin bought one but I didn't and now it's one of my whales.  Wish I could find a picture but I remember it vividly

 

A white-crowned cap was worn in spring training a couple of years in the 1990s by the manager and coaches, but not in the regular season.

 

They used a similar cap at Old-Timers Day on a few recent occasions.  

 

[tp49]

33 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

A white-crowned cap was worn in spring training a couple of years on the 1990s by the manager and coaches, but not in the regular season.

 

They used a similar cap at Old-Timers Day on a few recent occasions.  

 

Yeah, I meant to say it was worn only in Spring Training (thought I did, looks like I didn't.)  I think the cap in the picture above is actually the grey crowned one-off they wore in the 100th Anniversary of Fenway Park game.  

[tp49]

48 minutes ago, daveindc said:

 

Oh please. You'll only see this type of comment on a uniform message board. The average fan will buy whatever the players are wearing. They already come to the park in all types of fashion designs. Why would minor stuff like this stop them from getting authentic gear that are worn on field?

I stand by my comment sports logo message board or not.  Those items don't look good to me as a consumer.  I don't care if the players wear it on the field or not.  To me it looks like crap and as a Yankee fan I'm going to keep the money I might have spent on something like that in my wallet.  I was never a big Steinbrenner fan but the one thing I always admired about him is that he was hard line when it came to the team's aesthetic.  Too bad Hal isn't of the same mindset.  

[Dra---]

16 hours ago, Ray Lankford said:

They've been talking about going back to the PCL jerseys for five years and they've been sucking up to the military for more than 10 years. If they want to go RWB, what are they waiting for?

 

As Fowler recently said, they'll make the next uniform change when they start winning again, around 2020. So whatever they feel most strongly about we'll see then. They want the fans to associate the next uniform with winning, which will, in theory, make it more popular.

 

I also suspect that Fowler likes white and blue, and that's why we've been stuck with it. But if he decides to add a third color, it will be red or yellow before it will be any uniform with brown.

 

Padres fans with an appreciation for our history of brown and who desire a unique identity are SOL. We've already been fed our one bone on Friday nights. It's cliche blue something or other five days of the week for as far as the eye can see.

[cmm]

2 hours ago, tp49 said:

I can swear that the Yankees had a white crowned, blue billed cap that was worn one year in the mid 90's (95 comes to mind but I might be off) and only worn by the coaches and manager.  My cousin bought one but I didn't and now it's one of my whales.  Wish I could find a picture but I remember it vividly.

---------

And that pinstripe billed Yankees ST cap is an aberration.  Looks like hot garbage.  Between the New Era flags on the caps, the bad looking ST jerseys and this pinstripe billed monstrosity, it looks like I'm going to be saving a lot of money this season.

If memory serves, some teams did this for Spring Training for a year or two.

(Sure looks like Steinbrenner had no problem messing with the Yankees hat here! )

[Ray Lankford]

1 hour ago, Dra--- said:

 

As Fowler recently said, they'll make the next uniform change when they start winning again, around 2020. So whatever they feel most strongly about we'll see then. They want the fans to associate the next uniform with winning, which will, in theory, make it more popular.

 

I also suspect that Fowler likes white and blue, and that's why we've been stuck with it. But if he decides to add a third color, it will be red or yellow before it will be any uniform with brown.

 

Padres fans with an appreciation for our history of brown and who desire a unique identity are SOL. We've already been fed our one bone on Friday nights. It's cliche blue something or other five days of the week for as far as the eye can see.

Fowler's expected to step down before 2020 so it's doubtful he has much say in a new redesign then.

 

[IceCap]

17 hours ago, Ray Lankford said:

Also, why is Steinbrenner an arbitrator of the way things should be done? That guy was basically a heel for the majority of his reign. 

He had the good sense to understand how things should be done for the Yankees. Each team is different. 

Yeah, flashy can work for some teams. Gimmicky can work for some teams. Not for the Yankees though. 

 

Also any long-time pro wrestling fan will recognise that the heels are usually right

 

17 hours ago, daveindc said:

 

I agree 100%. We already know the Yankees' rich history in those uniforms, by itself, makes those uniforms stand out. I think we all can pretty much agree that they don't need to change it. However, the whining from some people here about practice jerseys, cap logos, and how the jersey's shirttail looks is just way over-the-top. Suggestions that the Yankees should even resist small league-wide uniform changes shows you some people's mindset. They're some of the same people who think the Yankees should win every year because it's history and tradition that the Yankees always win, and it wouldn't be right if they lose. They're so wrapped up in history and tradition, they can't see MLB in any other way. No other sport league is as backward as MLB, and they wonder why they're losing so many young fans.

 

I wonder what people's reaction would be if they went with a pinstripe crown instead of brim:

 

 

The people complaining about the pinstripe brim would have probably liked this just based on its history. As far as looks, however, why would a pinstripe brim look that much more crazy than a pinstripe crown?

Wow. You're really projecting, aren't you? You really should stop assuming that "well if people like X they must like Y and Z!"

It's an uninformed opinion. Worse than that, it's an uninformed opinion with delusions of authority. 

 

No. I hate the Yankees as a team. I hope they never win a World Series title again, personally. 

That being said...they're a team with a tremendous history that includes one of, if not the, best uniforms in baseball. The fact that I think the Yankees ought to respect that tradition doesn't mean I think they should win the World Series every year.

Furthermore, those two opinions aren't even logically linked. We're  on a forum where we discuss team uniforms. Plenty of people here like uniforms of teams they hate, and hate uniforms of teams they like. For you to assume that people who recognise the history behind the Yankees' look must want them to win every year is absurd. 

 

As for for the pinstriped crown cap? Look, a lot of contrarians here don't want to admit this, but history matters. Nothing exists in a vacuum. Every single uniform, from the Yankees' pinstripes to the Diamondbacks' gradient pants, exists within certain contexts that you CANNOT remove them from. 

So with that in mind? The caps with the pinstriped crowns would be tolerated, and even celebrated, because there's historical context to them. There is no historical context for pinstriped brims before now. So one seems historic and the other gimmicky. You're not right for tossing out history and trying to say the two are the same. You're missing the G-ddamn point. You CAN'T remove history from this or any other uniform discussion. It's one of the many contexts these uniforms exist in. 

 

To circle back to my original point of you foolishly trying to claim that "everyone who likes X must think this about Y" though...

I love the tradition of the Yankees uniforms. And I dislike both the caps with the pinstriped crown and the pinstriped brim. For two different reasons.

I dislike the pinstriped brim because it's gimmicky nonsense the Yankees should be above. 

I dislike the pinstriped crown because I do believe there's a line between "traditional" and "old." The Yankees' uniform is traditional. The pinstriped caps are old. They're a relic from before the aesthetic of what made a baseball uniform was really codified. They're fine as alternates now and then to honour the past, but they have no place in a uniform set this day and age.

[IceCap]

16 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

A pinstripe brim is hardly a "clown suit." It's OK for teams to have a bit of fun every once in a while, and things like this are "a bit of fun." I'm not entirely thrilled about manufacturers' logos or league-wide promotions either, but it's relatively minor. It's hardly the kind of extensive alteration that some of the people here chalk them up to be.

 

Seriously some of the reactions on this board border on this (thanks, TFWiki):

While I appreciate a good TFWiki shout out (I'm on the staff, technically)...

 

The problem is that the line between "practice" and "game" uniforms have blurred significantly in the last five to ten years. Hell, the Astros outright announced that their BP jerseys would be worn as alternates during the regular season back when they unveiled their current uniform set. There are entire MLB-wide promotions dedicated to teams wearing BP caps or other gimmicky caps.

 

See, my normal response would be to go "let BP gear be a place for the Yankees to experiment and try new things." Similarly I should have no problem with teams selling Stars and Stripes/Canada Day gear in team pro shops at games. It's just more variety for the consumer, and that shouldn't be a bad thing so long as the on-field look isn't compromised.

 

The problem though, as I covered in my first paragraph, is that the on-field looks have been compromised. People are posting "some people are so stuffy they can't even handle a pinstriped brim on a BP cap" but come on. Do you honestly believe that those caps will never be worn for a regular season game? Likewise...if someone wants to buy a cap where the Yankees' NY is filled in with an American flag pattern, all the power to them. It's when the team wears it on the field of play for a regular season game that I take issue with it.

 

It's sort of like the problem with coloured pants in the NFL. I was, along with most people, relieved when the Buffalo Bills unveiled their current look. I was apprehensive about the blue pants though. Sure, I couldn't wait to see them paired with the white jerseys. Sure enough, it was a sharp look when it happened. The reason I was apprehensive was that I knew it was only a matter of time before they paired them with the blue jerseys because monochrome is a trend. It happened and it looked terrible.

Again, context matters. The Bills' blue pants, Yankees' pinstriped brimmed caps, or the Stars and Stripes/Canada Day stuff is all fine in context. The problem is that context in the realm of teams deciding when what is worn no longer exists. Stuff isn't "just" for BP or spring training. It's not "just" a fashion cap. These items are, essentially, unofficial alternates intended to be worn during the regular season, and need to be discussed as such.

 

16 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

...and that is not a healthy response to anything. Heck, when people complain about things like NOB's and other things that damn-near every other Big 4 sport does, things have reached critical mass in the pedantic complaining department. I refer to @hockey week for this post (in the context of the Chicago Blackhawks deleting the space between "Black" and "Hawks"):

 

On 2015-06-02 at 0:38 AM, hockey week said:

Wow, is there any kind of change that is good? From how people talk on here, every single change ever made was a massive downgrade, and I can't even chalk this up to nostalgia, just being downright ornery.

It's a space, people. It was nearly 30 years ago officially and around 50 years ago unofficially.

 

Well that's a particularly bad example of your point because the man the Blackhawks team was ultimately named after was named "Black Hawk," so the opposition to the lack of a space is based on a bit more than "they changed it, now it sucks"

 

16 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

That's the way many of us react on the baseball threads, and that highlights a serious problem within some aspects of baseball fandom (i,e, the people who dismiss sabermetrics). The game evolves, and so must our attitudes towards its different facets (i.e. a bit of silliness with uniforms, like a pinstripe-billed cap in Spring bleeping Training - a time for whimsy if ever there was one). Tradition should balance out with fun. Otherwise stagnation ensues.

Like daveindc there, you're making some broad generalisations there that you shouldn't be making.

See, in some ways I'm very much a staunch baseball traditionalist. Not only do I want inter-league play to end entirely, I also want them to go back to separate AL and NL offices, and return to AL and NL umps! I'm also a big fan of the dead-ball era, from a historical perspective.

I also like the DH in the AL though, because it helps give the two leagues their own identities.

I'm also a proponent of video replay, the wildcard playoff format, and the pitch clock! A CLOCK IN BASEBALL? HERESY! It would, in my opinion, make the game better though. So I'm in favour of it.

And sabermetrics? I have no problem with them in and of themselves. I just find them amusing because they're ultimately just mathematical ways of expressing what long-time fans of the game had discussed informally amongst themselves for decades. I don't dismiss them at all! I just find the current culture around them....amusing I guess? I donno.

Point is I'm a weird cat when it comes to baseball. I like my tradition where I feel it makes sense to have it, and I think the game ought to evolve in places where I feel it's lagging. So please don't think I'm coming from a place of stuffiness-to-the-point-of-stagnation.

 

I've already covered my main problem with this particular issue. That this won't just stay an experimental silly thing for spring training because recent trends in MLB have indicated that it will be worn during at least one regular season game. If I felt like this pinstriped brimmed cap would only be worn during ST/BP? I wouldn't have any issue with it. I know that won't be the case though, and so as I said. I'm treating it as an unofficial alternate meant for game day.

 

10 hours ago, cmm said:

If memory serves, some teams did this for Spring Training for a year or two.

(Sure looks like Steinbrenner had no problem messing with the Yankees hat here! )

Back then all of us, including Big Stein, could rest easy knowing MLB wouldn't force teams to wear practice/ST gear on game day

[BBTV]

Regarding the Yankees being heels:  I'd love nothing more than for a manager to come running out of the dugout to distract the umpire as his runner gets tagged out trying to take third, only for the umpire to award him the base because he didn't see the tag.  Or for the lights to go out in a key situation, only for a monster slugger to appear at home plate when they come back on.  Or for players to wear masks, so a speedster could switch places with a slower baserunner without being caught.  When you think about it, pro sports is kinda boring and needs more shenanigans.

 

Regarding the pinstripe caps:

 

I look at the Yankees (and some others) uniforms like suits, which was the standard attire back in the day.  You saw pinstriped suits all the time, but never did you see anyone in a pinstriped suit wearing a pinstriped hat, be it a fedora, top hat, or whatever.  Always solid color (with possibly a band, which I guess could be represented by a contrasting brim.)

 

I'm against pinstriped hats on principal, though aesthetically they're not terrible if done right.  The problem is that they work much better with the old 8 panel caps rather than the current "structured" 6 panel ones.

 

Pinstripes or not, baseball has always had a certain bit of formality / class associated with it.  I view baseball uniforms as suits.  WHat makes a suit?  Matching jacket and pants.  When a team wears an alt, it's akin to wearing a blazer / sportcoat, or even dress pants sans jacket, both of which are casual looks.  That's fine for practice, but not for a real game.  I can't prove that it subconsciously makes the players feel less serious, but as a fan, it always gives me the impression that the team isn't in full game mode when they're wearing colored tops (unless they have matching colored pants, which I'd love for some teams (especially the Giants and white sox (all black) to do.)

 

[Gothamite]

18 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

I'm all for making baseball fun again, but that doesn't mean uniforms have to look like clown suits. 

 

Yeah, I'm not sure why some people keep equating the two. 

[LA_Angels]

9 hours ago, Ray Lankford said:

Fowler's expected to step down before 2020 so it's doubtful he has much say in a new redesign then.

 

I'm more doubtful that the padres will be winning by 2020.

[IceCap]

2 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Regarding the Yankees being heels:  I'd love nothing more than for a manager to come running out of the dugout to distract the umpire as his runner gets tagged out trying to take third, only for the umpire to award him the base because he didn't see the tag.

 

 

"Ratings are high regardless of who plays for the World Series....FANTASY!"

[SFGiants58]

Quote

The problem is that the line between "practice" and "game" uniforms have blurred significantly in the last five to ten years. Hell, the Astros outright announced that their BP jerseys would be worn as alternates during the regular season back when they unveiled their current uniform set. There are entire MLB-wide promotions dedicated to teams wearing BP caps or other gimmicky caps.

 

See, my normal response would be to go "let BP gear be a place for the Yankees to experiment and try new things." Similarly I should have no problem with teams selling Stars and Stripes/Canada Day gear in team pro shops at games. It's just more variety for the consumer, and that shouldn't be a bad thing so long as the on-field look isn't compromised.

 

The problem though, as I covered in my first paragraph, is that the on-field looks have been compromised. People are posting "some people are so stuffy they can't even handle a pinstriped brim on a BP cap" but come on. Do you honestly believe that those caps will never be worn for a regular season game? Likewise...if someone wants to buy a cap where the Yankees' NY is filled in with an American flag pattern, all the power to them. It's when the team wears it on the field of play for a regular season game that I take issue with it.

 

It's sort of like the problem with coloured pants in the NFL. I was, along with most people, relieved when the Buffalo Bills unveiled their current look. I was apprehensive about the blue pants though. Sure, I couldn't wait to see them paired with the white jerseys. Sure enough, it was a sharp look when it happened. The reason I was apprehensive was that I knew it was only a matter of time before they paired them with the blue jerseys because monochrome is a trend. It happened and it looked terrible.

Again, context matters. The Bills' blue pants, Yankees' pinstriped brimmed caps, or the Stars and Stripes/Canada Day stuff is all fine in context. The problem is that context in the realm of teams deciding when what is worn no longer exists. Stuff isn't "just" for BP or spring training. It's not "just" a fashion cap. These items are, essentially, unofficial alternates intended to be worn during the regular season, and need to be discussed as such.

 

 

4

 

@Ice_Cap, I'm pretty sure things like this will easily be worn during a regular season game, and even then I wouldn't have a problem with it. Maybe it "compromises" their uniform, but no team should be above having a little fun every once in a while. It's 162 games a season, and a few dates of not wearing the full uniform shouldn't be a problem. It's not as massive a problem as the Bills' monochrome. Some people are quick to apply "slippery slope" logic in places where it doesn't need to be applied (although I can see the desire to apply it to baseball, given the bits of blurring between practice and regular gear that occasionally happens).

 

As for the second bolded point, it doesn't hurt to experiment every once in a while. Those 162 games allow for a lot of possibilities, and if you're wearing your standard set for 150+ of them (something I wish more teams did), a small alt cap shouldn't be a problem. Granted, this cap isn't exactly the best thing I should use to make my case, but I still see the merit of it. 

 

Quote

Like daveindc there, you're making some broad generalisations there that you shouldn't be making.

See, in some ways I'm very much a staunch baseball traditionalist. Not only do I want inter-league play to end entirely, I also want them to go back to separate AL and NL offices, and return to AL and NL umps! I'm also a big fan of the dead-ball era, from a historical perspective.

I also like the DH in the AL though, because it helps give the two leagues their own identities.

I'm also a proponent of video replay, the wildcard playoff format, and the pitch clock! A CLOCK IN BASEBALL? HERESY! It would, in my opinion, make the game better though. So I'm in favour of it.

And sabermetrics? I have no problem with them in and of themselves. I just find them amusing because they're ultimately just mathematical ways of expressing what long-time fans of the game had discussed informally amongst themselves for decades. I don't dismiss them at all! I just find the current culture around them....amusing I guess? I donno.

Point is I'm a weird cat when it comes to baseball. I like my tradition where I feel it makes sense to have it, and I think the game ought to evolve in places where I feel it's lagging. So please don't think I'm coming from a place of stuffiness-to-the-point-of-stagnation.

 

I've already covered my main problem with this particular issue. That this won't just stay an experimental silly thing for spring training because recent trends in MLB have indicated that it will be worn during at least one regular season game. If I felt like this pinstriped brimmed cap would only be worn during ST/BP? I wouldn't have any issue with it. I know that won't be the case though, and so as I said. I'm treating it as an unofficial alternate meant for game day.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I was kind of guilty of generalizing and using too much invective. I too am a bit of an odd mix. I like integrated umpire crews, video replay, and the pitch clock; yet I prefer the two division format, the older model of interleague (all at once, not spread out - abandoning it altogether is just silly and too traditionalist for my tastes), and for everybody to go high-cuffed (with full socks, not stirrups, as stirrups were a stop-gap until safer dyes came around).

 

I'm not even all gung-ho about sabermetrics, either. I think they're excellent when they're balanced with traditional stats (i.e. walks/hits per innings pitched, on-base percentage, and batting average with runners in scoring position). Ultimately, they're extra quantifiers for obvious things (such as Mike Trout being the best overall player in the American League and Tim Raines being a deserving Hall of Famer). 

 

My "stagnation" comment comes from my distaste for those who despise any change in the game. The people who are anti-NOB, anti-alternates of any kind, and anti-scheduling/playoff alterations aren't my cup of tea. I get where they're coming from, but they simply seem stuffy and prone to the "ruined forever" and "kiddie stuff" logic. That's why I quoted that specific Hockey Week post, even if I don't agree with the example he used. While I'm not too keen on manufacturers' logos in easily seen places, I understand why they're there and I'm happy that they're as limited as they are. As long as it's not straight-up ads, I'm largely OK with it. I hardly manufacturers' logos as the absolute dealbreaker that some do. Besides they're easy enough to take off of authentics (seam-rippers do the job just fine).

 

I'm well aware that it won't stay a ST/BP cap, but even then, the Yankees should be commended for relatively staunch adherence to their regular set. Nobody should be above an alternate every so often, within limits (i.e. 150+ games of regular home and road uniforms, as the Yankees do). Sports are supposed to be casual fun, and a little silliness every once in a while doesn't hurt that. No team should be above it, and no team should completely give in to it. It's when it gets to be 162 games of gimmickry that it becomes irksome, i.e. the Diamondbacks (I get what they wanted to do, but they should have tested it out more before going ahead with it - fitting for that team). 

 

I apologize for my generalizations, but I still hold my defense for that cap's place. I don't even like it all that much (a pinstriped crown would be better), but I feel like there needs to be some defense of it. At the very least, it leads to some interesting discussions and encourages people to defend their aesthetic preferences, something I always like to hear.

 

Also, Ice_Cap, I'm glad you appreciate TFWiki. It's what endeared me to the Transformers fanbase, as I like it when a group of fans has a dedication to accurate information/research and a sense of humor about their hobby. It's something all should inspire all fandoms. 

[Rj0498]

15 hours ago, mjd77 said:

 

Gee, what a shock.  I'm sure they'll wear them for 75% of the regular season games again too.  I wish that jersey had never been allowed to see the light of day.

That's one thing I have noticed with them same with the Marlins, they have an odd aversion to their road jerseys, despite them looking very nice

[ScubaSteve]

3 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Yeah, I'm not sure why some people keep equating the two. 

 

Because pinstripes on a brim in spring training aren't clown suits. That's blowing it completely out of proportion

[Gothamite]

But how is a consistent and coherent uniform aesthetic "not fun"?