MLB Hotstove 2016-17

[BBTV]

I just googled who that guy was, and thought "well, if there really isn't anyone to vote for, then leave it blank".  

 

Then, I looked at the candidate list.

 

Let's take PED guys out of it (that's a separate discussion.  I'd probably put them in, but let's exclude them for now.)

 

I think Ivan Rodriguez is a HOFer.  Year in and year out, dude was considered the standard for catchers.  If you're consistently the best at your position for that long of a period of time, that seems like a HOF to me.

 

Other than that, I really don't see any no-brainers.

 

Jeff Bagwell feels like a HOFer, but didn't play on to many good teams in too many pressure situations, and career numbers aren't what I thought they were.  I couldn't argue if he got in, and I think he probably will, but it's not a slam dunk.  I actually met him during his awesome rookie year and got his autograph on a ball.

 

Jeff Kent is another that feels like a HOFer, but I didn't see him enough to really know for sure.  I just know that I read about him and heard his name on SC for a long time and it just seemed like he was the top 2b for a while.  There's just something about 2b though that to me isn't as valuable as other positions.  I don't think I'd argue if he got in.

 

Tim Rains - did he really have that much of an impact?  I remember collecting baseball cards as a kid, and everybody wanted Rains cards.  When he went to the White Sox, it was a big deal.  But looking back, did any of his teams accomplish anything with him being a key part?  For around 6 or 7 years he was one of the most feared baserunners (along with Ricky and Coleman - but to me it just doesn't seem HOF worthy.  

 

Schilling - I once said that he should be in, based on how he consistantly rose to the occasion in the playoffs, signed with the Red Sox just to break the curse, then actually did it.  There's more than career stats to the HOF.  THe last word, after all, is "fame".  He definitely had an impact on the game - a bigger impact than a lot of guys with much better stats.  I knew he was a kook, but now that we've learned more about him over the last few years, I don't want anything good to happen to him.  Screw him.

 

The closers aren't HOFers.  Hoffman and LAS just didn't seem to be "dominant" closers - just kinda did it forever.  There were guys that you really didn't want to face, and then there were guys who were really good, but not "scary".  I don't think they're in.

 

Billy Wagner LOL was one of those "scary" guys - for a couple of seasons.  Unfortunately he is a total head case and fizzled out.  

 

Pat Burrell is definitely a HOFer - the poon chasing HOF. Dude  wrecked more marriages and banged more hot POA in old city Phila. than anyone in history, with the possible exception of Ben Franklin.  Yeah, I'm just jealous.

 

 

[2001mark]

Ppl now making the case for the likes of Bonds & Clemens since Bud Selig is now going in.

 

How does Ivan Rodriguez escape PED chatter when guy was outed by Canseco & shrunk in size following the Mitchell Report.  

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, 2001mark said:

How does Ivan Rodriguez escape PED chatter when guy was outed by Canseco & shrunk in size following the Mitchell Report.  

 

I either didn't know or forgot about that.  In that case, it's totally valid for that guy to submit a blank ballot.  You need to vote assuming that everyone you're voting for is going to get in.  If there's anyone on your ballot that you're not sure about, take 'em off.

[FGM13]

Bonds, Clemens, Raines, Bagwell, Pudge, Mussina, and as much as I hate the thought because as a human being he's a scumbag, Schilling. They're my picks for the HOF. 

[Rj0498]

12 hours ago, FGM13 said:

Bonds, Clemens, Raines, Bagwell, Pudge, Mussina, and as much as I hate the thought because as a human being he's a scumbag, Schilling. They're my picks for the HOF. 

I agree with all of these choices. I will not go into a huge spiel over why I think keeping players who use PEDs out of the hall is kind of dumb but, I will say they are very deserving

[TBGKon]

Colby Rasmus to the Rays, 1 year deal.

 

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/18439684/colby-rasmus-sign-tampa-bay-rays

[2001mark]

Obama is hosting the WS champion Cubs next week, 4 days before leaving office.

That's a pretty f'n sweet headline, & I can barely stand the Cubs.

[Rj0498]

13 hours ago, 2001mark said:

Obama is hosting the WS champion Cubs next week, 4 days before leaving office.

That's a pretty f'n sweet headline, & I can barely stand the Cubs.

Whats funny is that Obama happens to be a White Sox fan But, I don't know maybe he is happy a championship is coming to Chicago again

[FGM13]

Blue Jays sign an old, declining, slightly injury prone slugger DH to a 2 year 37 million dollar contract to play right field every day. Ho hum.

[HedleyLamarr]

Bagwell, Raines, Pudge got elected to the Hall of Fame. 

 

Hoffman was 5 votes short, Vladimir Guerrero 15 short.  Bonds and Clemens over 50% of the votes, Edgar just over 58%, Sosa at 8%.  Posada and Magglio Ordonez didn't get enough votes to stay on the ballot.

[bosrs1]

12 minutes ago, HedleyLamarr said:

Bagwell, Raines, Pudge got elected to the Hall of Fame. 

 

Hoffman was 5 votes short, Vladimir Guerrero 15 short.  Bonds and Clemens over 50% of the votes, Edgar just over 58%, Sosa at 8%.  Posada and Magglio Ordonez didn't get enough votes to stay on the ballot.

 

Looks good for Hoffman to get in next year if his numbers went up that much year over year. I mean he was only a couple of those empty ballots some protesting wankers submit away from getting in.

[goalieboy82]

if Bonds and Clemens did not have any allegations of using steroids, they would have been in by now.

[goalieboy82]

Just now, goalieboy82 said:

if Bonds and Clemens did not have any allegations of using steroids, they would have been in by now.

i also think Pete Rose will be in one day (maybe after he dies).  

 

[BBTV]

3 hours ago, goalieboy82 said:

if Bonds and Clemens did not have any allegations of using steroids, they would have been in by now.

 

Hot take.

[2001mark]

lols Posada.  That sincerely makes my week.

Nice to see Raines forever now a HOFer.  Vlad will get in next year, as an Angel I guess.  I could see Hoffman waiting another 4-5yrs.  Edgar would get my vote, but writers gonna write.  Mussina I don't care either way.

[FiddySicks]

 

He's scum, but he's also not wrong. 

[2001mark]

11 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

 

He's scum, but he's also not wrong. 

 

[Lights Out]

On 1/9/2017 at 7:17 PM, BringBackTheVet said:

Tim Rains - did he really have that much of an impact?  I remember collecting baseball cards as a kid, and everybody wanted Rains cards.  When he went to the White Sox, it was a big deal.  But looking back, did any of his teams accomplish anything with him being a key part?  For around 6 or 7 years he was one of the most feared baserunners (along with Ricky and Coleman - but to me it just doesn't seem HOF worthy. 

 

As an Expos fan, I'm admittedly biased here. But Raines didn't just "make an impact" - it's actually a travesty he even had to wait this long to get in, especially considering that a worse version of him (Lou Brock) got in on the first ballot with almost 80% of the vote.

 

In addition to being a monster on the basepaths, Raines also had very few peers when it came to getting on base to begin with. He's one of only four post-WWII Hall of Famers with at least 4,000 at-bats in the leadoff spot and an OBP of .385 or better. He also led the entire NL in singles, doubles, triples and walks from 1981 to 1987. Only 18 players in MLB history have at least 2600 hits and 1300 walks, and until this year, only two of them weren't in the Hall. One of them was Pete Rose, who's banned for life; the other one was Raines.

 

If that doesn't convince you, consider this: the two players that Raines always inevitably gets compared to are Rickey Henderson and Tony Gwynn (both of whom were first-ballot Hall of Famers). Henderson easily laps Raines in total career stolen bases, but Raines has the upper hand in efficiency on the basepaths. Raines is the all-time leader in stolen-base percentage (84.7%) among players with at least 400 attempts. Rickey would have to unretire and successfully steal 448 bases in a row to surpass Raines' efficiency. Raines also stole at least 70 bases in six consecutive seasons between 1981 and 1986 - a feat that no other player, not even Rickey, has ever done. As for Gwynn, while he got more hits and had a higher career batting average than Raines, their career OBPs were essentially equal and Raines actually reached base more often than Gwynn did. Raines also scored almost 200 more career runs than Gwynn did. Back before sabremetrics were a thing, old-school sportswriters and fans were under the impression that he was "Rickey Lite" or "Diet Gwynn." Through the benefit of better metrics, we now know that Raines was just as good in his prime as those two guys were - even better than them in some ways.

 

As far as team success goes, keep in mind that Raines' prime predates the wildcard era, and the Expos were stuck in a stacked NL East in a stretch where the Phillies, Mets and Cardinals all won championships. Many of the teams Raines was on in Montreal would have made the playoffs in today's league but didn't under the rules of his era. That limited the chances he had to make an impact in October during his prime. Later on in his career, he helped lead the White Sox to the ALCS and was a key role player (albeit limited by injuries) for two championship teams with the Yankees.

 

Raines is the perfect example of why the argument that you're somehow less deserving if you don't get inducted on your first few ballots is bull :censored:. Raines is a no-brainer HOFer who had to wait for a decade for reasons that were outside of his control: the arbitrary Rule of Ten creating a logjam of deserving players, the Expos not getting enough attention from the American media because they played in Montreal, and crotchety old sportswriters with outdated attitudes who didn't properly value walks or baserunning.

[smzimbabwe]

I'm of the belief that if you don't get in the first time, you shouldn't be in. Do your stats change? What makes someone a hall of fame 10 years after he retired rather than 5 years? I'm pretty much anti-hall of fame for various reasons, this is one of them.

[Lights Out]

16 minutes ago, smzimbabwe said:

I'm of the belief that if you don't get in the first time, you shouldn't be in. Do your stats change? What makes someone a hall of fame 10 years after he retired rather than 5 years? I'm pretty much anti-hall of fame for various reasons, this is one of them.

Raines' production isn't what changed. The media and fans' understanding of his production is what changed. Between Raines' first ballot appearance and his induction, a critical mass of voters finally realized that walks and steals are valuable, even if they don't pop off the stat sheet quite as much as DINGERZZZ and RIBBIES do.

 

Raines and Vlad Guerrero (who inexplicably didn't get in first-ballot this year) are why you don't kick players off after their first time on the ballot.