2017 NASCAR Season Thread

[dfwabel]

7 minutes ago, mr.nascar13 said:

 

 

 

And finally, going back to the Hendrick situation, the only reason I say William Byron should be the replacement for Kasey Kahne is because he is more likely to bring in sponsorship. At the moment, he's got Liberty University following him from Kyle Busch's truck team to JR Motorsports and sponsoring a decent amount of races, which will be needed, as Farmers Insurance will not be back with the 5 team next year along with Great Clips. That opens 22 races out of 36-38 races, with the others being sponsored by (assumed) LiftMaster, Quaker State, maybe Pepsi/Mountain Dew, etc. Byron bringing Liberty and, potentially, more sponsorship from Axalta, is possible. 

Hendrick moved to Valvoline in 2014 and the contract goes through this year.

So a move to back to Quaker State, a Shell brand (SOPUS), is wasteful on Shell's part.

[LAWeaver]

18 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

Hendrick moved to Valvoline in 2014 and the contract goes through this year.

So a move to back to Quaker State, a Shell brand (SOPUS), is wasteful on Shell's part.

Ah, my mistake. I remember Quaker State sponsoring them a few years ago and couldn't remember if they were still on or not.

[dfwabel]

14 minutes ago, mr.nascar13 said:

Ah, my mistake. I remember Quaker State sponsoring them a few years ago and couldn't remember if they were still on or not.

It could occur, but with SOPUS, Shell's US subsidiary, putting $$$ within Team Penske and the Pennzoil brand across all racing forms, it's unlikely. Shell sponsors Penske and Scuderia Ferrari.

Again, the Hendrick/Valvoline deal hasn't been renewed.

 

As for Liberty, they make a ton of $$$ off their online program, but some of that is going to football as they move to FBS in '18. They're not going to necessarily scale their NASCAR sponsorship budget to the Cup Series.

[stumpygremlin]

I was thinking last night and wondering something, and I couldn't come up with an answer. So I figured I'd throw it up here for discussion.

 

How much does car and team matter versus driver? In other words, how good are the drivers that typically run mid-pack?

 

To elaborate, there are guys that typically run in the second half of the field and rarely go any higher -- like Cole Whitt, Matt DiBenedetto, Michael McDowell, Chris Buescher, Gray Gaulding, Landon Cassill and the like. Those guys are on underfunded teams that don't have the cars to win. How good are the drivers of those teams? If you were to put those guys in Hendrick or JGR or Penske or Ganassi cars, would they be near the top of the standings? Further, how would guys like Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Larson, Martin Truex, and such fare if they were forced to be on the small-time teams.

 

I couldn't think of an answer, so maybe the more educated NASCAR guys on here can?

[dfwabel]

You're failing to look at the difference.

 

Chad Knaus and his attention to detail has been the difference maker for the majority of the last decade. Hendrick power is the same, the people become the difference.

 

His ability to communicate with Jimmie and work with the crew is why they dominate.

 

If the 88 had Chad for a year, he would've raced in Homestead for the title.

[stumpygremlin]

23 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

You're failing to look at the difference.

 

Chad Knaus and his attention to detail has been the difference maker for the majority of the last decade. Hendrick power is the same, the people become the difference.

 

His ability to communicate with Jimmie and work with the crew is why they dominate.

 

If the 88 had Chad for a year, he would've raced in Homestead for the title.

I'm trying to compare across organizations, though. I've got a gut feeling that Chad Knaus running the 32 or the 33 team wouldn't result in them being that much better, and that's because of the lack of funds. So again I posit, would a guy like Michael McDowell or Matt DiBenedetto be at or near Johnson's level if they were driving the 48?

[dfwabel]

15 minutes ago, stumpygremlin said:

I'm trying to compare across organizations, though. I've got a gut feeling that Chad Knaus running the 32 or the 33 team wouldn't result in them being that much better, and that's because of the lack of funds. So again I posit, would a guy like Michael McDowell or Matt DiBenedetto be at or near Johnson's level if they were driving the 48?

Put Bootie Barker with the 48 and Johnson may win two titles via talent and engine power. PEOPLE STILL MATTER.

 

Pit crews are fired and move to another car from time to time. During the 2010 Chase, Hendrick exchanged the 24's crew to the 48 and won the title. Knaus was the constant.

 

[dont care]

You just need to look at Kurt Busch's time with Phoenix racing, sure he wasn't winning but he made the car a consistent top 10 car that normally ran mid pack at best before he got there. You then have plenty of cases where teams bring guys from a underfunded team thinking they will perform better in better equipment and they fail most of the time (David Gilliland is an example) yes they can perform better with better equipment but there is a reason why the underfunded teams have the drivers they have. They either can't perform to the highest level or can't bring in the sponsorship money that it is worth bringing them in.

[stumpygremlin]

5 hours ago, dont care said:

You just need to look at Kurt Busch's time with Phoenix racing, sure he wasn't winning but he made the car a consistent top 10 car that normally ran mid pack at best before he got there. You then have plenty of cases where teams bring guys from a underfunded team thinking they will perform better in better equipment and they fail most of the time (David Gilliland is an example) yes they can perform better with better equipment but there is a reason why the underfunded teams have the drivers they have. They either can't perform to the highest level or can't bring in the sponsorship money that it is worth bringing them in.

That makes some sense. I get that Kurt Busch did decently well for his 3/4 of a year at Phoenix, but had a lot of DNF's. He then helped Furniture Row become relevant, probably setting the stage for Martin Truex's dominance with that team. 

 

The ultimate question I have isn't whether Kurt Busch is a good driver. We know he is. It's whether Michael McDowell or Matt DiBenedetto or Cole Whitt or others like them are good drivers. Alex Bowman was non-competitive for BK Racing, but then ran top tens for Hendrick and almost won a race for them. Would that sort of thing happen for those other guys?

[DCarp1231]

Darrell (Bubba) Wallace Jr will drive the 43 at Pocono this weekend.

[LAWeaver]

15 minutes ago, DNAsports said:

Darrell (Bubba) Wallace Jr will drive the 43 at Pocono this weekend.

This is great for him this weekend, but the bad news is Roush Fenway Racing will be suspending the #6 Xfinity Series team after this weekend's race at Pocono.

[LAWeaver]

Obviously some drivers are better than others, plain and simple.

 

Equipment also helps too. Furniture Row was racing Childress-powered race cars up until 2016. In 2015, they ran pretty decent with Martin Truex Jr., scoring a win and finishing in the top four In points. 2016, things improved dramatically, with Truex dominating races ever since running in Joe Gibbs powered race cars. 

 

I guess my answer would be it depends, which is a terrible answer, but it's the truth. Not every driver is the same, and not every car is the same, even ones in the same organization. They all have different people under the hoods, making things better by fractions of an inch or second.

 

Heck, it even depends on the track. That's why you see AJ Allmendinger do better on road courses and Martinsville than, say, Matt Kenseth, who is better on intermediate tracks. Or like David Ragan, someone who would fall into your "mid pack" category, who runs better at Daytona and Talladega than Landon Cassill. 

 

In NASCAR, there's simply too many variables to say what can impact a team. While money is a big factor, drivers do help as well. Put a big-name driver in a lower-tier team and they won't be lower-tierfor much longer.

[DCarp1231]

1 hour ago, mr.nascar13 said:

This is great for him this weekend, but the bad news is Roush Fenway Racing will be suspending the #6 Xfinity Series team after this weekend's race at Pocono.

Are they suspending the team because of sponsorship issues?

[LAWeaver]

19 minutes ago, DNAsports said:

Are they suspending the team because of sponsorship issues?

I'm pretty confident that's the only reason it's being shut down. Prior to the season, they only had sponsorship guaranteed through Charlotte. Obviously, not much changed since then other than a slew of 6th-place finishes and bad luck. 

[DCarp1231]

Speaking of sponsorships, once Jr retires will all of his sponsors stay with the 88? The one I could see leaving is Nationwide considering how heavily tied together they are with the Earnhardt family.

[stumpygremlin]

2 hours ago, DNAsports said:

Darrell (Bubba) Wallace Jr will drive the 43 at Pocono this weekend.

Good for him. I'd like to see him do well. I think he's either close to being, or already is, ready to compete at the top flight. I'll root for him.

[rvrdgsfn]

3 hours ago, mr.nascar13 said:

I'm pretty confident that's the only reason it's being shut down. Prior to the season, they only had sponsorship guaranteed through Charlotte. Obviously, not much changed since then other than a slew of 6th-place finishes and bad luck. 

 

That's a bummer, especially when he's 4th in points. However, as a Virginia native, I'm happy to see Bubba finally get up to MENCS!

 

3 hours ago, DNAsports said:

Speaking of sponsorships, once Jr retires will all of his sponsors stay with the 88? The one I could see leaving is Nationwide considering how heavily tied together they are with the Earnhardt family.

I think Axalta will go to Byron once he gets up. Nationwide could go elsewhere, they could stay with Bowman (if that's who gets it) or it could go to someone like Chase Elliott or they could leave altogether.

[raysox]

I think two good example of mid tier drivers in good rides are Dakoda Armstrong in Kyle Busch's Xfinity ride last year. You could argue that both were at non-double header weekends, but Armstrong ran in the low teens all year on average, then at Iowa with Gibbs equipment, he finished 5th. 

There's definitely money and sponsor factors to why guys like Gase and Gaulding run in Cup, but you see mid tier guys advance when they run above average for the team. Not go out to win, but maybe finish 5 spots better every race than a replacement driver.

[IceCap]

On 2017-06-05 at 8:58 AM, stumpygremlin said:

I was thinking last night and wondering something, and I couldn't come up with an answer. So I figured I'd throw it up here for discussion.

 

How much does car and team matter versus driver? In other words, how good are the drivers that typically run mid-pack?

 

To elaborate, there are guys that typically run in the second half of the field and rarely go any higher -- like Cole Whitt, Matt DiBenedetto, Michael McDowell, Chris Buescher, Gray Gaulding, Landon Cassill and the like. Those guys are on underfunded teams that don't have the cars to win. How good are the drivers of those teams? If you were to put those guys in Hendrick or JGR or Penske or Ganassi cars, would they be near the top of the standings? Further, how would guys like Jimmie Johnson, Kyle Larson, Martin Truex, and such fare if they were forced to be on the small-time teams.

 

I couldn't think of an answer, so maybe the more educated NASCAR guys on here can?

There's no need for separate NASCAR threads. I've merged the newer one into the 2017 Season thread.

[stumpygremlin]

6 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

There's no need for separate NASCAR threads. I've merged the newer one into the 2017 Season thread.

OK Thanks. I separated them because my question wasn't a 2017 question, per se, but more of a general one. My bad for committing a faux pas.