Bmac

NHL 2017-18

Recommended Posts

44 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

 

Cotton ball or not, the point stands and is valid. The fuzzy details on the bison are too small and indecisive. It looks like the bison was intended to be a large stand-alone mark and was scaled down to be plopped into the circle. That’s objectively not the best way to do it.

 

As much as the classic logo is clearly of 60s/70s ilk, John’s was of quintessential 90s/00s aesthetic, which, on the whole, sacrificed clarity for dimension and depth. I think these days we’re beginning to see a better fusion of clarity, depth, and quality of illustration.

 

The details might look slightly fuzzy on the small application I posted but not enough to provide any confusion over what's being depicted.  Compared to the "lets outline everything in silver" treatment of the current primary, it looks positively sharp.  I think people are forgetting that the most important application of a hockey logo (or it should be anyways) is in the form of a large, embroidered crest on the front of a jersey.  The subtle grey details on Slabyk's logo would work beautifully on that medium, adding some much needed texture and definition.  Besides, nobody complains about the cool little details of the Blackhawks logo getting lost on smaller applications.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

Well the Sabres didn’t use their classic logo on their latest WC sweater. This is from the news article from the mothership...

 

XdD7Dud.jpg

 

The Sabres made a series of tweaks to the old buffalo and crossed sabres. Each tweak being insignificant on its own but, when taken together, really clean up the sloppy and dated elements of the logo. I dare say the tweaked mark- minus the NY mark- would be a perfect update for the Sabres’ full-time look.

 

You are absolutely right.  I'm agnostic about the "NY", but the rest of it is a fantastic upgrade.  Arizona Cardinals-level fantastic.  Would make a great primary for the Sabres.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

Well the Sabres didn’t use their classic logo on their latest WC sweater. This is from the news article from the mothership...

 

XdD7Dud.jpg

 

The Sabres made a series of tweaks to the old buffalo and crossed sabres. Each tweak being insignificant on its own but, when taken together, really clean up the sloppy and dated elements of the logo. I dare say the tweaked mark- minus the NY mark- would be a perfect update for the Sabres’ full-time look.


So they got rid of whatever the blue thing under the horn is supposed to be and thinned the motion lines.  It still looks ridiculously dated.
 

Quote

The classic logo has all the right elements in place. It just needed to be touched up a bit. They did that, and it looks much better. So I say drop the "NY" that's only there because the WC is in NYC and use it as the full-time mark.


 The current primary managed to improve the appearance of the sword handles (if nothing else) but no such effort has been made here.  The "classic" logo needs more than a nip-and-tuck.  It needs a modernization.

TpEXrk3.png
 

Quote

 

His Sabres work was, as andrew pointed out, a product of the late 1990s/early 2000s. I loved it at the time, but then again I was a teenager in the late 90s/early 2000s. Looking back? It would have fit in with the sports aesthetic zeitgeist at the time but it would have aged poorly.

What the Sabres did with the current WC sweater is ideal, I think.   

 


The style of John's logo doesn't look any more detailed than the recent efforts of the Florida Panthers or Vegas Golden Knights.  The only thing that would have aged is the duller gold but that's an easy fix.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, andrewharrington said:

For what it’s worth, I don’t think the Rangers ever wore a lighter blue. 

 

>snip<

 

Illustrations are one thing, but many early photos show the Rangers blue being very light in value:

1928Rangers.jpg

 

I think these photos were taken with a filter to increase the contrast between the red and royal blue. Sans filter, the two colors look nearly identical in a monochromatic image because their values are so close. 

 

>snip<

 

Conclusion: the Rangers have worn royal blue since their inception.

 

B)

 

I think you are absolutely right.  FWIW, this is why I don't love pairing royal blue and red together.  Their gray values are so close that black-and-white photographers had to go crazy with filters in an attempt to distinguish them. That often meant that the blue appears ridiculously light, such as in this 1939 photo of two Chicago Cubs.

 

gabby-h.-and-billy-h._cropped.jpg

 

Looking at that photo, you'd be forgiven for thinking that the Cubs wore a red cap.  Or perhaps that they used a light blue.  But a look at this jersey from the previous year indicates that their blue has always been what I would call a dark royal, even Dodger Blue:

 

B8xxq_ACIAAtOjE.jpgB8xxq_GCcAICvZB.jpg

 

So for all we know the Rangers' original blue was darker than the royal they wear now.

 

I'd love to hear what else you learned in your research for this project.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Morgo said:

 

The details might look slightly fuzzy on the small application I posted but not enough to provide any confusion over what's being depicted.  Compared to the "lets outline everything in silver" treatment of the current primary, it looks positively sharp.  I think people are forgetting that the most important application of a hockey logo (or it should be anyways) is in the form of a large, embroidered crest on the front of a jersey.  The subtle grey details on Slabyk's logo would work beautifully on that medium, adding some much needed texture and definition.  Besides, nobody complains about the cool little details of the Blackhawks logo getting lost on smaller applications.

 

no, i dont think there's confusion to the end of "i don't know that's a buffalo" but there is a real craftsmanship issue there. its not well rendered at all, and even though its primary application is a large one on the front of a sweater, its still a logo and it needs to shrink down and be flexible enough to work at smaller sizes. it's a fine enough take on the logo, but thats not the quality i expect from a professional sports team

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

I think you are absolutely right.  FWIW, this is why I don't love pairing royal blue and red together.  Their gray values are so close that black-and-white photographers had to go crazy with filters in an attempt to distinguish them. That often meant that the blue appears ridiculously light, such as in this 1939 photo of two Chicago Cubs.

 

gabby-h.-and-billy-h._cropped.jpg

 

Looking at that photo, you'd be forgiven for thinking that the Cubs wore a red cap.  Or perhaps that they used a light blue.  But a look at this jersey from the previous year indicates that their blue has always been what I would call a dark royal, even Dodger Blue:

 

B8xxq_ACIAAtOjE.jpgB8xxq_GCcAICvZB.jpg

 

So for all we know the Rangers' original blue was darker than the royal they wear now.

 

I'd love to hear what else you learned in your research for this project.

 

Those were the two biggest things that challenge the accepted gospel of NHL uniform history. Other than that, mostly uncovered a bunch of great logos and typographic specimens from old jerseys. Fun rabbit hole for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Morgo said:

So they got rid of whatever the blue thing under the horn is supposed to be and thinned the motion lines

They did more than that. 

They added a bit of extra definition to the areas where the buffalo’s legs meet the body. The two most notable areas for me would be the space between the two back legs and the front left leg. 

The ever-so-slight revisions give the buffalo a bit more definition and most certainly lessen the “white blob” effect. 

 

It’s also worth noting that the sabre hilts were given a once-over too. The ends are more round and less bloob-like.

 

2 hours ago, Morgo said:

It still looks ridiculously dated.

Not really, no. The thing that dated the old Sabres logo was the sloppyness of the original design. It was never as bad as you made it out to be, but it was always there. 

Now though? All major elements of the logo have been touched up. It’s an undeniable improvement. In my opinion? There’s nothing holding this revised logo back. 

 

2 hours ago, Morgo said:

The style of John's logo doesn't look any more detailed than the recent efforts of the Florida Panthers or Vegas Golden Knights. 

I disagree. There is no way Slabyk’s logo is on the same level as the Panthers or Knights’ marks. Both of those are pretty basic in design, and don’t have a lot of pointless, niggling details. 

 

Slabyk’s design, on the other hand, has a buffalo that’s both way too small and way too detailed. Never a good sign. The pointless shading on the buffalo and sabre blades scream early 2000s “detail everything and add silver” aesthetics.

That he darkened the royal to navy and replaced athletic gold with faded old gold is too perfect because of course he did. I remember when he debuted those logos. He wasn’t alone. Every single Sabres concept posted on this forum from back then did the same thing; darken and wash out the classic colours, add silver, and use more detailed buffalo and sabres because detail is modern! 

I know, I made one. I even won Silver in @Brass‘s MS Paint contest with it :D 

 

Back then? That’s what we thought “updating a classic” had to look like. A logo that harkened back to an older mark, but with more detail, darker colours, and grey accents. 

 

Slabyk’s logo is among the better examples of these kinds of Sabres concepts, but that’s all they ever were. Concepts that were the products of the time they were made in. 

Good? In context, sure. That doesn’t mean they haven’t aged poorly. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't tell what the updates are with the old graphic versus the new photo. Sometimes the crests don't perfectly reflect the graphics.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Morgo said:

TpEXrk3.png

 

The more I look at this thing the worse it gets. The outlines are so blatantly lazy, especially evident where the blade meets the quillon. I had to Google that word.

 

I always loved Slabyk's concept, but the Winter Classic crest minus the NY is a nice subtle update of the original. If I were a Sabres fan I'd take either of those over what they have now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If I was a Sabres fan, I’d be hoping that the Winter Classic logo is them testing the waters for an update.  

 

Heck, as the father of a newly-minted Rangers fan (and therefore someone who will be watching a lot of Rangers games), I’m hoping the N.Y. shield becomes a new alternate, like the Islanders’ Winter Classic logo before it. @andrewharrington is that your work?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BrandMooreArt said:

 

No, I dont think there's confusion to the end of "I don't know that's a buffalo" but there is a real craftsmanship issue there.  Its not well rendered at all, and even though its primary application is a large one on the front of a sweater, its still a logo and it needs to shrink down and be flexible enough to work at smaller sizes.  It's a fine enough take on the logo, but that's not the quality I expect from a professional sports team


Brandon, I am a big fan of your work and would love to see your take on an updated Sabres logo.  But if you think the original isn't in bad need of a modernization, you've got the nostalgia blinders on.  Yes, Slabyk's version needs to be shrunk down to work in smaller sizes but it still does a much better job than the current, 'everything outlined in silver' iteration.  The "classic" logo also needs to work in smaller sizes and when you shrink it down the Buffalo looks even more non-descript and awkward.
 

2 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

They did more than that. 

They added a bit of extra definition to the areas where the buffalo’s legs meet the body. The two most notable areas for me would be the space between the two back legs and the front left leg.  The ever-so-slight revisions give the buffalo a bit more definition and most certainly lessen the “white blob” effect.  It’s also worth noting that the sabre hilts were given a once-over too. The ends are more round and less bloob-like.

 

Right you are.  The revisions to the leg area are a big improvement over the original but it still just seems flat and dated to me.  Maybe if the swords had a little more work.

 

Quote

Slabyk’s design, on the other hand, has a buffalo that’s both way too small and way too detailed. Never a good sign. The pointless shading on the buffalo and sabre blades scream early 2000s “detail everything and add silver” aesthetics.  That he darkened the royal to navy and replaced athletic gold with faded old gold is too perfect because of course he did. I remember when he debuted those logos. He wasn’t alone. Every single Sabres concept posted on this forum from back then did the same thing; darken and wash out the classic colours, add silver, and use more detailed buffalo and sabres because detail is modern!

 

I'm not saying it's perfect by any stretch.  Obviously the Navy and faded gold should be replaced with the classic colours and there's zero need for the beveling effect on the circle but the Buffalo still looks more realistic and the swords look more worthy of a team called the 'Sabres'.  Maybe the shading on the Buffalo is superfluous but it works perfectly on the blades giving them a more realistic, metallic feel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

If I was a Sabres fan, I’d be hoping that the Winter Classic logo is them testing the waters for an update.

I am, and I am.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Gothamite said:

as the father of a newly-minted Rangers fan

 

This is what conversion therapy is for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Morgo i think i jumped i to the middle of something; i probably didnt get a chance to take in all the info here. i didnt mean to compare one logo to the other, just stricktly speaking to the one i quoted about (which i think andrew was also adressing?) it has some real craftsmanship issues. i think Andy is right, it actually looks more like a cotton ball than a buffalo. 

 

but all that said it makes me wonder how much it matters. that specific logo is not well crafted, but the bigger question to me is does it make a real difference? i mean if that were the official logo would people care that the lighting and fur rendering wasnt good or wouldnt be reproduced well at small sizes? what i struggle with is, how much should i care if people will love a poorly rendered logo if its good enough that most people would wear it with pride? maybe a better question for @andrewharrington ? maybe ill have a better answer after the mojitos wear off :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No pictures, but im watching the sabres game on MSG in Colorado, and on the close ups the blue yolk looks royal and

 

:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

 

fantastic, and a much needed change

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, the admiral said:

This is what conversion therapy is for.

 

:D 

 

Hey, he’s a city kid through and through. If I thought the Islanders would stick around I could steer him there.  But the Isles haven’t done much work laying down roots in Brooklyn, and seem destined to return to Nassau with Belmont.  I’m much happier having him root for a team on a subway line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, DiePerske said:

No pictures, but im watching the sabres game on MSG in Colorado, and on the close ups the blue yolk looks royal and

 

:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

 

fantastic, and a much needed change

Wait...what? Colorado's arena televises on the bright side (as opposed to, like, 75% of the league), so maybe you're just ...seeing things?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, DiePerske said:

No pictures, but im watching the sabres game on MSG in Colorado, and on the close ups the blue yolk looks royal and

 

:wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub::wub:

 

fantastic, and a much needed change

Sorry bud. Still navy

 

DQVobn9XcAAXpiV.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, NYYNYR said:

Wait...what? Colorado's arena televises on the bright side (as opposed to, like, 75% of the league), so maybe you're just ...seeing things?

 

That’s what I thought he was saying - it looked royal on the broadcast, and that would be an improvement.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now