Bmac

NHL 2017-18

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5 minutes ago, Morgo said:

 

The new Sabres WC logo everyone fawns over isn't correct either.  Who cares?  It's a faux-back and a huge improvement over the original uniform.

 

That's my point. If it's not going to be accurate, then it should at least support the current brand or be better than the logo it's supposed to replicate. The throwback roundel they have on file for Chicago fits none of those criteria.

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34 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

 

That's my point. If it's not going to be accurate, then it should at least support the current brand or be better than the logo it's supposed to replicate. The throwback roundel they have on file for Chicago fits none of those criteria.

 

It's an alternate uniform, the logo is supposed to be different.  Putting the main logo in a roundel seems rather lazy, especially considering it doesn't even use the tan colour featured so prominently on the uniform.  I agree that it could be touched up but as long as they use a native-indian-head, nobody is going to confuse it for anything other than a Blackhawks logo.

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20 minutes ago, Morgo said:

 

It's an alternate uniform, the logo is supposed to be different.  Putting the main logo in a roundel seems rather lazy, especially considering it doesn't even use the tan colour featured so prominently on the uniform.  I agree that it could be touched up but as long as they use a native-indian-head, nobody is going to confuse it for anything other than a Blackhawks logo.


The logo they used doesn't use the tan color featured so prominently on the uniform, either. You know you can change colors with a couple clicks in Adobe Illustrator, right?

 

So, lemme get this straight... updating a past logo using elements of the team's current identity (to be used on an updated past jersey that will be sold and merchandised alongside the team's current jersey for several years) is lazy, but slapping an inaccurately drawn and anachronistic logo on said jersey is diligent and prudent? :rolleyes:

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27 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

So, lemme get this straight... making an updated version of a classic logo using elements of the team's current branding for an updated third uniform that will be sold and merchandised alongside the team's current branding is lazy, but slapping an inaccurately drawn and anachronistic logo on a classic jersey is diligent and prudent? :rolleyes:

 

Shrinking a super-detailed logo down to fit in the roundel of a uniform that never featured it is the definition of lazy.  The logo below works as a roundel inset because it is comparatively simple.  Could it use some sweeping refinements and more simplifications?  Absolutely.  They should go the route of the Sabres and turn it into something well rendered without losing that old school feel.  But even in its current state, it is still a better option than what you're advocating.

gUtcPZx.png
 

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The logo they used doesn't use the tan color featured so prominently on the uniform, either. You know you can change colors with a couple clicks in Adobe Illustrator, right?


Wait, you can change colours with a couple of clicks in Adobe Illustrator?  Wow, I had no idea.  Thank you!  :rolleyes:

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17 minutes ago, Morgo said:

 

Shrinking a super-detailed logo down to fit in the roundel of a uniform that never featured it is the definition of lazy.  The logo below works as a roundel inset because it is comparatively simple.  Could it use some sweeping refinements and more simplifications?  Absolutely.  They should go the route of the Sabres and turn it into something well rendered without losing that old school feel.  But even in its current state, it is still a better option than what you're advocating.

gUtcPZx.png
 


Wait, you can change colours with a couple of clicks in Adobe Illustrator?  Wow, I had no idea.  Thank you!  :rolleyes:

 

Simpler!? It has one fewer feather, but twice as many wrinkles on the face and probably three or four times as many highlights in the hair and braid, not to mention the fact that it sill doesn't belong on that jersey and the hair detailing should be gold. But hey, no one cares, so "good enough" does not equal lazy in this case. "Doing actual work so that the team brand isn't a mess" is lazy.

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1 hour ago, andrewharrington said:

 

Simpler!? It has one fewer feather, but twice as many wrinkles on the face and probably three or four times as many highlights in the hair and braid, not to mention the fact that it sill doesn't belong on that jersey and the hair detailing should be gold. But hey, no one cares, so "good enough" does not equal lazy in this case. "Doing actual work so that the team brand isn't a mess" is lazy.

 

Did you read what I posted?  Apparently not, so I'll post it again...
 

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Could it use some sweeping refinements and more simplifications?  Absolutely.  They should go the route of the Sabres and turn it into something well rendered without losing that old school feel.


Reducing the number of wrinkles, highlights ,etc is precisely what I was advocating.  They've already gone the faux-back route by altering it so why not take it further and give it a simplification without eliminating the old school feel?  Yes, it's dated but with some work it could make for a really strong, alternate mark.

But even as it stands, it is still a simpler mark overall.  Look at the amount of detail in the feathers of the current logo.  Do you really think they will translate well when you shrink the logo & confine it to a roundel and then make it small enough for icon status on a phone or tablet? 

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1 hour ago, Morgo said:

 

Did you read what I posted?  Apparently not, so I'll post it again...
 


Reducing the number of wrinkles, highlights ,etc is precisely what I was advocating.  They've already gone the faux-back route by altering it so why not take it further and give it a simplification without eliminating the old school feel?  Yes, it's dated but with some work it could make for a really strong, alternate mark.

But even as it stands, it is still a simpler mark overall.  Look at the amount of detail in the feathers of the current logo.  Do you really think they will translate well when you shrink the logo & confine it to a roundel and then make it small enough for icon status on a phone or tablet? 

 

Reduce the amount of detail in the face and hair... so, in other words, make it more like the current mark?

 

Phones and tablets have four times the resolution of most monitors, so yes, it would work fine. You could also just run the exact same simplification on the current mark’s feathers to arrive at a solution that has the feels like the right era, still fits with the team’s brand, avoids looking unintentionally anachronistic, etc.

 

EDIT: I forgot about the lettering that looks too digital as well.

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I truly don't see the need for any Blackhawks alternate that's not a one-shot deal for an outdoor game, and also, stop giving us outdoor games so that everyone stops yelling at us.

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2 minutes ago, the admiral said:

I truly don't see the need for any Blackhawks alternate that's not a one-shot deal for an outdoor game, and also, stop giving us outdoor games so that everyone stops yelling at us.

 

Imagine it from a designer’s perspective; year after year pumping a well that went dry ages ago! :P

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7 hours ago, andrewharrington said:

 

Reduce the amount of detail in the face and hair... so, in other words, make it more like the current mark?


No, to make it simpler than the current mark so it fits nicely in the confines of a roundel & chest stripe and maintains the spirit of Chicago's 1935 uniform.  It boggles my mind why anyone would want to put the current logo in a roundel in the first place.  It's the same situation as what Minnesota did with their scenery-bear on the Iron-Range-Reds.  A logo that good shouldn't be minimized and constrained, period.
 

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Phones and tablets have four times the resolution of most monitors, so yes, it would work fine.

 

 

So the concerns related to the shrinking of John Slabyk's Sabres logo were completely baseless.  Good to know.

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11 hours ago, Morgo said:


No, to make it simpler than the current mark so it fits nicely in the confines of a roundel & chest stripe and maintains the spirit of Chicago's 1935 uniform.  It boggles my mind why anyone would want to put the current logo in a roundel in the first place.  It's the same situation as what Minnesota did with their scenery-bear on the Iron-Range-Reds.  A logo that good shouldn't be minimized and constrained, period.
 

 

So the concerns related to the shrinking of John Slabyk's Sabres logo were completely baseless.  Good to know.

 

Six of one, half dozen of another.

 

The issue is that it’s silly to just toss an anachronistic logo on a throwback jersey, plain and simple. If the logo is not going to be accurate, there should be some visible intent and care taken to make it work better in some context, for example, a current chief head, simplified and/or modified to look a bit more era-appropriate, but in the format of the mid-1930s roundel. Putting a 1948 mark on a 1936 jersey just makes absolutely zero sense here, no matter how much refinement is done. This is the last I’m going to say on the matter because it’s exhausting explaining a simple point over and over. I feel justified on a teenage girl sort of level considering I won the day yesterday and you got zero likes, so I’ll leave it at that. :P

 

 

If shrinking John’s logo for mobile was the only, or even the main concern with it, then I’d say you got me there. However, it’s not. As discussed, I, and others, are more concerned by its dated aesthetic, lack of clarity and confidence in its composition, and it’s reliance on added color and detail to carry it when it’s not at all necessary.

 

Buffalo’s coin has never been a complex mark, at least not until they added the grey trim. Chicago, on the other hand, has always had a complex mark (yes, even the 1948 one), and it’s always worked for them even though it needs to be simplified for small embroidery applications and it requires several more colors on a screen-print press. They are, and should be, an exception.

 

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If the Golden Knights had a gold uniform, it would be one of the 100 greatest uniforms in NHL history.

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23 hours ago, the admiral said:

cut.jpg

 

STOP TROLLING

 

I like all 6 jerseys in this picture though. 

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Quote

However, it’s not. As discussed, I, and others, are more concerned by its dated aesthetic, lack of clarity and confidence in its composition, and it’s reliance on added color and detail to carry it when it’s not at all necessary.  Buffalo’s coin has never been a complex mark, at least not until they added the grey trim. Chicago, on the other hand, has always had a complex mark (yes, even the 1948 one), and it’s always worked for them even though it needs to be simplified for small embroidery applications and it requires several more colors on a screen-print press. They are, and should be, an exception.

 

Translation: logos can only be complicated if they originated in the 50's or if they belong to the Blackhawks.  It would be fine if you said it was your opinion but the way to express it as an indisputable fact is where I take issue.

 

That being said, I did a fast mock-up of what you advocated and it works a hell of a lot better than I thought it would.  So I will admit to being wrong about that.  No update of the "anachronistic" logo is necessary, just don't bring back that awful black jersey from the 90's.

 

0v2n0hU.jpg

 

 

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49 minutes ago, KittSmith_95 said:

 

I like all 6 jerseys in this picture though. 

 

I'm good on 5 of the 6. Disliked the pre Selanne era Winnipeg jerseys. Thought it was an ugly, bunched up muddled crest. Didn't like the long racing stripe that went all the way down the shoulders. The TV numbers on the away jersey were very ugly

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33 minutes ago, Morgo said:

 

Yes, the group-think on these boards is strong.

 

 

Translation: logos can only be complicated if they originated in the 50's or if they belong to the Blackhawks.  It would be fine if you said it was your opinion but the way to express it as an indisputable fact is where I take issue.

 

That being said, I did a fast mock-up of what you advocated and it works a hell of a lot better than I thought it would.  So I will admit to being wrong about that.  No update of the "anachronistic" logo is necessary, just don't bring back that awful black jersey from the 90's.

 

0v2n0hU.jpg

 

 

 

I wouldn't say they can *only* be complex under those conditions, but it takes a deft hand and a commitment to a certain aesthetic to pull off an overly complex logo. John didn't display the former very well, and the Sabres certainly don't subscribe to the right aesthetic to make it work like Chicago does (in my opinion, of course ^_^).

 

For the proper 1936 look, I would ditch the red outline, make the inner circle black, enlarge the head a little, and I'd probably even strip out the face paint and simplify the patterning inside the feathers (and, of course, refine the lettering to look a little more humanistic and use solid black numerals inside the stripes).

 

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And yes, the more recent black alternates are the worst.

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Has no one mentioned that the canadiens basically looks like they are playing maple leaf dress-up on these wideshots of this game?

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I understand that both teams can wear colored helmets in these games, but it doesnt mean they should. Montreal's white helmet would look a lot better. Detroit wore all white last year and it looked fine.

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1 hour ago, TheLAKnight said:

I understand that both teams can wear colored helmets in these games, but it doesnt mean they should. Montreal's white helmet would look a lot better. Detroit wore all white last year and it looked fine.

Agreed. White helmets would look better. Also, uni needs more red to stand out from Toronto. Should have put red numbers on back. 

 

Also, Ottawa looks great

 

 

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