Bmac

NHL 2017-18

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2 hours ago, Thaumatrope said:

 

Thats fair. I don't disagree that Black Hawk is much more culturally relevant to Chicago than bears, their offspring, or guys in white socks. 

 

However, there's nothing about the logo itself that visually connects it to Chicago, or to Black Hawk himself short of a very rudimentary "Black Hawk was a native leader, therefore a logo of a native person symbolizes Black Hawk" kind of logic. Yes, people in the region are likely to be aware of who Black Hawk was, but to suggest that the image of a native person automatically creates a connection with Black Hawk is akin to suggesting a logo of a 19th century white man would be inherently associated with Abraham Lincoln.  

 

The interesting thing to me is, well... none of the other Chicago logos have any visual connection to Chicago, either. It's really time and the investment thereof that has made all these marks synonymous with Chicago. There are very few logos more than, say, twenty years old that *do* have any visual connection to the locales they represent, other than *maybe* color. It's a very recent phenomenon, and the approach seems to be resonating with fans. Maybe because it feels more personal, like some designer thought about what you would like as a fan from wherever. Maybe it's increased tribalism, where fans are learning about and want to rally behind their own special icons. Maybe it's the fact that non-specific design is a tough egg to crack these days, and the easiest way to make something unique is to localize it. Probably a bit of each.

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7 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

none of the other Chicago logos have any visual connection to Chicago, either.

The Fire's logo does.

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1 hour ago, CRichardson said:

The Fire's logo does.

 

What in the Fire’s logo is specific to Chicago, rather than just generic fire department iconography?

 

1024px-Chicago_Fire_Soccer_Club.svg.png

 

I guess they have the hint of a six-pointed star, but it’s not even a red star. 

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The Blackhawks/Canucks logo/jersey color comparison doesn't work for me.

 

The Blackhawks color scheme is red and black. The crest uses red and black, and a lot of additional colors that add to the look they're going for.

 

The Canucks colors are royal and green. Their logo uses no royal and no green, but navy and silver. It doesn't look like the same scheme with some additional flair added. It looks like a completely different color scheme entirely. No connection at all to the uniform.

 

Vegas annoys me by lacking red on their crest, but at least their other colors are team colors. Grey, black, and gold are all used both places.

 

The Canucks just completely ignore team colors entirely for the colors of their logo, and thats why it looks so awful to me. 

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1 hour ago, the admiral said:

The logo should be you because like Black Hawk, you're valiantly fighting a losing effort.

 

I fail to see how I've lost anything at this point. A generic representation of a native person is not an effective (or arguably appropriate) stand in for a specific individual of that race, especially when there are a number of historic representations of said individual (1, 2, 3, 4). What's more, even the 86th Infantry Division (which is ultimately sited as the inspiration for the name) doesn't use an "indian head" insignia either. I'd be willing to accept the argument if the logo in question was for the Cleveland Indians, but from a purely visual standpoint there is no readily apparent connection between the Blackhawks logo and the Black Hawk.

 

 

1 hour ago, andrewharrington said:

 

The interesting thing to me is, well... none of the other Chicago logos have any visual connection to Chicago, either. It's really time and the investment thereof that has made all these marks synonymous with Chicago. There are very few logos more than, say, twenty years old that *do* have any visual connection to the locales they represent, other than *maybe* color. It's a very recent phenomenon, and the approach seems to be resonating with fans. Maybe because it feels more personal, like some designer thought about what you would like as a fan from wherever. Maybe it's increased tribalism, where fans are learning about and want to rally behind their own special icons. Maybe it's the fact that non-specific design is a tough egg to crack these days, and the easiest way to make something unique is to localize it. Probably a bit of each.

 

Really good observation. As I mentioned in my fugue-screed, sports branding is an anomaly in that it predates the very concept of branding. Chicago's history of professional sports goes all the way back to 1870, 20 years before Coca-Cola was founded and set us on the path to brands as we know them. Even the Bulls, Chicago's youngest "established" sports team was founded in 1966 at a time when sports branding was only beginning to take shape. As @CRichardson points out, the Chicago Fire (founded in 1997) are the only major professional sports team to actively brand itself in connection with the city of Chicago. In many ways this illustrates your point better than I ever could. Sometime between 1966 and 1997 professional sports became a heavily branded industry, and this very forum is evidence of just how powerful and extensive that branding has become. 

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29 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

What in the Fire’s logo is specific to Chicago, rather than just generic fire department iconography?

 

Sodboy and/or Google Image Search can bail me out on this but I think the badge is the very same shape as that of the Chicago Fire Department, which is a step above generic but still not something that would cross one's mind very often, not counting firefighters and serial arsonists.

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That and the fact that there’s a big red “C” in the middle and it reads “Chicago Fire”. Maybe that’s cheating but it gets the point across...albeit bluntly.

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15 minutes ago, Thaumatrope said:

That and the fact that there’s a big red “C” in the middle and it reads “Chicago Fire”. Maybe that’s cheating but it gets the point across...albeit bluntly.

 

Yeah, but that’s no different than the Cubs or any of the various White Sox logos that have used a C. 

 

@CRichardson indicated that there was something particularly “Chicago” about the Fire’s logo where there isn’t in any of the other major teams’ logos. 

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3 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

Sodboy and/or Google Image Search can bail me out on this but I think the badge is the very same shape as that of the Chicago Fire Department, which is a step above generic but still not something that would cross one's mind very often, not counting firefighters and serial arsonists.

 

It's actually not, which is the first thing I would change about it. The Fire's logo is much more square in composition than the classic maltese cross that most fire departments use. CFD in particular are better known for their ornate monogram than they are their cross.

 

The curved extremes should bulge out a little and the corners should be brought in a little, in my opinion, to form a more round or octagonal composition.

 

2 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Yeah, but that’s no different than the Cubs or any of the various White Sox logos that have used a C. 

 

@CRichardson indicated that there was something particularly “Chicago” about the Fire’s logo where there isn’t in any of the other major teams’ logos. 

 

This is another good point, and where the primary logo might fall short, the Blackhawks' secondary helps carry the identity for the locals with nearly the same amount of recognition.

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5 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

What in the Fire’s logo is specific to Chicago, rather than just generic fire department iconography?

 

I guess they have the hint of a six-pointed star, but it’s not even a red star. 

 

The way that the star is so subtly used in that mark really bugs me because it looks like a dog collar. It's always the first thing that pops out to me whenever I see it and it bothers me so much.

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The all-star jerseys feature the NHLPA logo on the back hem.  I do not remember if it was ever there in past jerseys.

 

The jerseys themselves were already kinda meh, but add in the sock design and white pants for the pacific, and it adds up to a really ugly look.  Really thought the tide was turning with last years designs.

 

DUpdHUGW4AAthFW.jpg

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Did we ever get Nikadidaspeak for the all-star jerseys? The striping on the numbers reminds me of this:

 

sunshine-skyway-bridge-iii-tampa-bay-flo

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15 hours ago, Cosmic said:

Did we ever get Nikadidaspeak for the all-star jerseys? The striping on the numbers reminds me of this:

 

sunshine-skyway-bridge-iii-tampa-bay-flo

Because that was the intention....

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On 1/25/2018 at 7:05 PM, Thaumatrope said:

(As an aside, does anyone else find it strange that Chicago uses a plural for what is effectively a proper singular name? It's the equivalent of being the George Washingtons or the Abraham Lincolns. I realize the team is supposed to be named after a military division named after Black Hawk, but the whole thing is as grammatically frustrating as the Maple Leafs.)

 

Like the Cleveland Browns or Yale Elis. Or the Tommies, Johnnies, and Oles in Minnesota collegiate athletics. 

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On 1/28/2018 at 7:05 PM, Cosmic said:

Did we ever get Nikadidaspeak for the all-star jerseys? The striping on the numbers reminds me of this:

 

sunshine-skyway-bridge-iii-tampa-bay-flo

 

the-great-gatsby-fashion-1-545.gif

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All right, how many times did someone spot an upside down B, D, or O on a player’s nameplate (or even an E and H if you’re really good)?

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Vancouver Canucks will wear a special red jersey for the Chinese new year against the Bruins (feb 17th)

 

knMWGcY.png

 

The patch looks nice, but other than that it's just a red jersey

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A close up view and explanation of the Canucks Chinese New Year warm ups.

 

A)Traditional red and gold colour palette symbolizing luck and fortune. B ) Unique "Year of the Dog" chest patch and shoulder patches embroidered red on gold.

C) Traditional Chinese papercut design motif.  D) Simplified Chinese character for "Dog" integrated into papercut design.  E) Pacific Northwest Husky dog persona representing family and strength.  F) Curled upturn tail symbolizing happiness and luck.  F) Canucks stick from "stick in rink" logo.

 

I like the thought that went behind it.  They could have just gone with a red warm up jersey with Chinese lettering and be done with it.

 

AsRVG6s.jpg

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So, I hate to resurrect the whole Army vs Vegas topic, but I had an interesting experience just a couple days ago, and I thought it was worth sharing...

 

I work retail out here in Oregon, where there isn't a whole lot of hockey merch worn on a daily basis. I had a customer come into my store (the business is not sports related) and he was wearing a hat very similar to the one pictured:61zoHI6+lmL._UX562_.jpg

 

After a very quick glance, I almost walked over and made a comment about the Vegas Golden Knights, until I saw the side of the hat which read West Point.

 

My point to this post is that if I consider myself to be logo and "brand" savvy, and I had presumed a hat logo to represent one team instead of another, I'd say Vegas doesn't stand a snowball's chance in court. Get regular Joe Public types who don't follow that stuff, and I think it's going to fall apart real quick for Vegas. Just my two cents worth...

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