the admiral

(NHL Playoffs) Rite of Spring 2017: can't go on, no, I'll go on

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5 minutes ago, Bradbury said:

But let's talk about Nashville being insecure...

They are. Or at least the team is.

 

5 minutes ago, Bradbury said:

100.3% capacity for a team that played like garbage for a good chunk of the season, just sneaking into the playoffs. If they were truly insecure about "filling the stadium," why would they turn away fans from anywhere? Just an asinine argument.

I said they were insecure. I never said it was justified.

The shot of the crowd in downtown Nashville for game six is enough to convince me that the Preds won't have a problem filling the arena with their own fans if they trusted the free market. If just a fraction of the people who turned out became hooked as lifers? The team's in good shape when it comes to having a healthy long-term fanbase.

 

They don't need the ticket policy they have. Yet they keep it. That's insecurity. Even if it isn't justified. 

Insecurity rarely is.

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11 minutes ago, twi said:

I see a lot of complaining in here about things that I've never seen mentioned anywhere...but here when people complain about them. Interesting phenomena. 

It's called "bullshat".

 

@Ice_Cap, you wouldn't have any problems wearing opposing team's gear.  The only time I've seen some issues is when a fan (or group of fans) have been over-served and got aggressive in their support.  (On both sides, not just the Nashville fans.)  On the whole, they're pretty cool towards the visiting fans, even Detroit fans.

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6 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

They are. Or at least the team is.

 

I said they were insecure. I never said it was justified.

The shot of the crowd in downtown Nashville for game six is enough to convince me that the Preds won't have a problem filling the arena with their own fans if they trusted the free market. If just a fraction of the people who turned out became hooked as lifers? The team's in good shape when it comes to having a healthy long-term fanbase.

 

They don't need the ticket policy they have. Yet they keep it. That's insecurity. Even if it isn't justified. 

Insecurity rarely is.

 

Once again, the only insecurity present here is the Preds' concern about a secondary market profiting off of their product. It's all about control of where tickets go, not what fans come to the game. It's about not letting some broker in California buy up hundreds of hot tickets and selling them for 3-4x the face value. That actually would prevent people from going to the game. Instead, they give the best rates for playoff games to renewing STHs.

 

Since you clearly ignored it earlier, I'll repeat the fact that they push concert promoters to use credit card entry for shows at Bridgestone Arena. It requires the person who initially bought the tickets to show up to the event, preventing the StubHub effect and ensuring the money goes to the building and promoter.

 

I don't have the story handy, but I recall some articles about the Preds (along with Ticketmaster) lobbying the TN state legislature to protect their product from scalpers and sites like StubHub. At no point have they petitioned to ban Blackhawks fans from wearing red in the state. That's called spin, which you've bought hook, line & sinker.

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4 minutes ago, HedleyLamarr said:

It's called "bullshat".

Not so sure. admiral said Preds fans brag about the options for drinking downtown and then complain when Blackhawks fans drink downtown. Then a Preds fan complains about out of towners drinking downtown. 

It's a "two sides to every story" sort of thing but there does seem to be some animas felt towards the fans of other teams on the part of the Preds faithful. 

 

4 minutes ago, HedleyLamarr said:

@Ice_Cap, you wouldn't have any problems wearing opposing team's gear.  The only time I've seen some issues is when a fan (or group of fans) have been over-served and got aggressive in their support.  (On both sides, not just the Nashville fans.)  On the whole, they're pretty cool towards the visiting fans, even Detroit fans.

That is legitimately nice to hear. 

My own experiences in Tampa are a mixed bag. On one hand there's enough transplants here that an opposing team's sweater won't raise too many eyebrows. 

On the other hand you also get the...enthusiastic...local can who goes "what are ya doin' wearing that?" as he points to my Leafs sweater. Well I would think the answer's obvious, wouldn't you?

 

Full disclosure. Most of my Lightning games have come courtesy of my Habs-crazy transplanted extended family or through my boss, who has season tickets.  And out of respect for the local fanbase and the people who've invited me along? I wear a Lightning sweater (an old "storm" alternate, for those wondering) and pull for the Bolts if the Leafs aren't in town. That just seems neighbourly. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

edit-

@Bradbury

 

I need to stop engaging in these regional dick measuring contests.

You guys have a great fanbase down there, and I legitimately feel like what happened a few days ago will make you all stronger.

Edited by Ice_Cap
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37 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Not so sure. admiral said Preds fans brag about the options for drinking downtown and then complain when Blackhawks fans drink downtown. Then a Preds fan complains about out of towners drinking downtown. 

It's a "two sides to every story" sort of thing but there does seem to be some animas felt towards the fans of other teams on the part of the Preds faithful.

Admiral says a lot of things about Predators fans.  Most, if not all, come from whatever message board or website where Chicago fans like to jerk each other off.  I wouldn't put much stock in a guy constantly referring to a team's home games being a Klan rally.  He's not exactly a beacon of knowledge when it comes to being at a Predators game or knowing anything about how Nashville hockey fans assert themselves.

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Posted (edited)

Spoiler

 

1 hour ago, Ice_Cap said:

I didn't ignore any of this. I just dismissed it becauss I just don't buy it. I'm sorry. I just think this particular argument is weak.

 

And I don't buy your overtly-biased theories. Guess we're even? Still gonna finish this post.

 

Quote

See, the whole "the...concern [is] about a secondary market profiting off of their product" excuse just rings hollow to me. If the Preds price their tickets at $X and someone is willing to pay $X for Y# of seats then the Preds made their money! What the secondary market does or doesn't do is immaterial! It literally doesn't matter from a purely economic perspective as far as the team goes. Once they've sold the seat? That's it.

 

Make a limited number of something popular, put them on sale, and let me buy half of them for X. Then I'll go sell that thing for 4X without your blessing. You wouldn't be pissed about missing out on that profit? Or about the unsold things not being used because I priced active fans of the thing out of the market? Right.

 

Quote

Be it Nashville and Tampa disliking the stigma of being a "non traditional" market with a sizeable chunk of the crowd rooting for the opposition. Or the Senators constantly being reminded that they're their third most popular team in their own city. The end result is the same. They don't like it when someone else shows up in visiting colours. 

 

Nashville literally started on the back of opposing crowds thanks to Detroit transplants. Folks would wear Preds stuff every night except for Wings games, and many would layer up and adapt based on how the game was going.

 

Once it became clear to ownership that the team was growing/could grow on its own, they implemented policies to help "grow the gold." They literally offered a free/discount (I forget which) Preds jersey when someone swapped in a Hawks sweater a few years back. Bush league? A little. Did many take the offer? No clue. Did they ban Hawks fans from wearing red? You know the answer by now. Are people still talking about such policies like they affect their daily lives? Resounding yes.

 

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My reasoning is that you don't see Toronto or New York or Chicago pulling this chicanery.

 

Solid use of "chicanery." If the Rangers jumped off a bridge, would the Leafs?

 

Quote

If the reasons you listed were really that big of a problem? And the policy that much of a solution? You'd see this all over the league. You don't though. You don't see MLSE and the ACC wringing their hands over Illinois postal codes and credit cards when the 'Hawks come to Toronto.

 

MLSE has convinced people to give them money despite not winning a Cup since expansion. Not really a fair comparison.

 

Every team has some sort of policy like this. Whether it's limiting how many tickets one can buy or using dynamic pricing/multi-game packages to capitalize on rivalries. The only thing Nashville did differently was market their plan as a "Keep Chicago/St. Louis fans out" plan basically to get attention. Now it's an every other game procedure, just part of the operation. As someone who works for a sports team and deals with ticketing stuff, I know that going to ID/credit card entry limits other problems that arise with paper tickets, including "lost" revenue in secondary markets. Other major pro teams are slowly moving to this sort of thing. (Or they're straight-up partnering with StubHub to get their cut.) They just aren't doing it as loudly as Nashville.

 

Quote

It's only limited to the teams that really get irritated about fans in visiting sweaters. So...I'm sorry. It just looks like what it looks like.

 

When the Preds moved to gold as a primary color, Tom Cigarran (team chairman) mentioned that yellow was psychologically linked to irritation. Whether you see it or not, part of the team's goal was to get under the skin of other fanbases. Thanks for being proof.

 

Quote

And again, since you seemed to ignore this part. The Preds don't need to do this crap. The game has been grown in Nashville. Put it on a bloody banner. "2007 Ice_Cap was wrong about Nashville as a NHL market." I don't know how many other ways I can say that. You have the fan support where you don't need to do this crap.

 

Agreed, they don't need to do this. But they've decided it's advantageous to their operation in ways that you fail to recognize. If outsiders' perception were a factor, then I'm sure the Preds would survey Leafs fans in Florida. Instead, they'll keep doing what they're doing, reap the benefits (including free press), and keep selling out games.

 

 

Edited by Bradbury
Spoiler'd to minimize my ramblings. Kept ramblings because they took forever to type.

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7 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

You kind of sunk your entire point in the last quarter there. 

 

Have confidence in your fanbase. "We won't sell to those meanies from out of town" comes off as "we're afraid to trust the free market because if we do we can't fill the building." 

 

As far as "morons" coming into town goes? Welcome to the economy of tourism.

The problem is, the secondary market goes to the highest bidder. Most people will not barter their tickets themselves. They go online, and sell to whoever pays the most. That's the reality. And in the midwest, it's 'cheap' for someone from the east or west coast to get airfare and tickets compared to seeing the game 'at home'.

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Well Bradbury, you decided to keep that up. And continued to troll after I tried to just move on. Solid move.

Don't worry. I'm not going to rant and rave. I'll just leave this one here.

 

1 hour ago, Bradbury said:

And I don't buy your overtly-biased theories.

And you're not biased? I have no problem admitting my own biases. I just take issue when others can't do the same. This is a two way street, and you're no more objective than I am.

You're proud of your team and where you came from. Cool. So am I. Go Leafs go ;)

 

1 hour ago, Sykotyk said:

The problem is, the secondary market goes to the highest bidder. Most people will not barter their tickets themselves. They go online, and sell to whoever pays the most. That's the reality. And in the midwest, it's 'cheap' for someone from the east or west coast to get airfare and tickets compared to seeing the game 'at home'.

I guess I don't see that as a problem. Again, you don't see MLSE and the ACC freaking out about Illinois postal codes and the "secondary market." All the crap about "lol 1967" is ultimately snark-speak for "the Leafs' fanbase is large and healthy enough so that such tactics aren't necessary."

Which should be the goal of every team.

 

2 hours ago, HedleyLamarr said:

Admiral says a lot of things about Predators fans.  Most, if not all, come from whatever message board or website where Chicago fans like to jerk each other off.  I wouldn't put much stock in a guy constantly referring to a team's home games being a Klan rally.  He's not exactly a beacon of knowledge when it comes to being at a Predators game or knowing anything about how Nashville hockey fans assert themselves.

Well here's the thing. And this ties into what I said about biases...you have them. admiral has them. I have them. Bradbury has them.

So if I want a picture of what the Nashville Predators fanbase is like? All I can do is look what can't be disputed.

Pretty impressive crowds in downtown Nashville to view the game, a rocking arena for home games, over-eager catfish throwers, popular chants, trash on the ice after a gutpunch of a loss in the championship round (ie I get why they were mad even if I think it's a bit disappointing, before you read anymore into that), and pretty lame and mockery-worthy ticket policies.

 

Add that with what admiral, yourself, Bradbury, and others have said accounting for authorial bias? My personal view of the Nashville fanbase is that they're loyal, excited, skew young (a very good thing, long term), maybe a bit inexperienced and over eager, have feelings of insecurity next to the larger, and more established fanbases up north, and finally? Probably generally like the idea of opposing fans who don't run their mouth or start trouble, and overall are very welcoming. Still? Maybe are a bit too sensitive on that front because of the feelings of insecurity. Which leads to some road fans feeling unwelcome and looked down upon by the locals.

 

Which, if you think is harsh, I would disagree. Again, young, excited, loyal, and growing. All very good traits. The negatives come down to what essentially is fan interaction. If things skew closer to your version than admiral's? Then more and more visiting fans won't feel put out by the Preds faithful. Assuming they're allowed to procure tickets, at any rate ;)

 

EDIT- That was longer than I planned. Oh well. At least my response to Bradbury was short :P

 

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I'm more annoyed about the Penguins winning than the Warriors, contrary to the NBA playoff board.

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1 hour ago, Bradbury said:

Moving on (sort of). A semi-official statement from the league re: "The Whistle."

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/sports/nhl/predators/2017/06/13/rexrode-nhl-explains-why-predators-goal-didnt-count/393287001/

Well that is what it is. It was a set of very unfortunate circumstances that led to the league doing the only thing they could. Applying the letter of the law. Unfortunately that meant disallowing a goal.

 

The best answer would probably be to empower the Toronto office with some sort of override in cases like these.

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Is the NHL so watered down that a freaking rookie goalie has 2 Cups?

 

I mean, seriously, what happened to the days of legendary goalies? From Roy and Fuhr to Hasek and Belfour to..... Matt Murray, whom would probably be a sieve if he played behind Arizona/Winnipeg.

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18 minutes ago, SabresRule7361 said:

I'm more annoyed about the Penguins winning than the Warriors, contrary to the NBA playoff board.

You not liking sports is nothing new either.

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9 minutes ago, SabresRule7361 said:

Is the NHL so watered down that a freaking rookie goalie has 2 Cups?

 

I mean, seriously, what happened to the days of legendary goalies? From Roy and Fuhr to Hasek and Belfour to..... Matt Murray, whom would probably be a sieve if he played behind Arizona/Winnipeg.

So you don't believe Murray can be a "legendary goalie" when he has already surpassed a borderline HOFer on his own team already

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1 hour ago, SabresRule7361 said:

Is the NHL so watered down that a freaking rookie goalie has 2 Cups?

 

I mean, seriously, what happened to the days of legendary goalies?

 

You ever heard of a legend in the making?

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1 hour ago, SabresRule7361 said:

Is the NHL so watered down that a freaking rookie goalie has 2 Cups?

 

I mean, seriously, what happened to the days of legendary goalies? From Roy and Fuhr to Hasek and Belfour to..... Matt Murray, whom would probably be a sieve if he played behind Arizona/Winnipeg.

Yeah or Ken Dryden amirite?

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6 hours ago, HedleyLamarr said:

I wouldn't put much stock in a guy constantly referring to a team's home games being a Klan rally.

 

I'm not 100% sure this happened.

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I fully support measures that keep Penguins fans from attending visiting arenas. 

 

shrug.jpg

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23 hours ago, The Six said:

Who cares about names? What makes the Stanley Cup great is that an untold number of human beings have left various bodily fluids in it, not the least of which is urine, and it still gets passed around and kissed as a holy chalice.

 

19 hours ago, Cosmic said:

Silver has antimicrobial properties.

I remember reading that a swab sample revealed the cup is cleaner than the average office desk. Due, primarily, to the cleaning the keepers give it, but the compsition certainly aids, in that.

 

15 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

I'm not sure "team is insecure about fanbase's ability to fill the stadium so they have to literally make it impossible for opposing fans to show up" qualifies as "good" PR.

 

1) When are the Leafs coming to town?

2) Will I be able to enter the arena in a Leafs sweater? I ask because I'm legitimately not sure if the "visiting fans" being "welcome" claim you made is entirely factual. 

I've attended dozens of Preds games, most in the 2011 - 2014 timeframe, and I've never seen a visiting fan get more than the traditional heckling.

 

13 hours ago, Sykotyk said:

The problem is, the secondary market goes to the highest bidder. Most people will not barter their tickets themselves. They go online, and sell to whoever pays the most. That's the reality. And in the midwest, it's 'cheap' for someone from the east or west coast to get airfare and tickets compared to seeing the game 'at home'.

 

Not exactly, most of the people, I know, got their tickets from someone they know, or by using Facebook groups. I'm a member of one, for the Preds, that has a couple very vigilant admins.

8 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

 

I'm not 100% sure this happened.

 

Not explicitly. You primarily just alluded and heavily suggested.

 

I have no idea who pissed in your cornflakes. The Preds fansbase has its issues, as does any. I, myself, have a couple gripes. That being said, your string of anti-Nashville posts are just as douchey as you're accusing Preds fans of being.

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