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The 2017 NBA Playoffs

678 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, DG_Now said:

The Bill Simmons podcast has become unlistenable with Celtics talk. One day Lonzo is great, the next he's garbage because he's going to LA. One day Isaiah is the next Iverson, the next he's trash. One day the 1 seed matters, the next day the reason season is 2020-21.

 

The Celtics are like the self-actualized Sixers and it still isn't enough.

 

Which, for me, at least, makes the ass-beatings the Cavs have put on the Celtics in the first two games even more enjoyable. 

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Good lord. These have to be the worst playoffs I've ever seen in any sport. Both conference finals have had the leading team in game 2 up by FORTY points in the 4th. If we don't have two 12-0 teams, I'd be pretty surprised. That tells me two things: 

 


1) These two teams are insanely good, and despite this being matchup #3, I cannot wait to see it. 
2) This is probably the worst the NBA has EVER been in terms of talent diversity. Like, if this league were a country, it'd be Russia. And that's REALLY saying something considering the lopsided history of this league. That probably needs to be fixed (or it could just be a crazy coincidence that these two teams went super saiyan at the right time while the rest of the league was particularly down). 

 

This is either going to be the most insane finals we've ever seen, or someone is gonna go nuclear and sweep. 

 

 

 

Also, and this is kinda me just thinking out loud right now, but if you're a big free agent who's REALLY looking to win, is there any reason to sign with anyone who's not Golden State or Cleveland right now? I almost have a feeling this whole two headed superteam monster could actually get even WORSE in the upcoming years. If you REALLY want a ring (that being the motivating factor above the extra cash as these guys are already multi millionaires and cash is always gonna be king) why in the world would you ever even consider signing elsewhere? 

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8 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

 

 

Also, and this is kinda me just thinking out loud right now, but if you're a big free agent who's REALLY looking to win, is there any reason to sign with anyone who's not Golden State or Cleveland right now? I almost have a feeling this whole two headed superteam monster could actually get even WORSE in the upcoming years. If you REALLY want a ring (that being the motivating factor above the extra cash as these guys are already multi millionaires and cash is always gonna be king) why in the world would you ever even consider signing elsewhere? 

There's likely no room.

 

The luxury tax and repeater penalty greatly limit those. The mid-level is likely already used on a current roster spot, so to get onto the team as UFA, one may need to now take a minimum deal and the mid-level is lower due to being over the cap.

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That was brutal. Makes me feel better about the Raptors' efforts against the Cavs.

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I don't know the NBA cap system all that well, so forgive my ignorance, but I feel like there has to be some workaround, no? Like, A guy could legitimately take the minimum or work a sign and trade to end up with one of those two? Maybe? I'm hearing a lot of talk about Melo going to the Cavs next year and it sounds it'd take some serious financial bamboozling and expiring contract'ing to get there, but it's still decently heavy talk, so... 

 

Again, just thinking out loud. 

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Posted (edited)

3 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

That was brutal. Makes me feel better about the Raptors' efforts against the Cavs.

 

And seeing Golden State beating down San Antonio (well, after Kahwi Leonard got injured) makes me feel better about Utah's effort.

 

Edited by DustDevil61
Utah's effort
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Sonehow the freaking Pacers were a Myles Turner shot and a 2nd half disaster from a 2-2 series with Cleveland

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2 minutes ago, SabresRule7361 said:

Sonehow the freaking Pacers were a Myles Turner shot and a 2nd half disaster from a 2-2 series with Cleveland

If things were different they'd be different? YA DON'T SAY!

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Posted (edited)

28 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

I don't know the NBA cap system all that well, so forgive my ignorance, but I feel like there has to be some workaround, no? Like, A guy could legitimately take the minimum or work a sign and trade to end up with one of those tow? Maybe? I'm hearing a lot of talk about Melo going to the Cavs next year and it sounds it'd take some bamboozling to get there, but it's still decently heavy talk, so... 

There is a sliding scale of a minimum salary based on years in the NBA, but it can occur.

 

In the summer of 2015, David West opted out of his $12.9M player option with the Pacers to sign a minimum deal with the Spurs.  It was for two years, with a player option on the second. He again declined the player option to sign with the Warriors for essential the same money.

 

Granted, West was not in his earning prime when he did this, he was 34, but taking less $$$ so early in your career is not that wise if you get injured.

 

As for sign & trade, the salaries exchanged have to somewhat balance out plus future draft picks would need to be involved. It'd likely be rejected as CP3 to LAL was.

 

NOTE: Due to having eight years of service, Steph Curry is a Tier 1 unrestricted Free Agent this summer.  So in theory, he could receive 35% of the cap.  He may sign for less, but for how much less since he took less money when he extended his rookie deal?

Then next summer, Durant's contract come back up.

Edited by dfwabel
sign & trade added
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39 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

Good lord. These have to be the worst playoffs I've ever seen in any sport. Both conference finals have had the leading team in game 2 up by FORTY points in the 4th. If we don't have two 12-0 teams, I'd be pretty surprised. That tells me two things: 

 


1) These two teams are insanely good, and despite this being matchup #3, I cannot wait to see it. 
2) This is probably the worst the NBA has EVER been in terms of talent diversity. Like, if this league were a country, it'd be Russia. And that's REALLY saying something considering the lopsided history of this league. That probably needs to be fixed (or it could just be a crazy coincidence that these two teams went super saiyan at the right time while the rest of the league was particularly down). 

 

This is either going to be the most insane finals we've ever seen, or someone is gonna go nuclear and sweep. 

 

 

 

Also, and this is kinda me just thinking out loud right now, but if you're a big free agent who's REALLY looking to win, is there any reason to sign with anyone who's not Golden State or Cleveland right now? I almost have a feeling this whole two headed superteam monster could actually get even WORSE in the upcoming years. If you REALLY want a ring (that being the motivating factor above the extra cash as these guys are already multi millionaires and cash is always gonna be king) why in the world would you ever even consider signing elsewhere? 

 

And we thought Sharks 7, Oilers 0 was lopsided 

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27 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

I don't know the NBA cap system all that well, so forgive my ignorance, but I feel like there has to be some workaround, no? Like, A guy could legitimately take the minimum or work a sign and trade to end up with one of those two? Maybe? I'm hearing a lot of talk about Melo going to the Cavs next year and it sounds it'd take some serious financial bamboozling and expiring contract'ing to get there, but it's still decently heavy talk, so... 

 

Again, just thinking out loud. 

Maybe the NBA would be better off if there were no free agency, or severely restrict player movement.

 

It goes against my "always side with the labor" stance, but something drastic needs to happen for the NBA to really have parity and make things more interesting.  Give each team the same amount to pay their players (for example, $90 million) and the team can divide that up however they choose, but all $90 million has to be dished out to the players.  Expand the rosters to 18 so you have a deep-enough pool, etc.

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I just saw the final score of Game 2... how often do you see a 1 seed get manhandled like that?!?

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1 hour ago, HedleyLamarr said:

Maybe the NBA would be better off if there were no free agency, or severely restrict player movement.

 

It goes against my "always side with the labor" stance, but something drastic needs to happen for the NBA to really have parity and make things more interesting.  Give each team the same amount to pay their players (for example, $90 million) and the team can divide that up however they choose, but all $90 million has to be dished out to the players.  Expand the rosters to 18 so you have a deep-enough pool, etc.

 

Its an interesting thought, but it'll never happen. There's already instability between the union and the owners, and taking away choice from the players sure ain't gonna help that. Also, that would probably stagnate the league pretty badly. The fans and players would probably both suffer if that happened.

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41 minutes ago, Seadragon76 said:

I just saw the final score of Game 2... how often do you see a 1 seed get manhandled like that?!?

Spurs beat Miami in games 4&5 of the 2014 Finals by 31 and 27 respectively. Game 4 was in Miami.

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1 hour ago, HedleyLamarr said:

Maybe the NBA would be better off if there were no free agency, or severely restrict player movement.

 

It goes against my "always side with the labor" stance, but something drastic needs to happen for the NBA to really have parity and make things more interesting.  Give each team the same amount to pay their players (for example, $90 million) and the team can divide that up however they choose, but all $90 million has to be dished out to the players.  Expand the rosters to 18 so you have a deep-enough pool, etc.

 

9 minutes ago, Bucfan56 said:

 

Its an interesting thought, but it'll never happen. There's already instability between the union and the owners, and taking away choice from the players sure ain't gonna help that. Also, that would probably stagnate the league pretty badly. The fans and players would probably both suffer if that happened.

If you don't have free agency, you best not have a draft if you don't want to spend years in court.

It's antitrust.

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1 hour ago, HedleyLamarr said:

Maybe the NBA would be better off if there were no free agency, or severely restrict player movement.

 

It goes against my "always side with the labor" stance, but something drastic needs to happen for the NBA to really have parity and make things more interesting.  Give each team the same amount to pay their players (for example, $90 million) and the team can divide that up however they choose, but all $90 million has to be dished out to the players.  Expand the rosters to 18 so you have a deep-enough pool, etc.

Your plan would basically make the NBA the NFL as to fulfill your plan, no guaranteed contracts as that's the only way you could have a $90M cap with some the current CBA rules.

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15 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

Spurs beat Miami in games 4&5 of the 2014 Finals by 31 and 27 respectively. Game 4 was in Miami.

 

The Bulls beat the Jazz 96-54 in 1998. Blowouts happen.

 

A few things to note:

 

- The 2011 CBA hit the Thunder especially hard, forcing the Thunder to pay Kevin Durant more without any negotiation, and essentially led to Harden being traded away. The Thunder could have just paid the tax as Cleveland will, but they also had some misfortune imparted by the leage. Brian Windhorst explained it on a podcast last year, and it's complicated, but totally worth a read.

 

- In 2012, the Warriors signed Steph Curry to a 4-year, $44 million deal that took effect in 2013 and expires this year. He only signed this low a deal because of ill-timed ankle problems. If he signs anywhere near his actual value (he's the fourth-highest paid player on the team and was the sixth-highest paid after the 2015 season), maybe there isn't as much room to sign Draymond to his deal.

 

- The room was made for Durant in large part because of a one- (or maybe two) time major jump in the salary cap due to increased TV rights. Everybody's cap went up, and lots of teams had money for Durant. The Warriors were only there because of A.) the Steph Curry discount and B.) the cap jump. It was well-timed luck.

 

- LeBron James is the best player in the universe and there hasn't been a player so singularly important since Michael Jordan. At the same time, the team's non-LBJ core (Thompson, Love, Irving, Smith) all signed long-term deals through 2020 before the cap jump, so they're all ultimately cap-friendly deals.

 

- The Nets bet big on Pierce/Garnett/Williams and blew it.

 

- The Spurs have the best scouting and player development staff in the league, and they're a Zaza Pachulia hit away from being tied or even up 2 on the Warriors in their series. That said, the Warriors have had incredible injury luck over the past few playoffs, often playing their opponents at below strength.

 

All that to say that while it all feels dire, what we're really experiencing is the best player continuing to be the best player, while the best team has had incredible, unplannable luck that has increased their fortunes and decreased the fortunes of those around them.

 

Because individual players are so important, the NBA will always have a few teams concentrated at the top. This is true since the days of the Celtics. But players get injured. They get old. Contracts run out, and then you've got teams like the Lakers who hit rock bottom. It happened to the Cavs just a few years ago. It'll happen to the Warriors again too.

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I'd say the Celtics are frauds, but we'd probably be saying the same thing about the Wizards had they made it to round 3

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I understand these playoffs have objectively boring, but I, for one, will always enjoy watching the Celtics get absolutely demolished. I could watch the first half of Game 2 for the whole summer and not get tired of it. Sorry, not sorry. I can't help it, it's the Lakers fan in me.

 

 

I must add this though: I have mad respect for the Celtics fans who stayed for all of that beating. Major props. Not many fanbases would stick around that long and begin a "Let's Go *insert team*!" when you're down 50 late in the game.

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