#ConceptLeagues

New Helmet enters the NFL

137 posts in this topic

Jesus Christ, can't these people just let us enjoy the game as it is?

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6 hours ago, Pabig said:

Jesus Christ, can't these people just let us enjoy the game as it is?

 

No. Because "the game as it is" does great damage to the people who play it, and those who profit off the game aren't being honest about that. 

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15 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

I'll really need to see some evidence to support that claim. 

The evidence is in the fact that concussions result from the brain smacking against the skull.. That happens due to abrupt stops or extreme changes-of-direction.. Anything that slows the abrupt stops and minimizes the angles of deflection that cause change of direction will absolutely help the situation.. That's simple logic.. 

Also, putting some sort of advanced technology in the forehead pad would help as well.. As I mentioned previously, in most current models, it's essentially the same technology from the 90's.

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6 hours ago, WavePunter said:

The evidence is in the fact that concussions result from the brain smacking against the skull.. That happens due to abrupt stops or extreme changes-of-direction.. Anything that slows the abrupt stops and minimizes the angles of deflection that cause change of direction will absolutely help the situation.. That's simple logic..

 

That's not how logic works.  

 

Or evidence.  

 

 

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On 5/28/2017 at 9:53 AM, BringBackTheVet said:

Maybe if the playing surface was "springy" like a wrestling ring then heads wouldn't bang so hard against the turf.  While we're at it, add ropes around the field so guys can spring off of them to stay in bounds and make plays. Oh, and start each game with a bell.

 

I would honestly argue that concussions are an even bigger issue in pro wrestling.

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18 minutes ago, C-Squared said:

 

I would honestly argue that concussions are an even bigger issue in pro wrestling.

 

If that's the case I'll eat my hat. 

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At least in football, you have the opportunity to avoid contact. Sub-concussive impacts are a virtual guarantee in every pro wrestling match. The ring isn't as springy as you would expect. Add to that the total lack of healthcare in the business and you have a recipe for disaster.

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34 minutes ago, C-Squared said:

At least in football, you have the opportunity to avoid contact. Sub-concussive impacts are a virtual guarantee in every pro wrestling match. The ring isn't as springy as you would expect. Add to that the total lack of healthcare in the business and you have a recipe for disaster.

That's not true, in every sport there is contact. You might be able to avoid collisions but at that point for football anyways you are taking away something that makes football what it is and bastardizing it to basically flag football. The only thing you can do is continue to improve helmet technology to improve protection of players and teach proper tackling techniques and fine and penalize players that do dangerous acts, but accidents will happen, but they happen in all sports.

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4 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

That's not how logic works.  

 

Or evidence.  

 

 

i'm not sure what you mean, but that seems to be pretty much exactly how logic works.. at least as far as i know..

but, if an advance in helmet technology decreases impacts by - let's say 5% - then any impacts that cross the "concussion" threshold by 2-3% are now 2-3% below that threshold - resulting in sub-concussive impact, rather than full-blown cocussion.. and each sub-concussive impact is also reduced by 5%, resulting in 5% less damage per impact (including any "non-damaging" impacts, and turning lower-end sub-concussive impacts into non-damaging impacts).. and assuming the 5% reduction is fairly consistent across the board for all impacts (which i realize is entirely theoretical and holds no validity or argumental value, but i just arbitrarily chose it for demonstration purposes, so just work with me on it..), then the benefit and impact-reduction would be greater for the larger impacts (if all impacts could be "rated" on a scale from 0-100 on a severity scale, then 5% of an "80" impact would reduce the impact by 4 to "76", while it would only reduce a "20" impact by 1 to "19").. 

while i don't have any "hard evidence" to support my theory, i do have some experience as a player, coach, and equipment manager, and i've noticed differences and issues in everything from padding technology to paint finishes, and i think i'm pretty honest and fair in my assessment.. i work closely with our Riddell and Schutt reps, handle helmets from Riddell (7 different models), Schutt (5 different models), Rawlings (2 different models), & Xenith (1 model), and try to identify consistencies and issues across all our helmets, and i've worked with multiple finishes and notied issues there as well..

i have a few opinions and ideas that i think would improve helmets immediately without really advancing the technology (putting the newer technology in the front "forehead" pad would be an example of 1 idea).. and i agree that it won't ever be perfect, but i absolutely think the situation can be improved upon and ultimately gotten "under control"

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On 5/17/2017 at 7:34 PM, Gothamite said:

It's mind-boggling to me how this even raises to the level of news. Everyone knows longtime NFL players(outside kickers) have had many concussions, and I didn't know models were also certified doctors. Tom Brady's had a great life thanks to football, and even those retired players having problems now nearly always say they'd do it all again. One important fact left out of this sensational story is the reality that Brady has given himself countless subconcussive hits since high school by bashing his head against teammates. Of course, that's not football's fault, but it simply doesn't fit the false narrative. Lots of lazy sportswriting on the web, some of which by people with an agenda, or with little journalistic training. 

 

We also have to get past this notion of a safest form of football, that will occur when the Indy 500 has 70mph laps, This problem will be resolved, lowering the concussion rate, while keeping the essence of the sport. This is a voluntary activity, which on balance, has been beneficial to society. 

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51 minutes ago, WavePunter said:

while i don't have any "hard evidence" to support my theory

 

Indeed.   But that's what I'm waiting for before I accept any claims from manufacturers with a product to sell. 

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4 minutes ago, Gold Pinstripes said:

It's mind-boggling to me how this even raises to the level of news. Everyone knows longtime NFL players(outside kickers) have had many concussions, and I didn't know models were also certified doctors. Tom Brady's had a great life thanks to football, and even those retired players having problems now nearly always say they'd do it all again. One important fact left out of this sensational story is the reality that Brady has given himself countless subconcussive hits since high school by bashing his head against teammates. Of course, that's not football's fault, but it simply doesn't fit the false narrative. 

 

What "false narrative" would that be, then?

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oh please let his response contain the term "War on Football" 

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On 5/28/2017 at 2:42 PM, Gothamite said:

 

Concussions are not the problem. When you hear anyone talk about concussion, you know they're trying to distract you from the real issue.  

 

The problem is the small sub-concussive hits that occur on every single down. Whenever a player collides with another player or with the ground.  No helmet can prevent those, only rule changes.

 

The NFL would love for concussions to be the biggest problem. 

Depending on who those people are.  If it's the NFL, then yeah, it's a deflection.  If it's a common fan, then they are just not caught up on the times; which is just fine with the powers-that-be.

 

It's starting to look like there is absolutely no way that equipment can make the game appreciably safer for a player's long-term health.  If anything, it's going to provide a false sense of security, which I am sure has been an issue dating back decades.  These guys are so wrapped up in armor that it makes them feel invincible.

 

Football's not safe and never will be.  Hopefully one day the coverage will be less about concussions and more about the breath of what causes these problems.  For example, I read once and have not seen since, the suggestion that CTE can come from many instances of "neck-snapping" action that results from text-book clean hits with arms wrapped around the waist.  I won't even pretend to know whether that's true...was it debunked?  Or is it just not the kind of thing we're interested in?

 

If there world was a better place, we (including the NFL) would be working toward full information and transparency (because nobody's at full info yet).  And guess what, most fans would still watch and most players would still play. There would be a couple of more Chris Borlands and maybe the Barry Sanders career would be more common than the Jerry Rice career, but we'd still have our faceless, helmeted, padded warriors every Sunday.

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1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

 

Indeed.   But that's what I'm waiting for before I accept any claims from manufacturers with a product to sell. 

I don't know that any "hard evidence" will ever exist.. There are too many factors to account for to do any type of definitive testing..

I haven't given you a single word from any manufacturer.. I've only provided you with details from my personal experience.. 

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As an aside, I don't think you're ever going to eliminate concussions in the NFL with equipment. Unless of course you go through the effort to create some kind of airbag inside a person's head to keep the person's brain from smashing into the side of their skull, which as you can imagine would come with it's own host of problems (good luck being the first guy to test that).  It's always going to be about lessening them to some sort of acceptable degree through the use of equipment improvements.  I think this new helmet might be a step towards that. 

 

Other than that, you're going to have to wait until the robots start playing football. [insert Peyton Manning joke here]

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4 hours ago, OnWis97 said:
On 5/28/2017 at 3:42 PM, Gothamite said:

Convussions are not the problem. When you hear anyone talk about concussion, you know they're trying to distract you from the real issue.  

 

The problem is the small sub-concussive hits that occur on every single down. Whenever a player colllides with another player or with the ground.  No helmet can prevent those, only rule changes.

 

The NFL would love for concussions to be the biggest problem. 

 

Depending on who those people are.  If it's the NFL, then yeah, it's a deflection.  If it's a common fan, then they are just not caught up on the times; which is just fine with the powers-that-be.

 

Fair enough.  Or they've bought the spin of those with a financial interest.

 

4 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

It's starting to look like there is absolutely no way that equipment can make the game appreciably safer for a player's long-term health.  If anything, it's going to provide a false sense of security, which I am sure has been an issue dating back decades.  These guys are so wrapped up in armor that it makes them feel invincible.

 

I think you're absolutely correct here.  Which is why I've been saying for years that less equipment, not more or better equipment, is the only real long-term solution.

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3 hours ago, WavePunter said:

I don't know that any "hard evidence" will ever exist.. There are too many factors to account for to do any type of definitive testing..

 

Wow.  That's really something.

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