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sam the man

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2 hours ago, kroywen said:

 

I could see an Inland Empire location working out well in AAA. How do the territorial rights play out in Southern California? I know that Los Angeles, Ventura, and Orange Counties are shared territory between the Dodgers and Angels - do San Bernardino or Riverside fall into either team's territory? It doesn't seem to, based on this document via SABR, but that's also from the early 90s, and may not be comprehensive anyway.

 

The other thing with the Inland Empire is that there have been periodic rumblings of the Angels considering it as a future ballpark location. As of February, it sounds like they're committed to renovating Angel Stadium, but I'm sure they'd like to keep their options open around the region, in case negotiations with Anaheim fall through. They may not be keen on a AAA team relocating to the Inland Empire, especially if it results in a new or renovated MiL ballpark.

But if the Dodgers decided to set up shop, in SB county, would the Angels have any ability to stop it?

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3 hours ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

But if the Dodgers decided to set up shop, in SB county, would the Angels have any ability to stop it?

 

Depends on how the territorial rights are allotted. If it is part of Dodgers territory, but not Angels territory, then they wouldn't have any power to stop it. Same goes if SB County isn't part of either team's territory.

 

If SB County is part of both teams' territory, though, then the Angels would be able to unilaterally block the Dodgers from moving an MiL team there (likewise, the Dodgers could block the Angels from doing the same).

 

A similar situation actually happened in New York City, where both the Yankees and the Mets both had long-standing interest in setting up minor league affiliates in the outer boroughs or nearby suburbs.  However, the two teams were able to block each other from doing so, and neither team wanted to see their crosstown rivals gain an MiL foothold in the city. Finally, prior to 2001, the two teams agreed to establish Short Season A affiliates in the city concurrently, hence the creation of the Staten Island Yankees and Brooklyn Cyclones (well, technically, the Cyclones played as the "Queens Kings" at St. John's University in their first season, while construction of MCU Park was going on). It was the only way to set up MiL teams in the city - both teams had to benefit by having affiliates there.

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22 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Depends - is there a place for them to go?

They can come to New Orleans once Lou Schwechheimer and Cookie Rojas complete their grand scheme to move the Zephyrs/Baby Cakes franchise to Havana once the Zephyr Field lease is up... 

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13 hours ago, kroywen said:

 

Depends on how the territorial rights are allotted. If it is part of Dodgers territory, but not Angels territory, then they wouldn't have any power to stop it. Same goes if SB County isn't part of either team's territory.

 

If SB County is part of both teams' territory, though, then the Angels would be able to unilaterally block the Dodgers from moving an MiL team there (likewise, the Dodgers could block the Angels from doing the same).

 

Both the Dodgers and Angels already have set up shop in the Inland Empire via their California League Single-A teams (Rancho Cucamonga and Inland Empire/San Bernardino, respectively). If a Triple-A team were to relocate to the Inland Empire, the only issue would be how it would interact with the rest of the California League teams, since they have a huge presence in the Inland Empire region.

 

However, if an Inland Empire Triple-A team were to set up shop, their best bet would be Ontario, CA. You already have the Regin there and there's sufficient plots of land near Citizen's Business Bank Arena to get a stadium built.  

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On the topic of Vegas, if the relocation of Colorado Springs to San Antonio happens, could Colorado Springs be a viable market again?  I do know the venue situation for the Sky Sox but anything is better than the Vegas craphole stadium.

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San Antonio won't happen unless the city builds a stadium. Which doesn't look likely. Which is why the Sky Sox decided instead to put millions into ballpark upgrades in Colorado Springs.  So that tends to take both cities off the list of options for a Vegas relocation.  

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On 25.5.2017 at 7:22 PM, Gothamite said:

 

Perhaps.  But that's not how affiliation agreements work.

 

What the Mets should be doing is looking for a AA franchise they can buy, either a share or outright.  That would force somebody else to partner with Vegas.

 

Which AAA franchieses in the IL are possibly available?

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2 hours ago, sam the man said:

Which AAA franchieses in the IL are possibly available?

 

None until the end of next season - in an attempt to avoid an ongoing free-for-all, affiliation agreements come due at the end of every even-numbered season, and can be signed for either two or four years.  The Mets just re-upped with Vegas, so they're stuck there this year and next.  

 

And even then, it might be tough. There will be some AAA clubs under contract for another two years beyond that.  Plus any MLB clubs who don't intend to renew with their current affiliates in 2018 will be negotiating with others to ensure they don't get stuck.

 

It's a huge game of musical chairs, and the Mets keep getting left standing in Las Vegas when the music stops.  

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I follow this link for the affiliation swaps, keep in mind changes cannot be made until after the 2018 season is complete and the current affiliate has a specific period of time to renegotiate before other teams can swoop in.

 

http://ballparkdigest.com/200905261902/minor-league-baseball/news/affiliate-dance-2012

 

As for possibly available IL locations, the only ones I could even see possible change on in 2018 would be Syracuse or Rochester.  Everyone else seems to be content with their affiliates(including historically long term affiliates)or in a commitment until 2020.  Vegas is usually the last AAA man standing, and if it's an east coast team it makes sense that it's one of the big market guys.

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Don't newer AAA stadiums have a capacity of at least 10,000? Maybe there are current stadiums that could be expanded.

 

If they could expand Campbell's Field in New Jersey (about 7,000), maybe that would be a viable option. It's only home to a couple college teams, and even before then was only host to an independent team. It's about a 2-hour drive to New York, but sits right in the I-95 corridor serving Philly and Washington, so it's not a bad location if there are emergency call-ups.

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Are you proposing buying the Las Vegas franchise and moving it to New Jersey?  

Because you cant just add AAA clubs; the system requires that there is one MLB club for each AAA club.   30 teams combined in the IL and PCL, no more and no less. 

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There is no way that the Phillies would ever allow a minor league team, other than a Phillies affiliate under their own ownership, take residence in Campbell's Field. That's part of Phillies territory, and only a Phillies' owned-and-operated affiliate would ever be considered for something within Phillies' territory. (And even then, the Phils may not want a minor league team drawing potential fans away from CBP operating directly across the river from them.)

 

The Phillies are signed through 2020 with Lehigh Valley at the AAA level, and are highly likely to re-up that contract at that time (it's a nearby, convenient location for their AAA team, with a new ballpark). They're partial owners of Reading at the AA level, so no way they're changing AA affiliates. The only possible affiliation for Camden would be Short Season A with the Phillies, as their Williamsport contract is up after 2018.

 

There's a reason independent baseball flourishes in the Northeast - it's usually the only viable way to set up teams in mid-size cities or suburbs within major metropolitan areas here. Major league teams control most of the (heavily populated) territory here, so affiliated MiL teams can't be set up in most areas. The Atlantic League and Can-Am League's bread-and-butter are mid-sized cities and suburban areas 20-30 miles outside of the Northeast's major cities for that reason (Camden was a prime example of that).

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3 hours ago, slapshot said:

Don't newer AAA stadiums have a capacity of at least 10,000? Maybe there are current stadiums that could be expanded.

 

If they could expand Campbell's Field in New Jersey (about 7,000), maybe that would be a viable option. It's only home to a couple college teams, and even before then was only host to an independent team. It's about a 2-hour drive to New York, but sits right in the I-95 corridor serving Philly and Washington, so it's not a bad location if there are emergency call-ups.

I live 5 minutes from Camden. Even with capacity expansion, I don't see Camden as a viable AAA market. Maybe an A-level market.

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I wouldn't count on Portland either especially with how the Beavers left. Hillsboro does have the Short-A Hops and they seem to be doing well. 

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5 minutes ago, Wings said:

I wouldn't count on Portland either especially with how the Beavers left. Hillsboro does have the Short-A Hops and they seem to be doing well. 

 

I really wish the Hops were a Brewers affiliate, if only for the name connection.

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On 5/29/2017 at 10:50 PM, sam the man said:

 

Which AAA franchieses in the IL are possibly available?

 

Which AAA-IL franchises are not OWNED, completely or partialy by a ML club? 

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On 5/29/2017 at 5:11 PM, AstroBull21 said:

I follow this link for the affiliation swaps, keep in mind changes cannot be made until after the 2018 season is complete and the current affiliate has a specific period of time to renegotiate before other teams can swoop in.

 

http://ballparkdigest.com/200905261902/minor-league-baseball/news/affiliate-dance-2012

 

As for possibly available IL locations, the only ones I could even see possible change on in 2018 would be Syracuse or Rochester.  Everyone else seems to be content with their affiliates(including historically long term affiliates)or in a commitment until 2020.  Vegas is usually the last AAA man standing, and if it's an east coast team it makes sense that it's one of the big market guys.

 

You look at the list, and there are so many long standing pairings that any change in high minor affiliates seems almost seismic. And certain spots are the ones no one wants as an affiliate if they can help it. Vegas, Beloit, damn near the whole Cal League (from the way it was talked about on the old Up and In Podcast).

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1 hour ago, sam the man said:

Which AAA-IL franchises are not OWNED, completely or partialy by a ML club? 

 

Even some of those that aren't are still off the table, since they're under contract for another year. 

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What is the stadium at Disney World like? Would Orlando/Kissimmee be a viable location for a AAA team? I get travel would be a bit of a pain but it's a large market and with the amount of tourists you'd get that novelty factor. 

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42 minutes ago, Breakwood said:

What is the stadium at Disney World like? Would Orlando/Kissimmee be a viable location for a AAA team? I get travel would be a bit of a pain but it's a large market and with the amount of tourists you'd get that novelty factor. 

 

9,500 capacity, and pretty nice in design, so it's do-able for AAA, but it's already failed at the AA level. The old Orlando Rays moved there from old Tinker Field in 2000, but they still couldn't draw flies-- about 1,000 fans a game  and last in the league. Following the 2003 season, the franchise broke a 10-year lease at Disney after just four years and moved to Montgomery, here they are now the Biscuits.

 

 

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