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MLB changes 2018?

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1 hour ago, OnWis97 said:
  • Twins: Narrow the look...either go to the throwback (and design road and alts to match) or stop wearing it.  Use the gold everywhere or not at all. 

As a Twins fan, I want the gold canned.  I also want the red hats and jerseys canned.

As a fellow Twins fan, you and I share completely divergent views on this. 

  • Gold: I really disliked the gold at first, but I've come to love it. And I love that it's only at home to match with Target Field's sandstone features. It doesn't bother me one iota that it doesn't appear on the road uniforms. 
  • Red: The red hats are gorgeous. I own one and it's easily my favorite Twins hat. And the red alternate jerseys are among the best-looking in baseball. They're bright, they're simple, they pair perfectly with the red hat and white pants. I just love them.
  • Throwback: The '60s-era throwbacks are gorgeous. And while I once harbored a hope the Twins would revert to that as their primary look, I've come around on the idea of having a throwback permanently in the regular uniform rotation. If it works in the NBA, I see no reason why it couldn't become a standard for MLB. 
  • The blue alternates: I'd be happy if the Twins ditched the blue road alternates. This look — with the red piping — has run its course. I'd be fine if they only wore their road grays. I'd even entertain the concept of a navy version of  red home alternate, just to see how it looks. (A road version of the throwbacks would be cool, too.) But definitely, no gold on the road. Keep it at home, let the road unis stay the stark navy, red and gray. 

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1 hour ago, CitizenTino said:

 

THIS. I often wonder how many "keep Wahoo" fans would finally flip if they were given an alternative with some personality. In the past 30 years, the only other options have been a block C or script I.

Talk about a design challenge. How do you design an alternative for the Indians "with some personality" that doesn't somehow incorporate Native American iconography? It's an impossible task, if you ask me.  

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2 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

The affinity for the blue and yellow BiG has been apparent at Miller Park for some time.  I have not been there for a few years, so I'm not sure how the vivid BiG hat is selling vs. the drab BiG hat, i.e., I have not had the opportunity to see whether the new-color BiG is being embraced the way the old-school one is.  I wonder whether those sales could influence the team.  

 

 

I've seen very few people with the navy BiG caps and I wouldn't expect these to ever reach the popularity of the royal ones.  I really do believe most people still have a huge attachment to the old colors and that does influence what apparel they purchase.

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1 hour ago, VDizzle12 said:

 

I don't understand why they need to pick. They used a combination of both for at least a decade starting in 1946. It's the best of both worlds. 

The script Cleveland was horrible and I never want to see that come back. Same with the block Indians cream jersey.

 

al_1946_cleveland_01.gifal_1957_cleveland_01.gif

 

I really like the current uniforms, but I'd make a few tweaks

- Replace Wahoo on all of the caps with the C (all navy and all red options w/no outlines on the logos) 

- Keep the chief on the sleeves (either wahoo or a new less cartoony logo)

- Bring back a red alt

- Always wear red socks with the navy alts

 

I agree wholeheartedly that they can keep both and that the script Cleveland looked bad. The look we have now fairly resembles the 1948 look, which looks great to me. The only challenge is Wahoo. If not for Wahoo/the Indians name in general, this team would probably be lauded as one of the best looks in the MLB right now. It's classic, it's consistent. But it's also... kinda racist.

 

So, my tweaks:

-replace Wahoo on the home cap w/ the cursive I

-add a white outline to the block C for the road cap

-2 caps only and 2 batting helmets, using matte now

-continue focusing red at home and navy on road to go w/ the cursive and block looks

-MAYBE add a red alt but we're fine with the 3 we have now

-replace Wahoo on the sleeve w/ either:

1) a C or an I depending on home or road jersey

2) a placeholder roundel logo w/ maybe the I on top of the C

3) a feather to mitigate the racial issue a bit

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...oh and...

-eventually change the name, but keep the basic uniform template

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5 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

Yeah 2019 if not later. The sale hasn't gone through, hasn't even been voted on by the other owners. All that's really happened is Jeffrey Loria agreeing to sell to the Bruce Sherman-Derek Jeter group and I heard just a few days ago that the group may even be shorter on the finances than expected. There is still a ways to go. The change in ownership could be farther away than many realize. 

 

Edit: Oh wait, it's you. I thought you knew this stuff man lol 

 

I figured as much but I wasn't 100% sure. I also haven't exactly been paying close attention to the team these last few months. I haven't been on MB since like June lol

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Would love to see the Brewers go royal blue and yellow faux back, similar to the Jays redesign a few years back. No team uses these colors in the MLB full time anymore. Seattle does as an alternate I think that's about it.

 

If they want to keep the current colors look I'm ok with that too, but yes getting rid of the tails, times new roman numerals, and just picking a consistent look instead of a mish mash they have now.

 

My personal dream would be a modern update to the early 70s uniforms. Love the block M :) 

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6 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

Teams that need to do something:

  • Cleveland: Pick a lane on the cursive vs. block look.  (and on Wahoo)

 

I think it's more important to define their color palette. I like the block Cleveland, but the navy letters and numbers on the road have to go. If Wahoo is finally gone, so be it, but they need a better primary than a single-layer block C.

 

I'd like the Indians to use a deep red (blood red?) and midnight navy, or Astro navy, or whatever we call the darkest of the navy blues baseball uses. Navy crown, red bills, red lettering outlined in navy, navy piping, red undershirts, red belts, navy blue socks, red shoes.

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6 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

The affinity for the blue and yellow BiG has been apparent at Miller Park for some time.  I have not been there for a few years, so I'm not sure how the vivid BiG hat is selling vs. the drab BiG hat, i.e., I have not had the opportunity to see whether the new-color BiG is being embraced the way the old-school one is.  I wonder whether those sales could influence the team.  

 

I don't think the dark/drab color trend in sports is going away any time soon, though.  But if your perception is correct, maybe they'll realize it's about the colors as well as the logo.  On the other hand, maybe they recognize that they're selling plenty of each.  I think that carries more wait than brand cohesion nowadays.

 

8 hours ago, SilverBullet1929 said:

I definitely feel like the Brewers this year have stuck to the current primary look more often and have used both BiG looks less this year. So if anything I'd question if they're ever gonna go away from the primary look, at least not any time soon. It at least seems to be a big difference from 2016 when they seemingly mostly wore the navy and yellow BiG and the current primary look seemed more like the occasional alternate. 

 

8 hours ago, mjd77 said:

 

IMO this is exactly what the problem is.  The powers that be knew the fans wanted the BiG back so instead of doing a fauxback rebrand like they should have they just shoehorned it into the current look and now they have an incoherent mess and basically 3 different color schemes.  I'm not sure if the fans are indifferent towards the current set or not but what I do know is every time I'm at Miller Park I swear it's 75% royal/yellow/powder blue and 25% current stuff. Another overall observation I've had is they've worn the navy BiG alternate jersey and cap way less this season than they did last year.

 

 

Has there been any recent comments from the Brewers themselves about the uniforms? Any real speculation or discussions in Milwaukee? Seems like a no-brainer here, but we've seen how oblivious teams can be sometimes.

 

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I'm convinced the Indians could make enough changes to their set so that they ditch the offensive imagery, but still keep their identity basically intact. Doing nothing but dropping Wahoo for that awful block C is a terrible move because first off it's a trash logo, but second it just kind of puts a bandaid on the situation. I'm obviously not the key demographic here so my opinion doesn't really matter, but I almost see that as being somewhat offensive, too. I kind of hope they can find a way to keep some connection to an actual Native American Indian rather than just becoming the Cleveland Crappy Looking Block C's that have no real connection to the name. I think they can put out a set that still at least evokes the mascot while still being tasteful. The Feather CI logo is really the best way to do that, IMO. 

 

Or, is the name "Indians" itself enough of a sore spot to just start over? Personally, I hope not, because I think of the totality of the indigenous people of America and in my mind they're totally awesome. They lived off of the land better than anyone, had a fantastic culture that respected their surroundings, and would absolutely kick your ass if they needed to. They were a really noble people. Is it offensive to celebrate that? Or, is our connection to them (which has been so poor since the beginning) prevent that? 

 

I wish we could find better ways to celebrate the cultures of our past as a nation. We should be able to understand our place with/alongside them (and our place in their destruction) enough to learn from our past. Maybe perpetuating that by continuing to name a baseball team after them isn't the right way to do that, though. But, I still think it has the potential to be positive. It's tricky, but we should be smart enough to find a common ground, right? 

 

 

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5 hours ago, gosioux76 said:

Talk about a design challenge. How do you design an alternative for the Indians "with some personality" that doesn't somehow incorporate Native American iconography? It's an impossible task, if you ask me.  

The Brewers' BiG has nothing at all to do with beer or the making thereof.

It's possible.

Heck, maybe they can go the Golden State Warriors route and design a logo based on a Cleveland landmark...as long as it isn't this one. Image result for cleveland rubber stamp

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26 minutes ago, daveindc said:

Matte helmets looked glorious this season. All teams should just go ahead and make the switch for '18.

 

 

Disagree. While some dont look *bad*, the majority of teams downgraded their looks.

Especially teams with all black helmets. Keep em shiny

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1 hour ago, daveindc said:

 

 

 

 

Has there been any recent comments from the Brewers themselves about the uniforms? Any real speculation or discussions in Milwaukee? Seems like a no-brainer here, but we've seen how oblivious teams can be sometimes.

 

 

Nothing at all.  The organization seems completely oblivious to their current mess of an identity.  In a year or 2 when the next generation of top prospects comes up together from our rebuild, that would be the ideal time for a freshened up identity.  It might make sense that this coincides with the Under Armour takeover.  Could be the time other teams freshen things up as well.

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As others have mentioned, I don't think we'll see many significant overhauls until Under Armour takes over. That includes the Brewers, I think.

 

The one team I can see really doing a complete rebrand in 2018 are the Padres. And I have absolutely no clue what said rebrand would look like. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if that franchise changed their jersey every single season. Nothing would surprise me with them. (I'm only half-kidding.)

 

Given the political considerations, I also would not be surprised to see the Indians finally eliminate Wahoo this offseason. But it won't be accompanied by any other significant changes - I'm sure the team would like to do it as quietly and discreetly as possible.

 

The real wild card for 2019 are the Rangers. They're ripe for a rebrand, or at least some significant changes, but the question is whether they do it in 2019 when Under Armour takes over, or in 2020 when they open the new ballpark. I'd wait until 2020 if I were them - I generally think that rolling out a rebrand in the last year of a venue is a terribly stupid idea. 

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While it's easy to pick the Padres as the team we'd think will change stuff in 2018, I'm pretty positive when they announced the 2017 changes after the 2016 changes they made it sound like the Padres look would be more consistent from here on out. Many quotes made it sound like this is the look that they want the Padres to be for the foreseeable future. So despite their history of changing too much I feel like they're gonna stay the course for a while now. 

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22 hours ago, gosioux76 said:
23 hours ago, CitizenTino said:

I often wonder how many "keep Wahoo" fans would finally flip if they were given an alternative with some personality. In the past 30 years, the only other options have been a block C or script I.

Talk about a design challenge. How do you design an alternative for the Indians "with some personality" that doesn't somehow incorporate Native American iconography? It's an impossible task, if you ask me.  

 

It is not at all impossible to come up with a stylised C logo.  

 

I have said many times that I favour the mid-70s cap logo.

59c29b79aa868_frobinsonclevelandhat.jpg.6a4f6c54f5bae74f8259d706e6555d1a.jpg

 

But that is far from the only possibility.  They could tap into another period of their history and use the kind of C that they used in the mid-to-late 1920s:

59c29dd3aa422_1920sclevelandlogo.gif.08a216747c433bf4435123f48bbfd1b0.gif   Related image

 

 

Of course, they don't have to stick with past designs; they could create an entirely new one. 

For instance, they could go with a simple cursive C, similar to the one that the White Sox once used -- but styled better so it doesn't look like an E.


Image result for 1989 white sox cap

 

Or they could devise an Old-English-style cap logo, similar to the one used by the Chinese national team.

Image result for wbc china hat

 

This does not come close to exhausting the options on attractive cap logos based on the letter C.  There are any number of other possible designs.

I really hope that the team can come up with something creative, because the block C is terrible.  For a Sunday softball league it would be a bad logo; for a Major League team it is an embarassment.  

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Here's a change that will not be coming in 2018, but some time later.

 

Last week, Paul Lukas reported a contribution from a reader about tweet from A's executive Chris Giles that said that the team would be returning to kelly green.
 

 

To which Lukas says: "Maybe so, but I can tell you that it isn’t happening in 2018."

 

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32 minutes ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

 

It is not at all impossible to come up with a stylised C logo.  

 

I have said many times that I favour the mid-70s cap logo.

59c29b79aa868_frobinsonclevelandhat.jpg.6a4f6c54f5bae74f8259d706e6555d1a.jpg

 

But that is far from the only possibility.  They could tap into another period of their history and use the kind of C that they used in the mid-to-late 1920s:

59c29dd3aa422_1920sclevelandlogo.gif.08a216747c433bf4435123f48bbfd1b0.gif   Related image

 

 

Of course, they don't have to stick with past designs; they could create an entirely new one. 

For instance, they could go with a simple cursive C, similar to the one that the White Sox once used -- but styled better so it doesn't look like an E.


Image result for 1989 white sox cap

 

Or they could devise an Old-English-style cap logo, similar to the one used by the Chinese national team.

Image result for wbc china hat

 

This does not come close to exhausting the options on attractive cap logos based on the letter C.  There are any number of other possible designs.

I really hope that the team can come up with something creative, because the block C is terrible.  For a Sunday softball league it would be a bad logo; for a Major League team it is an embarassment.  


I love that mid-70s look.  Everything about it is badass.

8706a7a08eb7d94531ec08dee5a8cee9.jpgbaseball-cleveland-indians-oscar-gamble-before-game-vs-oakland-oh-picture-id84661863
Of course to be fair, Oscar Gamble could up the badass level of any uniform by 50%.

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So, I recognize that it's possible to come up with some unique, stylized "C." And I also recognize the Indians have, in their history, employed a variety of "C" logos of their own. But in every case, they've served as a companion mark to Chief Wahoo. Those "C" logos were never, at least as far as I recall, tasked with carrying the entire visual identity of a team called the "Indians." 

 

That's where the challenge lies. Eliminating Wahoo, as necessary as it may be, creates a really difficult branding challenge for the team with that name. 

 

I get why the Brewers may come up in this example. But the ball-in-glove had some Bernie Brewer companion mark somewhere in the club's periphery, whether it was on the uniforms or not. There was still SOMETHING there representing the club's name, even if it wasn't the primary mark. The Indians, I'd imagine, would run into trouble if they use any kind of Native American imagery. 

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