Gothamite

North American Pro Soccer 2018

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1 minute ago, McCarthy said:

 

We need to stop using "four major sports" and go to something like "first four" or whatever. Soccer will pass hockey at some point, though you're still not going to get 200,000 soccer fans to flood a city's downtown like what happened in DC last night anytime soon. At the same time soccer fans who get bent out of shape about it need to stop getting bent out of shape about it. It's A. a holdover from a previous time when it was true. B. everyone knows what you mean when you say it, and C. the other four leagues are indisputably the best leagues in their respective sports in the world while MLS is what? I don't know what the MLS is ranked worldwide, but it's definitely not the height of competition of that sport. If your team wins the MLS Cup it's most decidedly not the "world champion". The Capitals are the world champions. The 91 Redskins were the World Champions. The 2004 DC United team (had to look that up) were not the World Champions. 

 

I think we need to stop saying that, or at the very least be more specific.

 

Soccer may pass hockey, but MLS won't pass the NHL. MLS, to me, doesn't seem to be any closer to passing the NHL since the first time we said soccer will pass hockey. (There's a reason Men In Blazers jokes about Soccer being America's sport of the future since 1978). Even here in Southern California, the height of the Galaxy never put them over the Kings or Ducks, and even with the popular surge of LAFC, I don't think it's passing the Kings and Ducks. Now around here, Soccer on the whole? When you add in MLS, Liga MX, the USMNT, El Tri, the Premier League, La Liga, Champions League, oh yeah, definitely. Capital-S Soccer will (or has already) pass hockey.

 

But MLS alone, no. So yes, as you said McCarthy, everyone knows what you mean when you say "four major sports", and MLS superfans need to stop getting bent out of shape about it.

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18 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

 

I think we need to stop saying that, or at the very least be more specific.

 

Soccer may pass hockey, but MLS won't pass the NHL. MLS, to me, doesn't seem to be any closer to passing the NHL since the first time we said soccer will pass hockey. (There's a reason Men In Blazers jokes about Soccer being America's sport of the future since 1978). Even here in Southern California, the height of the Galaxy never put them over the Kings or Ducks, and even with the popular surge of LAFC, I don't think it's passing the Kings and Ducks. Now around here, Soccer on the whole? When you add in MLS, Liga MX, the USMNT, El Tri, the Premier League, La Liga, Champions League, oh yeah, definitely. Capital-S Soccer will (or has already) pass hockey.

 

But MLS alone, no. So yes, as you said McCarthy, everyone knows what you mean when you say "four major sports", and MLS superfans need to stop getting bent out of shape about it.

 

Here in Dallas, the Stars are a bigger deal that FC Dallas. 

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2 hours ago, McCarthy said:

 

We need to stop using "four major sports" and go to something like "first four" or whatever. Soccer will pass hockey at some point, though you're still not going to get 200,000 soccer fans to flood a city's downtown like what happened in DC last night anytime soon. At the same time soccer fans who get bent out of shape about it need to stop getting bent out of shape about it. It's A. a holdover from a previous time when it was true. B. everyone knows what you mean when you say it, and C. the other four leagues are indisputably the best leagues in their respective sports in the world while MLS is what? I don't know what the MLS is ranked worldwide, but it's definitely not the height of competition of that sport. If your team wins the MLS Cup it's most decidedly not the "world champion". The Capitals are the world champions. The 91 Redskins were the World Champions. The 2004 DC United team (had to look that up) were not the World Champions. 

You’re absolutely right. MLS is growing and has undoubtedly improved in 20-odd years, but it’s nowhere near soccer’s “Big 5” of domestic leagues (England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France). It’s probably in the second or third tier at least. And it’s really dumb that D.C. United fans are getting bent out of shape about this. Be happy for your city, for crying out loud. 

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1 hour ago, GDAWG said:

 

Here in Dallas, the Stars are a bigger deal that FC Dallas. 

I’m not sure that isn’t true anywhere that has an MLS and NHL team. Even in Seattle, where they’re crazy about the Sounders, I’m sure the new NHL team will surpass them in popularity when they come. 

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Soccer fans in America gotta chill with the inferiority complex.

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1 hour ago, Crabcake47 said:

I’m not sure that isn’t true anywhere that has an MLS and NHL team. Even in Seattle, where they’re crazy about the Sounders, I’m sure the new NHL team will surpass them in popularity when they come. 

I could see the Timbers surpassing the Trailblazers in Portland. Certain things would need to happen, but if any city were to have an MLS club knock off an established "Big 4" team in popularity it's Portland.

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2 hours ago, Red Wolf said:

Soccer fans in America gotta chill with the inferiority complex.

No, hockey fan is first in line for "needs to chill" and realize their niche while sharing brews with NASCAR fan.

 

Soccer fan just has slightly different tint of Rose colored glasses.

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40 minutes ago, 4_tattoos said:

I could see the Timbers surpassing the Trailblazers in Portland. Certain things would need to happen, but if any city were to have an MLS club knock off an established "Big 4" team in popularity it's Portland.

If the Blazers became constantly horrible in the next few years which I could see happening. Dame & CJ leaving and Paul Allen becoming more disinterested would definitely be contributors. All this talk of MLB to Portland is still a pipe dream in my book even with Russell Wilson being interested. The topic always comes up every few years. 

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55 minutes ago, 4_tattoos said:

I could see the Timbers surpassing the Trailblazers in Portland. Certain things would need to happen, but if any city were to have an MLS club knock off an established "Big 4" team in popularity it's Portland.

The Sounders have surpassed the Mariners meanwhile Orlando seems to be witnessing a race to the bottom with the Magic and Orlando City.

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49 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

No, hockey fan is first in line for "needs to chill" and realize their niche while sharing brews with NASCAR fan.

 

Soccer fan just has slightly different tint of Rose colored glasses.

Yeah, but us soccer fans also get to hear the inferiority complex of other soccer fans complaining because there's no pro/rel and MLS is an evil monopoly holding back East Mississippi United from their destiny of rising to the top flight and winning it all. 

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I love how North American soccer is supposed to automatically have pro/rel because the rest of the world has it.

The rest of the world has it in every other sport, too.  Soccer won't have it until there are at least an equal amount of second tier teams with facilities of 15K+ or more.

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1 hour ago, dfwabel said:

The Sounders have surpassed the Mariners meanwhile Orlando seems to be witnessing a race to the bottom with the Magic and Orlando City.

 

Not now that the Mariners are in first place and the Sounders are apparently taking the season off.

 

The Seahawks' championship parade was something like 700,000 people. The Sounders' championship parade was a fraction of that. And that's okay!

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13 hours ago, Wings said:

If the Blazers became constantly horrible in the next few years which I could see happening. Dame & CJ leaving and Paul Allen becoming more disinterested would definitely be contributors. All this talk of MLB to Portland is still a pipe dream in my book even with Russell Wilson being interested. The topic always comes up every few years. 

Maybe it's because I e burned out on the NBA long ago and I've never cared for the Blazers, but I'd argue that the Timbers are a bigger deal here. You wouldn't know it from listening to sports radio, but that's mostly because that medium is populated by meathead soccer-haters who refuse to give up ground on a sport they don't get. 

 

As for baseball, I'm confident in calling MLB to Portland an inevitability, and that was before Russell Wilson got involved. Yes, someone beats the drum for baseball every few years, but none have had the ear of the commissioner the way this effort has, particularly at a time when he's publicly discussing his desire for expansion. Certainly there are still questions to be answered, but when Manfred pulls the trigger on expansion, this Portland group will be far more organized and prepared for it than any other city. 

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16 hours ago, Crabcake47 said:

I’m not sure that isn’t true anywhere that has an MLS and NHL team. Even in Seattle, where they’re crazy about the Sounders, I’m sure the new NHL team will surpass them in popularity when they come. 

 

Does Atlanta count?

 

It's a funny debate, anyway, given how some of the more successful MLS markets overlap with successful NHL ones. Seems to me that MLB is the more direct competitor. And it's all moot as long as MLS television ratings remain infinitesimal. 

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21 hours ago, Needschat said:

I love how North American soccer is supposed to automatically have pro/rel because the rest of the world has it.

The rest of the world has it in every other sport, too.  Soccer won't have it until there are at least an equal amount of second tier teams with facilities of 15K+ or more.

 

I was thinking about this the other day, and I don't think MLS will ever go the pro/reg model. Unless the USL signs a contract with ESPN/NBC Sports and gets a huge payout from it and the MLS knows they are and they mutually agree to do a two level pro/reg system, and then go from there. The closest we'll get to a MLS/USL pro/reg relationship is the MLS picking USL markets to join the league.

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2 hours ago, WBeltz said:

 

I was thinking about this the other day, and I don't think MLS will ever go the pro/reg model. Unless the USL signs a contract with ESPN/NBC Sports and gets a huge payout from it and the MLS knows they are and they mutually agree to do a two level pro/reg system, and then go from there. The closest we'll get to a MLS/USL pro/reg relationship is the MLS picking USL markets to join the league.

 

Oh like Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, Minnesota, Nashville, and Cincinnati

 

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17 hours ago, Needschat said:

 

Oh like Portland, Seattle, Vancouver, Minnesota, Nashville, and Cincinnati

 

Dont forget Montreal. They moved up too.

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8 hours ago, Dilbert said:

Dont forget Montreal. They moved up too.

 

My CRAFT kicked in, thank you 

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On 6/9/2018 at 6:41 PM, WBeltz said:

pro/reg

 

Just because I see this so often, I'm calling it out; nothing personal against you.

 

It's promotion and relegation, or "pro/rel".

 

-----

 

Y'all've forgotten Orlando in your list.

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On 6/9/2018 at 9:41 PM, WBeltz said:

 

I was thinking about this the other day, and I don't think MLS will ever go the pro/reg model. Unless the USL signs a contract with ESPN/NBC Sports and gets a huge payout from it and the MLS knows they are and they mutually agree to do a two level pro/reg system, and then go from there. The closest we'll get to a MLS/USL pro/reg relationship is the MLS picking USL markets to join the league.

I keep saying it but "not this again". 

 

not to pick on this poster (because I think the post was actually more realistic than most I've seen about this topic) but.........how are you going to explain to a bunch of owners in MLS "hey, we're going to start pro/rel so your team that you paid millions for might not play in tier 1 next year if you suck"?

Especially those former USL/NASL markets?

Can you imagine Cincy gets into MLS and then right away gets relegated?

 

The only way I ever see it happening is if MLS makes an "MLS 2" and frankly, no one will like that because "it's not real pro/rel". 

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