Gothamite

North American Pro Soccer 2018

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On 6/14/2018 at 12:30 PM, MJWalker45 said:

The people that run North American leagues operate differently than in Europe and Asia, the same as American run companies run differently than European countries. We don't have to look the same as them just because they sell the same products as us. 

We got rid of countdown clocks and shootouts. What else do they want!? 

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The Philadelphia Union are now the proud owner of a 12-game US Open Cup unbeaten streak as they knock off the Red Bulls 2-1. Their last loss was 3-1 to Seattle in extra time in the 2014 final.

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Kind of surprised - I’m hearing from my Jersey friends that the Red Bulls didn’t prioritize the Cup this year as they have in years past. 

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1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

Kind of surprised - I’m hearing from my Jersey friends that the Red Bulls didn’t prioritize the Cup this year as they have in years past. 

Are they just saying that now because they lost and it's an easy excuse to make? Like when a recruit flips to a different team and then a bunch of people just say that they didn't even need or really want him anyway? 

 

Seems odd that they potentially wouldn't prioritize the Open Cup after all the talk last year about trying to win their first trophy (Supporters' Shield didn't count according to them).

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On 6/14/2018 at 6:49 AM, mr.negative15 said:

 

lol.

I'm sorry man, this really isn't my style, but how the hell can you possibly say that just 2 weeks after an expansion team was announced, for next year no less.

 

And even with the three announced teams, that's only 26. The "big four" leagues in North Ameraica are all 30 or more teams. MLS could add six more markets over the course of say, the next 10-20 years.  

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9 hours ago, Corvus said:

 

And even with the three announced teams, that's only 26. The "big four" leagues in North Ameraica are all 30 or more teams. MLS could add six more markets over the course of say, the next 10-20 years.  

Don't give them any ideas! 28 will probably be the cap they agree on. Miami has been in neutral for years and sometimes it looks good, then a minute later it's been pushed back again. 

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4 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

Don't give them any ideas! 28 will probably be the cap they agree on.

 

Mark my words: by the time the US hosts the World Cup Final, the number of clubs in MLS will be closer to 40 than 28.

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5 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

Don't give them any ideas! 28 will probably be the cap they agree on. Miami has been in neutral for years and sometimes it looks good, then a minute later it's been pushed back again. 

 

Miami Shchrodinger FC.

 

There are so many other places that want in, I doubt they stop at 28, and with the league attracting some bigger money teams and players now, there's not shortage of talent. 

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40 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

https://www.fccincinnati.com/news_article/show/929970

 

 

This football team is the complete polar opposite of that other football team we have in town. It’s really refreshing to see them commit to a higher level of operation. 

I work very close to there in Milford. Lots of youth soccer in this area. I think it will be a great addition to the community.

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6 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Mark my words: by the time the US hosts the World Cup Final, the number of clubs in MLS will be closer to 40 than 28.

While I can certainly see that happening, my question is this: would that be wise??

 

Granted, I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as many of you guys are on the business side of pro soccer operations, but from my vantage point, for MLS to not yet be a top-tier global league yet, having that many teams on the top tier just has "watered down" written all over it. I know soccer expansion is the hot thing right now, and eeeehhhbody want a piece of the pie, but as any good domino player worth his bones would tell you: "all money ain't good money"; neither is all growth not good growth. It is possible to grow too fast. That's my concern for MLS--capitalising on its rising star so fast now that it ends up choking on its own growth later on.

 

What would you guys say (and I'm just asking--again I don't know enough to state an authoritative opinion on this) to the USSF, if they can be talked into it, reorganizing the whole pyramid? Meaning, the National Team on top as step 1 (or to the Premier League, as the top tier in the world), MLS the next level down, step 2 (i really don't think they should break 30--shoot they probably shouldn't break 28), then with USL the next step down from there for the mid-major markets, step 3, and then the NPSL or whatever the next-level-league down from there being step 4 (for like the Mobile Alabamas,  Pensacola Floridas, Evansville Indianas and Wheeling West Virginias of the country--that 60K-100K pop. demographic or so)--in that way noy entirely unlike the farm system pro baseball and pro hockey have in place? Several clubs already have USL clubs in place now; why not flesh it out all the way, set up/align some affilitations with higher clubs, with the ultimate goal of making it to the national team? (And naturally, players from each club aspiring to make it to their parent affiliate, so on and so forth--if nothing else that could be a built in motivation to get their skills up to top level to be worthy of being called up).  Oh and of course rolling in and incorporating the many youth academies many clubs already have in place. You know, just unify the whole structure under one accord with a common vision and common goal. (And if it helps prevent more rifraff like the NASL/USL beef that was going on, the better.)

 

Is that something those of y'all in the know think USSF and MLS can make some kind of feasible?

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I think they definitely get to 32 and we'll see from there. 

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@Buc, I’m a bit confused at how you’re proposing the national team into this—that’s a separate thing from the clubs.

 

my concern re expansion is that, to my knowledge, MLS TV ratings have not exactly been growing sharply in recent years. Is a strong “supporter culture” in (some) stadiums enough to sustain the whole league?

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17 hours ago, Buc said:

While I can certainly see that happening, my question is this: would that be wise??

 

Granted, I'm nowhere near as knowledgeable as many of you guys are on the business side of pro soccer operations, but from my vantage point, for MLS to not yet be a top-tier global league yet, having that many teams on the top tier just has "watered down" written all over it

 

That may be true in a game like baseball or basketball, which still have relatively limited talent-development streams.  But with soccer, we're talking about being able to recruit from virtually everywhere on the entire planet.  There's no way the overall talent pool gets "watered down".

 

And actually, the inverse is true.  As the league grows, it is able to recruit better players from home and abroad, and more good players from across the world will choose to come here.. 

 

17 hours ago, Buc said:

I know soccer expansion is the hot thing right now, and eeeehhhbody want a piece of the pie, but as any good domino player worth his bones would tell you: "all money ain't good money"; neither is all growth not good growth. It is possible to grow too fast. That's my concern for MLS--capitalising on its rising star so fast now that it ends up choking on its own growth later on.

 

So long as the markets they're adding are stable and allow for growth, like Atlanta and NYC, then it's good.  What side effects of growing too fast are you specifically concerned about? 

 

17 hours ago, Buc said:

What would you guys say (and I'm just asking--again I don't know enough to state an authoritative opinion on this) to the USSF, if they can be talked into it, reorganizing the whole pyramid? Meaning, the National Team on top as step 1 (or to the Premier League, as the top tier in the world), MLS the next level down, step 2

 

As @Digby pointed out, the national team is totally unrelated to MLS.  Not the same competition, not the same players.  The USMNT is only for American citizens, and only competes against other nations.  Think of it like the US Olympic basketball team as opposed to the NBA.  Yes, players should aspire to play for their countries.  But that doesn't impact how they play for their clubs, except that success at their clubs can certainly help their chances.  

 

MLS is and will remain the top level of club football in the United States.

 

17 hours ago, Buc said:

(i really don't think they should break 30--shoot they probably shouldn't break 28), then with USL the next step down from there for the mid-major markets, step 3, and then the NPSL or whatever the next-level-league down from there being step 4 (for like the Mobile Alabamas,  Pensacola Floridas, Evansville Indianas and Wheeling West Virginias of the country--that 60K-100K pop. demographic or so)--in that way noy entirely unlike the farm system pro baseball and pro hockey have in place? Several clubs already have USL clubs in place now; why not flesh it out all the way, set up/align some affilitations with higher clubs, with the ultimate goal of making it to the national team? (And naturally, players from each club aspiring to make it to their parent affiliate, so on and so forth--if nothing else that could be a built in motivation to get their skills up to top level to be worthy of being called up).  Oh and of course rolling in and incorporating the many youth academies many clubs already have in place. You know, just unify the whole structure under one accord with a common vision and common goal. (And if it helps prevent more rifraff like the NASL/USL beef that was going on, the better.)

 

Is that something those of y'all in the know think USSF and MLS can make some kind of feasible?

 

Setting aside the USMNT part, I think you're seeing a bit of this shake out right now.  Mobile, Pensacola and the others can't support the top level of soccer.  But they can support a lower level, and we're already moving to a place where smaller cities secure clubs in the lower divisions, and larger/more stable markets are looking towards the higher divisions.  MLS clubs need a way to give their developing players more playing time, and that means either 2 teams or affiliates, and hungry players showing they belong in MLS.

The problem with the NASL is that they had a group of owners unwilling to put the infrastructure together their league needed.  Their beef wasn't with the USL, it was with the USSF for having standards and with the very concepts of standards in the first place.  But as we've seen, those standards are in place for a reason.  The USSF can't just license any group of investors as a league, they have to demonstrate that they can meet certain benchmarks and have a sustainable business plan.  The NASL didn't, and eventually the USSF ran out of patience and stopped carrying them.

 

As the sport grows in our country, so too do the standards required to be certified as a professional league.  That higher bar should help keep out groups like the NASL.

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If you were to set up promotion/relegation in the US how would you do it?

 

How many teams in each flight? (If less than the number of teams already there, how would you determine who gets moved down?)

What happens to the Canadian teams?

What happens to the teams owned/operated/affiliated with other teams?

How would the dozens of PDL and NPSL teams be organized to work into the pyramid?

Would there be a playoff for the final spot or just straight pro/rel?

Finally, would you keep the season going through the summer or switch it to match the major European leagues?

 

 

If you could organize it any way you see fit how would you do so?

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21 minutes ago, Cab24fan said:

If you were to set up promotion/relegation in the US how would you do it?

 

How many teams in each flight? (If less than the number of teams already there, how would you determine who gets moved down?)

What happens to the Canadian teams?

What happens to the teams owned/operated/affiliated with other teams?

How would the dozens of PDL and NPSL teams be organized to work into the pyramid?

Would there be a playoff for the final spot or just straight pro/rel?

Finally, would you keep the season going through the summer or switch it to match the major European leagues?

 

 

If you could organize it any way you see fit how would you do so?

Leave it the way it is. Teams that aren't in MLS can't afford to compete now, they won't in the future unless they are in MLS. Stable lower leagues and better grassroots coaching is a bigger need than promotion and relegation. 

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We're in the middle of the MLS season and the World Cup. Let's save the rotted horse carcass of pro/rel in the ground until we hit the offseason and  have nothing else to talk about. 

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3 hours ago, mr.negative15 said:

"not this again"

board slogan

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