Gothamite

North American Pro Soccer 2018

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30 minutes ago, 4_tattoos said:

I know that a lot can happen in the span of 15 to 20 years, but how was LAFC able to get a stadium built in the proper Los Angeles city limits, while Galaxy had to get StubHub Center built in Carson back in the early 2000's? Does LAFC's ownership have deeper pockets than Galaxy's did? What sat on the land that is now Banc of California Stadium that prevented Galaxy from building a stadium on that same spot back in 2003?

I'd have to check with our resident Californians but I believe that's where the LA Memorial Sports Arena was.

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1 hour ago, willmorris said:

I'd have to check with our resident Californians but I believe that's where the LA Memorial Sports Arena was.

You are correct sir. 

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5 hours ago, 4_tattoos said:

I know that a lot can happen in the span of 15 to 20 years, but how was LAFC able to get a stadium built in the proper Los Angeles city limits, while Galaxy had to get StubHub Center built in Carson back in the early 2000's? Does LAFC's ownership have deeper pockets than Galaxy's did? What sat on the land that is now Banc of California Stadium that prevented Galaxy from building a stadium on that same spot back in 2003?

 

USC used to site for basketball until 2006. 

 

The Galaxy are owned by AEG, LAFC by the owner of the Warriors/Dodgers. Both have very deep pockets. It was just a matter of timing.

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5 hours ago, TheGrimReaper said:

 

USC used to site for basketball until 2006

 

The Galaxy are owned by AEG, LAFC by the owner of the Warriors/Dodgers. Both have very deep pockets. It was just a matter of timing.

So if Galaxy waited a few more years, they might have been able to build on the site? Assuming of course that it was known within the LA area that USC was going to leave that old arena. If so, seems like being patient could have prevented LAFC from ever coming into existence.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, 4_tattoos said:

So if Galaxy waited a few more years, they might have been able to build on the site? Assuming of course that it was known within the LA area that USC was going to leave that old arena. If so, seems like being patient could have prevented LAFC from ever coming into existence.

Not necessarily as StubHub Center broke ground in 2002. Try to follow.

1-The land is owned by the state of California and overseen on the state's behalf by the California Science Center (6th Agriculture District). 

2-The state turned over operations to the L.A. Coliseum Commission, who had leases with the state since 1956. The commission is a JPA with city, county, and state appointees.

http://lamcc.lacounty.gov/

3- The Coliseum Commission made a sublease with USC in 2013* in which USC manages the Coliseum and then standing Sports Arena properties through 2054 when the Commission dissolves and afterwards. This occurred because in 2011, the Coliseum Commission admitted that they didn't have any cash reserves to honor $60M in renovations previously promised to USC. USC first tried to gain the master lease in 2007, but were rebuffed.

4-USC, now with land control, made a third sublease with LAFC for a stadium on the former Sports Arena site.

 

*-2013 was when the control of the land occurred.  During the process, AEG was still busy with Farmers Field plus there were filings to put the company up for sale as well.

Edited by dfwabel

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And LA would have had a second club regardless. It’s too tempting to have local rivals in markets like that one, as in New York.  If not in that location, then elsewhere. 

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Even after USC stopped using LA Sports Arena, the arena still was used for some things before it was determined that it had NO use whatsoever with so many other arena options for events, concerts, conventions, etc.

 

The other thing is, LAG had no real incentive to wait. At the time, MLS just needed teams in their own venues. And that usually meant well outside the downtown core. LAG probably wouldn't have survived without huge losses if they had to keep playing elsewhere (Rose Bowl, Coliseum, or some other venue) until now to get a venue. And, at the time, Carson was the only real option to get it built.

 

The problem is it's 20-30 years until they can move to somewhere better after building StubHub. So, they're stuck now. LAG's best hope, is over the next decade, is to really entrench themselves as being the south/east/suburban team while LAFC aims for LAFC proper and west/north/northwest for support and get more of a cultural split along those lines.

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13 hours ago, Gothamite said:

And LA would have had a second club regardless. It’s too tempting to have local rivals in markets like that one, as in New York.  If not in that location, then elsewhere. 

 

Yup. Chivas USA would probably still come in. Would they share this hypothetical DTLA Galaxy stadium or go to the other option of San Diego? idk. Chivas would suffer the same fate regardless, I think.

 

If the Galaxy are in DTLA, maybe MLS explores Orange County for the second area team? Maybe they actually go to San Diego? Who knows? I'm not sure where they'd put a new SSS in OC. I know LAFC briefly explored the idea. They're investing in academy fields by the old Tustin air hangars/fields. (The Angels briefly looked into that space as well.) Orange County SC (LAFC's USL affiliate) play in a new, but small, soccer stadium at the Great Park in Irvine.

 

Anyways, all hypotheticals and ifs/ands/buts. There was always going to be a second LA-area team. The where would be secondary.

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Maybe Orange County, but San Diego never counts as a second LA team.  That would not have been a solution.

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4 hours ago, Gothamite said:

Maybe Orange County, but San Diego never counts as a second LA team.  That would not have been a solution.

 

Well yeah, I know that. I'm just thinking of keeping local rivalries. San Diego would work just as well. Not the same, but it'd work.

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13 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

Well yeah, I know that. I'm just thinking of keeping local rivalries. San Diego would work just as well. Not the same, but it'd work.

 

I really don't think it would.

 

San Diego and LA are more like Milwaukee/Chicago or Orlando/Miami.  Even Seattle/Portland.  Good potential for a rivalry, to be sure, but not a local one.  

 

There's really nothing like a cross-town derby, where both clubs are fighting for the same market.  It's something special, and only another LA club could have brought that to the Galaxy.

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43 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

I really don't think it would.

 

San Diego and LA are more like Milwaukee/Chicago or Orlando/Miami.  Even Seattle/Portland.  Good potential for a rivalry, to be sure, but not a local one.  

 

There's really nothing like a cross-town derby, where both clubs are fighting for the same market.  It's something special, and only another LA club could have brought that to the Galaxy.

 

I'm well aware of this. I live here, man lol. We have two teams in every single sport. I get why it works better that way. I agree with you.

 

I'm just saying in this hypothetical where Galaxy builds downtown, if a 2nd team wouldn't share the stadium or find an OC location, I'm not sure where they would go. I could've seen MLS doing San Diego and calling it a day. Maybe in theory it all gets reversed with Galaxy taking the downtown and LA2 taking the suburbs/Carson. I don't know. It also doesn't matter because that's not what happened. Everything worked out the way it worked out, and I'm actually pretty happy with the result. #LAFC

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19 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

in this hypothetical where Galaxy builds downtown, if a 2nd team wouldn't share the stadium or find an OC location, I'm not sure where they would go. I could've seen MLS doing San Diego and calling it a day. 

 

I just can't, because a team in San Diego isn't remotely the same as a second team in LA.

 

Maybe in this hypothetical they include the Spanos family in the ownership group.  That opens up the City of Champions Stadium.  Or they bring the Dodgers on board and use Dodger Stadium.  Neither would be ideal, but each would be better than only one club in the City of Angels.

 

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14 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

I just can't, because a team in San Diego isn't remotely the same as a second team in LA.

 

Maybe in this hypothetical they include the Spanos family in the ownership group.  That opens up the City of Champions Stadium.  Or they bring the Dodgers on board and use Dodger Stadium.  Neither would be ideal, but each would be better than only one club in the City of Angels.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

I don't know. It also doesn't matter because that's not what happened.

 

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30 minutes ago, willmorris said:

Hartford's getting a USL team next year.

 

Any chance they use Brass Bonanza as a goal song?

 

Probably not.  The ownership, in their soccer wisdom, went Anglo and named the team "Athletic" so most likely do not know about the Whalers. 

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Just now, Needschat said:

Probably not.  The ownership, in their soccer wisdom, went Anglo and named the team "Athletic" so most likely do not know about the Whalers. 

 

Pretty sure the NHL still retains the trademark on the name, so there’s no way a minor league soccer club would ever be able to use it if they wanted. 

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Just now, Gothamite said:

 

Pretty sure the NHL still retains the trademark on the name, so there’s no way a minor league soccer club would ever be able to use it if they wanted. 

 

The song we're talking about.  The naming of Athletic means they didn't think about defunct soccer clubs based in Hartford and the rest of Connecticut: Wildcats, Yankees,  Bicentennials, Wolves, and the best of all Hellions.

 

The only place where the name Whalers should be attached to a soccer club should be in New Bedford. 

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So choosing not to pick up an old name means they haven’t heard of the Whalers, though?  :rolleyes: Which is, after all, what you said.

 

The beauty of a name like “Athletic” is that fans can choose the name.  It’s not imposed by the owners. So let’s see: if the fans want “Hellions” they can have “Hellions”. 

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Would love to see another New England side come in that forces the Revolution to alter their name.

 

Personally I think St Louis should get a side before many others.

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