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NHL 2018-19

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27 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

I guess I don’t see what you see - in my experience, the vast majority of the posters here are more than capable of making that distinction.  

 

I myself want the Brewers to adopt their alternates as full-time home uniforms. Not because I think they’re a great design in their own right, but mostly because I recognize that they have unique emotional resonance.  And I don’t think I’m alone in that kind of analysis. 

 

Here’s a question I’m always interested in:

 

So, when you find that emotional resonance with a uniform, does it only work for you if it’s exactly as it was, or does it still work if small updates are made in the interest of improving it (subjective, I know, but in principle...)?

 

For example, let’s say the Sabres went back to their classic uniform (talking about the white one at the moment), but they used the updated bison from the Winter Classic, switched the hem stripe to match the sleeves and socks, and simplified the pants to a single yellow stripe to match the trim on the shoulder yoke. Modern classic that maintains the spirit of the original, or defaced history?

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1 minute ago, andrewharrington said:

 

Here’s a question I’m always interested in:

 

So, when you find that emotional resonance with a uniform, does it only work for you if it’s exactly as it was, or does it still work if small updates are made in the interest of improving it (subjective, I know, but in principle...)?

 

For example, let’s say the Sabres went back to their classic uniform (talking about the white one at the moment), but they used the updated bison from the Winter Classic, switched the hem stripe to match the sleeves and socks, and simplified the pants to a single yellow stripe to match the trim on the shoulder yoke. Modern classic that maintains the spirit of the original, or defaced history?

 

Well, in my case, the Brewers have already updated their classic uniform - changing pullover to button-up, adding a sleeve patch - so I’m more than willing to accept some changes.  

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16 hours ago, andrewharrington said:

 

Here’s a question I’m always interested in:

 

So, when you find that emotional resonance with a uniform, does it only work for you if it’s exactly as it was, or does it still work if small updates are made in the interest of improving it (subjective, I know, but in principle...)?

 

For example, let’s say the Sabres went back to their classic uniform (talking about the white one at the moment), but they used the updated bison from the Winter Classic, switched the hem stripe to match the sleeves and socks, and simplified the pants to a single yellow stripe to match the trim on the shoulder yoke. Modern classic that maintains the spirit of the original, or defaced history?

 

I'll echo @Gothamite's sentiments. Slight changes are fine and, to be honest, expected. 

 

The only thing I'll add is this; Never add silver. The Leafs did it in 2001 and, speaking of the Sabres, we all remember how stupid the silver piping was. :P

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I'd go Northwestern stripes on the Sabres' pants to better match the stripes, but agree there should be no white on them. The dark uniforms shouldn't have any white in the numbers, either. But you know what was really an underrated tweak on the Winter Classics? The varsity serif (or modification thereof) on the NOBs. Something about that has more of a "western" feel to me, which I guess works with the bison and Western New York (a/k/a the Niagara Frontier: Buffalo truly is the West of the East, I guess). I'd had that in mind for the Sabres for a while. In an ideal world, they'd have made those changes in '96 and never changed a thing again. It's a great improvement.

 

I could get on board with the buffalo that says SABRES as a shoulder logo but I actually don't mind repeating the primary there.

 

In general, small changes are acceptable and can go a long way in improving classic uniforms. Few uniforms should be preserved in amber: Yankees home, Bears home, Raiders home, Red Wings whites. Almost everyone can benefit from tiny improvements to their classic looks, even venerable teams like the Maple Leafs and Canadiens.

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54 minutes ago, the admiral said:

I'd go Northwestern stripes on the Sabres' pants to better match the stripes, but agree there should be no white on them. The dark uniforms shouldn't have any white in the numbers, either. But you know what was really an underrated tweak on the Winter Classics? The varsity serif (or modification thereof) on the NOBs. Something about that has more of a "western" feel to me, which I guess works with the bison and Western New York (a/k/a the Niagara Frontier: Buffalo truly is the West of the East, I guess). I'd had that in mind for the Sabres for a while. In an ideal world, they'd have made those changes in '96 and never changed a thing again. It's a great improvement.

 

I could get on board with the buffalo that says SABRES as a shoulder logo but I actually don't mind repeating the primary there.

 

In general, small changes are acceptable and can go a long way in improving classic uniforms. Few uniforms should be preserved in amber: Yankees home, Bears home, Raiders home, Red Wings whites. Almost everyone can benefit from tiny improvements to their classic looks, even venerable teams like the Maple Leafs and Canadiens.

 

The Canadiens need to go back to their lighter red and single bordering on their white sweater numbers.

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I prefer when teams stick with a look that's had success because I see value in history and wearing a look you had success is strong for the brand becausse it taps an emotional connection that replacement level new uniform doesn't. It also creates a visual connection with players from the past. That, and if you won it all in a uniform that was one of the many ingredients that helped make things work. I don't know why you would want to stray too far from that, but that's maybe me being a bit superstitious.  

 

Now, the original Panthers look was good, but I'm not going to place it in the category of uniforms teams should've kept because they won in them. Most of the time they wore that look they were not a good team and I like what they have now too. 

 

19 hours ago, andrewharrington said:

 

Here’s a question I’m always interested in:

 

So, when you find that emotional resonance with a uniform, does it only work for you if it’s exactly as it was, or does it still work if small updates are made in the interest of improving it (subjective, I know, but in principle...)?

 

For example, let’s say the Sabres went back to their classic uniform (talking about the white one at the moment), but they used the updated bison from the Winter Classic, switched the hem stripe to match the sleeves and socks, and simplified the pants to a single yellow stripe to match the trim on the shoulder yoke. Modern classic that maintains the spirit of the original, or defaced history?

 

I think there's room to make improvements while still tapping into that emotional resonance. Good example: The Jets in 98 went back to the Namath look full-time, but made some changes so the uniform would work on a contemporary cut jersey and they chose a darker green. They also chose to use a green facemask instead of going verbatim throwback and using gray. I think those were good decisions. Honored the past while fixing the mistakes so it looks good in the present. Another example: A lot of people seem to really like the Dolphins throwbacks and I'm one of them, but I wouldn't want to see them return just as they were worn in 1968. The pants and helmet stripes not matching is an issue, the logo needs an update, the shoulder number outline is a relic. Go back to it, but fix the issues too.

 

 

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5 hours ago, the admiral said:

I'd go Northwestern stripes on the Sabres' pants to better match the stripes, but agree there should be no white on them. The dark uniforms shouldn't have any white in the numbers, either. But you know what was really an underrated tweak on the Winter Classics? The varsity serif (or modification thereof) on the NOBs. Something about that has more of a "western" feel to me, which I guess works with the bison and Western New York (a/k/a the Niagara Frontier: Buffalo truly is the West of the East, I guess). I'd had that in mind for the Sabres for a while. In an ideal world, they'd have made those changes in '96 and never changed a thing again. It's a great improvement.

 

I could get on board with the buffalo that says SABRES as a shoulder logo but I actually don't mind repeating the primary there.

 

In general, small changes are acceptable and can go a long way in improving classic uniforms. Few uniforms should be preserved in amber: Yankees home, Bears home, Raiders home, Red Wings whites. Almost everyone can benefit from tiny improvements to their classic looks, even venerable teams like the Maple Leafs and Canadiens.

 

Couldn't agree more, on all points, actually.

 

The serif lettering was a nod to the very first Sabres jerseys that featured player names. They nameplate overlapped onto the shoulder yoke back then, which was not a great look. :-)

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On 1/4/2018 at 1:20 PM, the admiral said:

I'd go Northwestern stripes on the Sabres' pants to better match the stripes, but agree there should be no white on them. The dark uniforms shouldn't have any white in the numbers, either. But you know what was really an underrated tweak on the Winter Classics? The varsity serif (or modification thereof) on the NOBs. Something about that has more of a "western" feel to me, which I guess works with the bison and Western New York (a/k/a the Niagara Frontier: Buffalo truly is the West of the East, I guess). I'd had that in mind for the Sabres for a while. In an ideal world, they'd have made those changes in '96 and never changed a thing again. It's a great improvement.

 

I could get on board with the buffalo that says SABRES as a shoulder logo but I actually don't mind repeating the primary there.

 

In general, small changes are acceptable and can go a long way in improving classic uniforms. Few uniforms should be preserved in amber: Yankees home, Bears home, Raiders home, Red Wings whites. Almost everyone can benefit from tiny improvements to their classic looks, even venerable teams like the Maple Leafs and Canadiens.

I really like that vaguely Western idea. Not that there were cowboys riding around Cheektowaga, but it works in an abstract way. It sort of ties everything together with the Bills, even. Besides the manufacturing powerhouse —> Rust Belt story that we pretty much share with everyone around us (and why would you really want to trumpet that?), Buffalo’s unique place in history is with the Erie Canal and being the gateway to the frontier in the 1800s. It’s what made Buffalo the second largest city in the country at one point. Coincidentally, the old terminus of the Erie Canal is about 50 yards away from the Sabres’ arena.

 

I agree with dropping any white on the blue uniforms. I like that new bison logo, but only if it’s used in situations without white around it. Sort of the same situation as vintage white. I can buy vintage white as “white”, but when the other team is in cover-your-eyes-it’s-so-bright white, it ruins the conceit. A logo like the new one works with a one-color-printing feel, but having white around it makes it feel like there should be white somewhere in the logo. I don’t know what it is, but I could very easily see a similar setup with the Flyers in straight orange/black if they don’t have something like that already.

 

I would keep the pants simple, but I’d love to steal these socks since the Leafs aren’t using them anymore. I don’t know if my opinion has any basis in fact, but they feel old-timey to me. Copying Toronto is also a callback to Sabres history.

 

Mats-Sundin.jpg

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On 1/3/2018 at 10:50 AM, Ice_Cap said:

I’m not sure making one run to the Finals only to be swept is enough to immortalize a uniform. 

 

Seems like a good time to point out that the Sabres never won a Stanley Cup in their inaugural look either.  That being said, I wouldn't say the uniform was devoid of success.  Same thing goes with the Panthers though in their case that success is graded on a bell curve.

 

On 1/3/2018 at 12:23 PM, Ice_Cap said:

I don’t see it as hypocritical. The Panthers never accomplished anything in their innagural look. 

When people say “they should wear a look they had success in” they mean actual success. The Oilers or Islanders in their dynasty looks, for example. 

 

It’s not hypocritical to hold that position while also pointing out the innagural Panthers set does not have the championship pedigree that would warrant it being immortalised. 


I'm tired of people saying that a Western or Eastern conference championship is "accomplishing nothing."  I know it's not the trophy everyone is after but if it means nothing, why award a trophy in the first place?
 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, Morgo said:

Seems like a good time to point out that the Sabres never won a Stanley Cup in their inaugural look either. 

No one ever used past success to argue for the Sabres to return to their old look. You’re doing that thing again where you lump everyone together to create a strawman of an argument no one ever made. 

 

People wanted to see the Sabres return to their old look because the red, black, white, and grey look just wasn’t the Sabres. People wanted to see them return to the look the team spent most of their history in. 

And it should be noted. The Sabres won an Eastern Conference Championship in the black, red, white, and grey look. No one tried to use it as a serious defence in its favour when it was ditched. 

 

Now the Panthers...I’m going to go out on a limb and say that more people followed the Sabres from 1970-1996 than watched the Panthers from 1993-2007. More people saw the Sabres in blue and gold. More people developed sentimental attachments to the Sabres’ inaugural look than they did for the Panthers’. 

 

You can go on about “past success” in the innagural Panthers look all you want. The fact is that the Panthers were a team in the middle of a swamp no one cared about for the latter half of the innagural set’s tenure. 

The Sabres, meanwhile, remained a beloved team in a hockey hotbed during their inaugural look’s tenure. 

 

So I understand why one look was beloved and the other is just sort of there. The two aren’t equivalent. People cared about the Sabres in blue and gold. People often forgot the pre-2007 Panthers existed. 

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34 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

No one ever used past success to argue for the Sabres to return to their old look. You’re doing that thing again where you lump everyone together to create a strawman of an argument no one ever made. 

 

People wanted to see the Sabres return to their old look because the red, black, white, and grey look just wasn’t the Sabres. People wanted to see them return to the look the team spent most of their history in. 

And it should be noted. The Sabres won an Eastern Conference Championship in the black, red, white, and grey look. No one tried to use it as a serious defence in its favour when it was ditched. 

 

Now the Panthers...I’m going to go out on a limb and say that more people followed the Sabres from 1970-1996 than watched the Panthers from 1993-2007. More people saw the Sabres in blue and gold. More people developed sentimental attachments to the Sabres’ inaugural look than they did for the Panthers’. 

 

You can go on about “past success” in the innagural Panthers look all you want. The fact is that the Panthers were a team in the middle of a swamp no one cared about for the latter half of the innagural set’s tenure. 

The Sabres, meanwhile, remained a beloved team in a hockey hotbed during their inaugural look’s tenure. 

 

So I understand why one look was beloved and the other is just sort of there. The two aren’t equivalent. People cared about the Sabres in blue and gold. People often forgot the pre-2007 Panthers existed. 

Not to mention, there is a LARGE segment of the population of Buffalo that clings to preservationist thinking. Not just with sabres jerseys(even though there are people saying the current jersey is crap becase the white jersey striping isnt correct), but also with buildings.

 

Not all residents are like this, but it is a vocal minority. Same people who boycotted both the goathead and the slug merch.

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But doesn't Buffalo have a lot of architecture worth preserving? I know the City Hall is supposed to be very impressive, and I shouldn't know much offhand about Buffalo City Hall. If people want to preserve circa-1930s architecture, boycott the goathead and Buffaslug, and stick around in Western New York, I think we should listen to them!

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1 hour ago, Ice_Cap said:

People wanted to see the Sabres return to their old look because the red, black, white, and grey look just wasn’t the Sabres. People wanted to see them return to the look the team spent most of their history in. 

And it should be noted. The Sabres won an Eastern Conference Championship in the black, red, white, and grey look. No one tried to use it as a serious defence in its favour when it was ditched.

 

We weren't talking about how beloved the team was or how many people followed them.  If we were there would be no way to hold any of the Panthers uniforms in high regard.  We were talking about the visual merits of past looks and the ability of prior success to bolster them.

 

Quote

You’re doing that thing again where you lump everyone together to create a strawman of an argument no one ever made.

 
 

Quote

 

You can go on about “past success” in the innagural Panthers look all you want. The fact is that the Panthers were a team in the middle of a swamp no one cared about for the latter half of the innagural set’s tenure.

 

 

Why is exactly why I said that success should be graded on a bell curve.  Going to the finals in your third season and getting swept might not be the ideal model of success but when you consider that not a single playoff series has been won in any of their other uniforms, including the current, you can be forgiven for holding it in higher regard.

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7 hours ago, Morgo said:

We were talking about the visual merits of past looks and the ability of prior success to bolster them.

Were we? You were talking about how the inaugural set is associated with most of their success, and so it should be brought back. You're the one who steered this away from purely aesthetic preferences.

 

If we're going to bring this back to visual merits? I like the current look and the inaugural look. While I appreciate the latter? I really like the former and see no need for them to change. You disagree.

There's not much more to say about it than that.

 

8 hours ago, Morgo said:

Why is exactly why I said that success should be graded on a bell curve.  Going to the finals in your third season and getting swept might not be the ideal model of success but when you consider that not a single playoff series has been won in any of their other uniforms, including the current, you can be forgiven for holding it in higher regard.

Sure, but it doesn't enshrine it either. Loses aren't remembered as much as championship runs are and, like it or not, any Finals run that doesn't end with lifting the Cup is a loss.

Although none of this matters if you are now insisting this is a discussion based entirely on visual merits. IE aesthetic preference.

 

 

 

 

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I wouldn't be surprised if the Panthers unveil a 3rd jersey using the updated leaping panther on the inaugural red uniform (with the shade of gold updated). Would be a nice way to tie both looks together, and I'm sure they would sell well given the current wave of '90s nostalgia.

 

2243_florida_panthers-alternate-2017.png

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12 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

I like the current look and the inaugural look. While I appreciate the latter? I really like the former and see no need for them to change. You disagree.

There's not much more to say about it than that.


Yep :)
 

1 hour ago, spartacat_12 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the Panthers unveil a 3rd jersey using the updated leaping panther on the inaugural red uniform (with the shade of gold updated). Would be a nice way to tie both looks together, and I'm sure they would sell well given the current wave of '90s nostalgia

 

That would look great and I think most people would agree that the last thing need is another navy jersey.

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2 hours ago, spartacat_12 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the Panthers unveil a 3rd jersey using the updated leaping panther on the inaugural red uniform (with the shade of gold updated). Would be a nice way to tie both looks together, and I'm sure they would sell well given the current wave of '90s nostalgia.

 

This is a very bad logo, updating a logo that wasn't too great in the first place. It doesn't belong in this set.

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As a huge panthers fan im still not sold on the new shield logo. Alot of people here in south florida really miss the leaping cat. I get why they changed it, It was hard to produce on merchandise but i think they missed a great opportunity to put the updated leaping cat (Which looks great BTW) on their new jersey template which i really like. Heres my concept ZSYrGWc.png

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The jumping cat logo always makes me feel like I should be wearing 3D glasses. 

 

It's not a bad logo, but I didn't think it needed an update and an inclusion in the new set. Could've been left in the past. They're currently using it on the helmets. Also they need to do a second take on those nubs that are supposed to be his back feet. 

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So there's a Reddit post where a European Ducks fan says they have the pre-order catalog for next season and the only options they have to pick from are the current home and away, so maybe the Ducks aren't changing. 

 

The post also says the Senators are the only TBD team.

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