SmackNCheese Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 2 hours ago, andrewharrington said: Fabrics absolutely have inherent qualities that affect their perceived fit properties. Typically, that’s the structure and content of the fabric, which both affect how elastic it is. For example, a woven fabric and a stretchy knit fabric cut and sewn to the exact same garment pattern will be perceived vastly different in terms of tightness and fit. I own two pairs of jeans in the exact same cut. One is a very densely woven denim, and the other is a more open weave. The open weave feels looser, more comfortable and better fitting despite being the exact same size/cut/pattern and actually being less broken in. All this is perceivable when holding a plain sheet of textile. 1 hour ago, WavePunter said: But a woven fabric shirt in a size 4XL will not be tight on me, while a stretchy knit fabric shirt in a size XXS will be extremely tight on me.. The material in-and-of itself, cannot be tight or loose.. It is 100% dependent upon the cut and sizing.. You can the the "tightest" material ever, and if you use it to create a garment that is cut much looser and sized much bigger, it will not be tight.. Obviously material selection is important in creating a quality garment, but fit is dictated by the cut and size.. That's why when people ask what size you wear, "denim" is never the answer @WavePunter is right to an extent. Materials are not inherently "tight" or "loose". If you describe a fabric as "tight", that means that it has more elasticity to it, allowing it to be cut and sewn in patterns smaller than would be acceptable with a more inelastic material. If one could get their hands on a ream of "Techfit PrimeKnit" textile, they could easily make a loose fitting jersey by increasing the size of certain areas on the cutting pattern and sew together accordingly. The reason Adidas doesn't do this and stands by their number-warping practice is that they claim that it benefits players by making them harder to tackle because there's less stuff to bring them down by (which is debatable). However, I think that simple semantics have created a bit of confusion. See, we all understand that fabrics are simple sheets until they are patterned or woven into their desired shape. We can also agree that these textile have certain unique properties (ie. elasticity, texture) that lend themselves towards different usages. Fore example, it is entirely useless to devote resources towards developing a super-elastic fabric blend unless one intends to put that elasticity to use (in Adidas' case, by making tight-fitting jersey).@andrewharrington basically just skipped the middle man in his initial argument imo, claiming that the textile was "tight". Obviously a ream of fabric isn't inherently "tight", but it's fairly obvious that because it is highly elastic, it is mean to be tight-fitting in the final product. Hopefully we can stop this "Properties of Fabrics 1010" thread and get back to the uniforms now. On 1/13/2018 at 6:57 PM, andrewharrington said: I've never found the material to be particularly "tight" feeling. It fits snugly, but doesn't "compress" much, in my opinion, which is what I prefer. I thought there were pockets inside to lock the pads in? I personally found the PrimeKnit jersey to be really constricting when I first put it on, but I got acclimated to it quickly, and it ended up being pretty comfy. And yes, there are slots for the shoulder pads in the sleeve caps, which honestly is an incredibly underrated feature. Throwing is way easier as your shoulders are almost completely uninhibited (depending on the size of your pads), because the jersey pulls the little shoulder covers back towards the center. I still really dislike the printed, warping numbers and tire tread pattern, but it felt great at least. The pants were less than great. I can't pinpoint what it was about them but they just felt awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WavePunter Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 16 minutes ago, Power_Ranger_Rick said: @WavePunter is right to an extent. Materials are not inherently "tight" or "loose". If you describe a fabric as "tight", that means that it has more elasticity to it, allowing it to be cut and sewn in patterns smaller than would be acceptable with a more inelastic material. If one could get their hands on a ream of "Techfit PrimeKnit" textile, they could easily make a loose fitting jersey by increasing the size of certain areas on the cutting pattern and sew together accordingly. The reason Adidas doesn't do this and stands by their number-warping practice is that they claim that it benefits players by making them harder to tackle because there's less stuff to bring them down by (which is debatable). However, I think that simple semantics have created a bit of confusion. See, we all understand that fabrics are simple sheets until they are patterned or woven into their desired shape. We can also agree that these textile have certain unique properties (ie. elasticity, texture) that lend themselves towards different usages. Fore example, it is entirely useless to devote resources towards developing a super-elastic fabric blend unless one intends to put that elasticity to use (in Adidas' case, by making tight-fitting jersey).@andrewharrington basically just skipped the middle man in his initial argument imo, claiming that the textile was "tight". Obviously a ream of fabric isn't inherently "tight", but it's fairly obvious that because it is highly elastic, it is mean to be tight-fitting in the final product. Hopefully we can stop this "Properties of Fabrics 1010" thread and get back to the uniforms now. I personally found the PrimeKnit jersey to be really constricting when I first put it on, but I got acclimated to it quickly, and it ended up being pretty comfy. And yes, there are slots for the shoulder pads in the sleeve caps, which honestly is an incredibly underrated feature. Throwing is way easier as your shoulders are almost completely uninhibited (depending on the size of your pads), because the jersey pulls the little shoulder covers back towards the center. I still really dislike the printed, warping numbers and tire tread pattern, but it felt great at least. The pants were less than great. I can't pinpoint what it was about them but they just felt awkward. The PrimeKnit was definitely an upgrade in terms of shoulder-area fit, as I've detailed previously.. The ShockWeb and prior versions failed by having a single yoke strip that went from the collar to the cuff, which limited shape adaptability and overall length of that area.. With PrimeKnit, there is actually a sleeve section added at the end of the yoke, which drastically improves the shape, and working with two panels that cover separate axes proves to allow for more linear coverage and isn't as restrictive from the "length" standpoint (Length from collar to cuff).. A1 seems to build on PrimeKnit in this fashion, which is good, since ShockWeb had it's limitations.. As for the textile discussion, materials can be "stretchy", "elastic", etc.. but again, they can't be inherently tight.. They can be designed to be stretchy for the purpose of creating a tight compression garment out of them, but the material itself isn't tight - just the finished garment, assuming it's smaller than the person wearing it.. If Adidas made a 4XL t-shirt out of PrimeKnit material, it would be baggy on me, as I wear a large.. But a large PrimeKnit jersey, since it's cut and sewn to be a compression garment, would be rather snug on me, as intended.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewharrington Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 9:14 PM, WavePunter said: But a woven fabric shirt in a size 4XL will not be tight on me, while a stretchy knit fabric shirt in a size XXS will be extremely tight on me.. The material in-and-of itself, cannot be tight or loose.. It is 100% dependent upon the cut and sizing.. You can the the "tightest" material ever, and if you use it to create a garment that is cut much looser and sized much bigger, it will not be tight.. Obviously material selection is important in creating a quality garment, but fit is dictated by the cut and size.. That's why when people ask what size you wear, "denim" is never the answer But if you have two garments cut exactly the same, the structure and elasticity of the material will certainly affect the perceived tightness of the fit. You gotta compare apples to apples. The weave or the knit can definitely be tight or loose, which affects the fabric accordingly. I still don't have a website, but I have a dribbble now! http://dribbble.com/andyharry [The postings on this site are my own and do not necessarily represent the position, strategy or opinions of adidas and/or its brands.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WavePunter Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 21 hours ago, andrewharrington said: But if you have two garments cut exactly the same, the structure and elasticity of the material will certainly affect the perceived tightness of the fit. You gotta compare apples to apples. The weave or the knit can definitely be tight or loose, which affects the fabric accordingly. That's after the garment has been sewn into a specific cut and size.. If the cut and size are tight, then the garment will be tight.. If the cut and size are loose, then the garment will be loose.. Material can have or lack elasticity, but it can't, in its own right, be loose or tight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewharrington Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 hours ago, WavePunter said: That's after the garment has been sewn into a specific cut and size.. If the cut and size are tight, then the garment will be tight.. If the cut and size are loose, then the garment will be loose.. Material can have or lack elasticity, but it can't, in its own right, be loose or tight I suppose if you're only evaluating a single garment against your own perceptive criteria, then you're right because there's no comparative baseline. However, when you have *two* garments, in the *same* cut and size, made of *different* materials, the material is the variable. The cut/size is a constant and can not logically be the sole determinant of the fit properties in this case. The structure and elasticity of the differing materials result in different fitting garments even though they are the same cut/size. Another physical example: I have two crewneck sweatshirts. They are the same cut and size. One is garment washed and made of a midweight 100% cotton knit. The other is a heavyweight blended fabric. When I lay them on top of each other, the silhouettes are identical, however, the fit of sweatshirt two is noticeably tighter, not in size, but in the resistance, compression, and recovery of the fabric. Everything else being equal, one fabric sews up into a tighter, less forgiving garment even though the cut and size are identical. Again, this example is not theory; I own these garments, and it is indeed the materials that affect the fit properties in this case. I could cite others, but it's really just a stupid semantic argument. I have physical evidence to support my position that materials can have inherent tightness or looseness that affects a constructed garment accordingly, and I'm good with that. I still don't have a website, but I have a dribbble now! http://dribbble.com/andyharry [The postings on this site are my own and do not necessarily represent the position, strategy or opinions of adidas and/or its brands.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WavePunter Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 4 hours ago, andrewharrington said: I suppose if you're only evaluating a single garment against your own perceptive criteria, then you're right because there's no comparative baseline. However, when you have *two* garments, in the *same* cut and size, made of *different* materials, the material is the variable. The cut/size is a constant and can not logically be the sole determinant of the fit properties in this case. The structure and elasticity of the differing materials result in different fitting garments even though they are the same cut/size. Another physical example: I have two crewneck sweatshirts. They are the same cut and size. One is garment washed and made of a midweight 100% cotton knit. The other is a heavyweight blended fabric. When I lay them on top of each other, the silhouettes are identical, however, the fit of sweatshirt two is noticeably tighter, not in size, but in the resistance, compression, and recovery of the fabric. Everything else being equal, one fabric sews up into a tighter, less forgiving garment even though the cut and size are identical. Again, this example is not theory; I own these garments, and it is indeed the materials that affect the fit properties in this case. I could cite others, but it's really just a stupid semantic argument. I have physical evidence to support my position that materials can have inherent tightness or looseness that affects a constructed garment accordingly, and I'm good with that. Materials, without the parameters of size and cut have absolutely ZERO properties regarding tightness or looseness.. Your sweatshirts are different because they're different.. I also think you're misunderstanding the difference between looseness and elasticity.. You can have a very forgiving, elastic, comfortable, skin tight garment.. It's tight by definition, but elastic and stretchable, so as to not be perceived as tight.. The material itself can have a vast number of properties, but tightness or looseness is not along among them.. Keep in mind: in your primary example, you didn't explain why you have one material that is tighter than the other.. You explained why one sweatshirt is tighter than the other.. And what makes a sweatshirt a sweatshirt is the cut and construction of the material.. If they cut the tighter one more loosely, it would be looser.. If you had it in a larger size, it would be looser.. It's the cut and size that affects tightness or looseness.. Material selection might affect elasticity and comfort, but not the initial fit.. Obviously certain applications call for different materials, but that's a result of function, not sizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabbey520 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Arizona is going to have some changes. Sound minor but I can't say exactly what yet. I'll be able to next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cajunaggie08 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 43 minutes ago, kabbey520 said: Arizona is going to have some changes. Sound minor but I can't say exactly what yet. I'll be able to next week. Id imagine its too short of an off-season for Sumlin to get his yearly alternate option thrown in the mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSU151 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 49 minutes ago, kabbey520 said: Arizona is going to have some changes. Sound minor but I can't say exactly what yet. I'll be able to next week. Hope it's minor changes like new helmets, jerseys, and number font. Smart is believing half of what you hear. Genius is knowing which half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJWalker45 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 16 minutes ago, WSU151 said: Hope it's minor changes like new helmets, jerseys, and number font. Or a change to the original Desert Swarm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabbey520 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 3 hours ago, cajunaggie08 said: Id imagine its too short of an off-season for Sumlin to get his yearly alternate option thrown in the mix. It's something the AD wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shstpt1 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 As long as it gets rid of the monochrome A logo on the one uniform set, and allows for the rest of the pieces to mix and match properly, then I’m fine with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cardsblues02 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 In a perfect world for me, Arizona has 3 helmets: The classic blue helmet with the A, a red helmet with the Wildcat head, and a silver or white helmet with the A. What they have now is too much. It looks like they are wearing tomatoes on their heads sometimes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shstpt1 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 I think they need stripes on the red helmets to break it up a little bit. And whatever they do, bring back stripes on the pants!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSU151 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Cardsblues02 said: In a perfect world for me, Arizona has 3 helmets: The classic blue helmet with the A, a red helmet with the Wildcat head, and a silver or white helmet with the A. What they have now is too much. It looks like they are wearing tomatoes on their heads sometimes! Why would they have a silver helmet? Arizona's red helmets would be 100000x better if they were satin, and a wildcat logo on the sides would probably be pretty cool. Smart is believing half of what you hear. Genius is knowing which half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabbey520 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 On 1/17/2018 at 11:04 AM, WSU151 said: Hope it's minor changes like new helmets, jerseys, and number font. Helmets are cool with me (except for the monochrome A on the blue helmet). But I wouldn't mind new uniforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSU151 Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 29 minutes ago, kabbey520 said: Helmets are cool with me (except for the monochrome A on the blue helmet). But I wouldn't mind new uniforms. The white helmet with no stripes will always be lame, because everyone loves the classic white helmet with stripes. I actually like the navy helmet with the red decal...but also realize it could be better. Smart is believing half of what you hear. Genius is knowing which half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLEstones Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 This thread has too much text and not enough pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsr862 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I admit I miss the dazzle pants. Esp teams that use gold as a primary color. Loved watching night games and just seeing the sparkle in the pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabbey520 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 On 1/19/2018 at 2:38 PM, CLEstones said: This thread has too much text and not enough pictures. Well since the season just ended, there's probably not going to be that much uniform news/pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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