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XFL 2020 Season


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29 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Why do you think that’s a safe bet?  $45,000 qualifies as a full-time wage in a lot of the country. Median household income in the US was just over $59,000 in 2016.

 

I could see McMahon either holding steady on the old salaries or bumping them up a bit.  But doubling?  When he’s the only one fronting the costs?  I don’t know why we should think that. 

On a previous page, I did the calculate in December 2017 terms of multiplying by the CPI. QBs were just under $75K.

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Yeah, but do you think McMahon gives a damn about inflation? Besides, those original numbers were from back when he had NBC to help write the checks. 

 

He’s targeting players who can’t get a pro contract. And paying them entirely out of his own pocket. Why do we think he’ll adjust the old salaries to match inflation? Sense of moral obligation?

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When you're talking about "median income", that stat factors in the least expensive places along with the most.  I guess some people can live on those wages in super rural parts of the country without assistance, and even in the more costly places to live there's still impoverished (and ridiculously unsafe) neighborhoods where people "live" on that ("live" meaning paying rent and eating cat food), that's not going to cut it in any city that a pro-level team is going to look to make money in.

 

At the end of the day, as long as the XFL champions all get to wear title belts, I don't care if they're actually paying to play.

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

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17 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

Yeah, but do you think McMahon gives a damn about inflation? Besides, those original numbers were from back when he had NBC to help write the checks. 

 

He’s targeting players who can’t get a pro contract. And paying them entirely out of his own pocket. Why do we think he’ll adjust the old salaries to match inflation? Sense of moral obligation?

I think he gives a damn about quality and having a better product than 2001.

 

Plus, there's a known CFL average salary of $65K USD with a minimum of $44K  at today's exchange rate, and the unknown* of $50K + benefits of the proposed PACPro League, the brainchild of Don Yee, Tom Brady's agent, which has this summer as a start date (and a couple of theaters here).

 

*-Yee and the league have been radio silent since last June and I haven't read or heard about him on Radio Row this week.

 

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Halftime of the Chicago All Lives Matterers @ San Diego Anthem Respecters, Vince on a headset in his dining room yelling at the truck, "GOD DAMN IT, I want more ASS SHOTS! . . . What do you mean, of the women or the men? BOTH! I want all the ass you can give me, pal! Give the people those NICE, TONED ASSES! Hlah, hlah, hlah! Mmmmm." gonna be great for all parties involved.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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Current practice squad rate equals $117k per season in the NFL. CFL average on a quick search is about $80k (though there's a difference with import and non-import players probably).

 

At $80k a year, funding 40 positions for 8 teams is just over $25 million. There are other player costs involved (medical/insurance) for game/practice injuries but aren't going to be THAT much. The issue is when a player is injured, does he get paid? Pay a replacement, etc.

 

Infrastructure, marketing, PR, front office, and game day expenses are going to be a bit high for each team than I think most notice. Even in NFL, player compensation is barely half the total defined revenues. Paying $25m for players and $75 million for everything else including first year costs should be reasonable. 20,000 tickets at $25/ticket for 5 home games is ONLY $20 million. That's an $80 million bridge that needs crossed. More tickets sold? Crank up the marketing and advertising expenses. You get ROI, but if you fail or the market sours or is disinterested, you can lose a lot more faster. Advertising is where the big money will be probably the first year. You can't charge for TV. It just won't work. It has to be free and advertising-supported.

 

What online-streaming CAN do is data-mining. Advertisers can possibly KNOW that someone watched an ad instead of clicked to a different window (you want data, your streaming service has to do this). Real-time advertiser questionaire (did you watch? Like? Will you buy? etc). All that can add money. Unlike television, XFL/Alpha could have a treasure trove of marketing data they can sell their advertisers. And use for when recruiting new sponsors.

 

Now, will someone PAY the XFL to air their games and take all of the airing revenue or will XFL pay to stream their games on a service (or make their own, though tie-ins to established brands like Twitter, Amazon or YouTube makes more sense) and then reap all the advertising revenue themselves.

 

There's so much the XFL can do when not burdened by tradition that the Big Four are to terrestrial networks, DirecTV, etc. They can start from scratch. And it might be possible that XFL winds up with a game of the week on FS1/FS2 while plastering their other games all over Twitter/Amazon, etc.

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21 hours ago, Sykotyk said:

Current practice squad rate equals $117k per season in the NFL. CFL average on a quick search is about $80k (though there's a difference with import and non-import players probably).

 

At $80k a year, funding 40 positions for 8 teams is just over $25 million. There are other player costs involved (medical/insurance) for game/practice injuries but aren't going to be THAT much. The issue is when a player is injured, does he get paid? Pay a replacement, etc.

 

Infrastructure, marketing, PR, front office, and game day expenses are going to be a bit high for each team than I think most notice. Even in NFL, player compensation is barely half the total defined revenues. Paying $25m for players and $75 million for everything else including first year costs should be reasonable. 20,000 tickets at $25/ticket for 5 home games is ONLY $20 million. That's an $80 million bridge that needs crossed. More tickets sold? Crank up the marketing and advertising expenses. You get ROI, but if you fail or the market sours or is disinterested, you can lose a lot more faster. Advertising is where the big money will be probably the first year. You can't charge for TV. It just won't work. It has to be free and advertising-supported.

 

What online-streaming CAN do is data-mining. Advertisers can possibly KNOW that someone watched an ad instead of clicked to a different window (you want data, your streaming service has to do this). Real-time advertiser questionaire (did you watch? Like? Will you buy? etc). All that can add money. Unlike television, XFL/Alpha could have a treasure trove of marketing data they can sell their advertisers. And use for when recruiting new sponsors.

 

Now, will someone PAY the XFL to air their games and take all of the airing revenue or will XFL pay to stream their games on a service (or make their own, though tie-ins to established brands like Twitter, Amazon or YouTube makes more sense) and then reap all the advertising revenue themselves.

 

There's so much the XFL can do when not burdened by tradition that the Big Four are to terrestrial networks, DirecTV, etc. They can start from scratch. And it might be possible that XFL winds up with a game of the week on FS1/FS2 while plastering their other games all over Twitter/Amazon, etc.

Keep in mind, CFL salaries are in $CND, so that 80K is approx. 65K $USD.

 

Vince also said they were going to play on Sundays, so the cable networks would have to work around their current NCAA basketball contracted commitments and NASCAR for both FOX/FS1, depending on the race. 

 

The PGA will remain with CBS and NBC through 2021, so outside of the events on Golf Channel, CBS and NBC split weekend rounds in February and March.

 

March has Turner properties busy with NCAA men's tournament, espn2 the women's. CBSSN could air it, but CBS, Inc. doesn't even pay Nielsen to rate them.

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9 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

And due to that, I"m not sure how I could feel any local attachment to a branch that's based in my area.  It's kinda like rooting for your local target to sell more Champion C9 sports bras than Chicago's Target.

 

That's all of professional sports:  do you root for IBM or Coca-Cola.  The only difference is who the shareholders are.  If anything you pull for the league as a whole to make it, just so there's an alternative out there.  So a sport isn't a monopoly at its highest level.  We're Americans.  We pull for the underdog.  And in this, XFL will be the underdog.

 

4 hours ago, Sykotyk said:

Current practice squad rate equals $117k per season in the NFL. CFL average on a quick search is about $80k (though there's a difference with import and non-import players probably).

 

At $80k a year, funding 40 positions for 8 teams is just over $25 million. There are other player costs involved (medical/insurance) for game/practice injuries but aren't going to be THAT much. The issue is when a player is injured, does he get paid? Pay a replacement, etc.

 

Infrastructure, marketing, PR, front office, and game day expenses are going to be a bit high for each team than I think most notice. Even in NFL, player compensation is barely half the total defined revenues. Paying $25m for players and $75 million for everything else including first year costs should be reasonable. 20,000 tickets at $25/ticket for 5 home games is ONLY $20 million. That's an $80 million bridge that needs crossed. More tickets sold? Crank up the marketing and advertising expenses. You get ROI, but if you fail or the market sours or is disinterested, you can lose a lot more faster. Advertising is where the big money will be probably the first year. You can't charge for TV. It just won't work. It has to be free and advertising-supported.

 

What online-streaming CAN do is data-mining. Advertisers can possibly KNOW that someone watched an ad instead of clicked to a different window (you want data, your streaming service has to do this). Real-time advertiser questionaire (did you watch? Like? Will you buy? etc). All that can add money. Unlike television, XFL/Alpha could have a treasure trove of marketing data they can sell their advertisers. And use for when recruiting new sponsors.

 

Now, will someone PAY the XFL to air their games and take all of the airing revenue or will XFL pay to stream their games on a service (or make their own, though tie-ins to established brands like Twitter, Amazon or YouTube makes more sense) and then reap all the advertising revenue themselves.

 

There's so much the XFL can do when not burdened by tradition that the Big Four are to terrestrial networks, DirecTV, etc. They can start from scratch. And it might be possible that XFL winds up with a game of the week on FS1/FS2 while plastering their other games all over Twitter/Amazon, etc.

 

I doubt player salaries are going to average out at $80K/year in the XFL, but it's possible.  The original league averaged around $25/ticket and sold a million; there's no reason to expect less than that unless they pick truly lousy markets for teams.  The start-up costs are huge, but in this regard the XFL was an abberration - they didn't expect it to last only one year; the $70 WWE and NFL lost was predominately start-up costs.

 

A terrestrial or even cable network television partner is beneficial for credibility, but I think (believe it or not) unessential for survival.  I think you've hit the nail on the head - they're going to take the XFL to streaming services in a partnership that aims to mainstream both, in the process doing all you mention and more (the original XFL presented the overhead cam; I believe the new XFL's stream will introduce simultaneous multi-camera viewing).  Whatever it's going to be?  It's going to be innovative.

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8 hours ago, Mac the Knife said:

 

That's all of professional sports:  do you root for IBM or Coca-Cola.  The only difference is who the shareholders are.  If anything you pull for the league as a whole to make it, just so there's an alternative out there.  So a sport isn't a monopoly at its highest level.  We're Americans.  We pull for the underdog.  And in this, XFL will be the underdog.

 

 

I doubt player salaries are going to average out at $80K/year in the XFL, but it's possible.  The original league averaged around $25/ticket and sold a million; there's no reason to expect less than that unless they pick truly lousy markets for teams.  The start-up costs are huge, but in this regard the XFL was an abberration - they didn't expect it to last only one year; the $70 WWE and NFL lost was predominately start-up costs.

 

A terrestrial or even cable network television partner is beneficial for credibility, but I think (believe it or not) unessential for survival.  I think you've hit the nail on the head - they're going to take the XFL to streaming services in a partnership that aims to mainstream both, in the process doing all you mention and more (the original XFL presented the overhead cam; I believe the new XFL's stream will introduce simultaneous multi-camera viewing).  Whatever it's going to be?  It's going to be innovative.

Vince did mention about multiple telecast options. Picking your camera view is one. Choosing which commentators (or just sounds of the game), check stats at your leisure. Integrated daily fantasy, etc. 

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2 hours ago, GDAWG said:

I read one suggestion online that the XFL could do something more innovative than the NFL and says that it could be something like placing a microchip inside the football to determine the actual spot of the football.   

 

You'd have to literally line the whole pigskin with chips or sensors, since the ball could be in any position when the player goes down.  If you put in just the tips (hehe), then if the ball is sideways and the fat part crosses the line by an inch, it's missed.  Also I'm not sure how they'd actually spot the ball.  GPS (like google maps) isn't accurate enough to get it to the precise inch, and that's really what we're talking about.  

 

What they'd have to do is also put sensors / chips / whatever on the field every 5 yards (or maybe even every yard), and then have some system that uses geometry to detect where the ball is - kinda like how touch-screens work.  

 

All i'm sayin' is that chips in balls doesn't solve the problem.

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

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On 2/1/2018 at 7:22 PM, BringBackTheVet said:

And due to that, I"m not sure how I could feel any local attachment to a branch that's based in my area.  It's kinda like rooting for your local target to sell more Champion C9 sports bras than Chicago's Target.

 

Now that I understand MLS's model, I can get behind that.  As a non-fan, I'm a fan.  I totally get why Vince has it set up this way, and I'm sure I'm in the minority in my views, but I think I'd just end up being skeptical of every "local' event they did and feel like they're just some faceless arm of a faceless (well, actually Vince's face) corporation.

That's the problem.

 

People like to go on about each of the "Big Four" being singular entities, but that's not really true. You only have to look at the internal conflict in the NFL over who got to move to LA to see that these leagues, as in lockstep as they may seem at times, are still made out of 30-32 separate entities.

With the XFL? You've got one entity. Using LA as an example again? You can be a Rams fan, and despise the 49ers. With the XFL (using the first version's teams) you can be an Extreme fan because you're an XFL fan in the market, but do you really hate the Demons? It's all the same money behind it all.

 

Ultimately it's the same problem Vince's competitors in wrestling face. The WWE is the "mainstream" pro wrestling brand. Very few people are fans of WWE as an entity. Rather there are WWE wrestlers they like. The company itself, however, doesn't garner much loyalty. It doesn't need to. They're the mainstream wrestling company. Most people watch the shows because that's what wrestling is to the vast majority of the audience.

Meanwhile competitors like TNA and ROH (and ECW back in the day) back themselves into a corner. These smaller wrestling promotions push the narrative of David vs Goliath, and as such the smaller promotions foster an attitude amongst their audiences that places the company above individual wrestlers. You're a fan of TNA or ROH first and foremost, and fans of Austin Aries and Dalton Castle second.

 

Which is, interestingly enough, what the XFL was, and will be. It'll be less about fans of teams, and more fans of the "XFL" in general.

Being a fan of the company first and foremost never really works in wrestling (as rabid as the ECW or ROH fanbases were/are? they're not the companies filling the Superdome for the biggest show of the year). And I'm not sure it can work in football.

 

Being a fan of a league with little reason to grow attached to the local team won't be as appealing as the idea of being a fan of an independent team in your local community. You can argue that this isn't really how the NFL works, but the NFL and their teams have done a successful job instilling that idea in the minds of their fans.

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7 hours ago, GDAWG said:

I read one suggestion online that the XFL could do something more innovative than the NFL and says that it could be something like placing a microchip inside the football to determine the actual spot of the football.   

 

4 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

You'd have to literally line the whole pigskin with chips or sensors, since the ball could be in any position when the player goes down.  If you put in just the tips (hehe), then if the ball is sideways and the fat part crosses the line by an inch, it's missed.  Also I'm not sure how they'd actually spot the ball.  GPS (like google maps) isn't accurate enough to get it to the precise inch, and that's really what we're talking about.  

 

What they'd have to do is also put sensors / chips / whatever on the field every 5 yards (or maybe even every yard), and then have some system that uses geometry to detect where the ball is - kinda like how touch-screens work.  

 

All i'm sayin' is that chips in balls doesn't solve the problem.

 

NHL tried this, briefly, in the 90s but the most they got out of it was the glowing puck and the flaming slapshot. The tech back then wasn't strong enough to coordinate precise location.

 

For a football, you could place the chip with the laces, and include a very small gyroscope to know direction/tilt/etc. Just a few honing beacons around the field could pick up the data. You know the dimensions of the ball, so determining what position it is in is all that's needed. Secondly, any type of chip would be for secondary confirmation. Such as in a pile, or a fumble, etc. Something that wasn't readily available to the video camera. It wouldn't have to be 100% correct when visible. Since simple GoPros in the pylons work just as well as any other tech.

 

The basis though is that the XFL i starting with a fresh rule book. You could just make the rule of a touchdown what you want. That's the whole 'reimagined'. You don't have to just tweak NFL rules. You could start over and think of a better way.

 

NFL and college is built on decades upon decades of slow, methodical tweaks that yield things like the Touchdown-PAT-Commercial-Kickoff-Commercial-First Play sequences. They didn't sit down one day and say "this is a great way to pace a game." It just happened little by little. Passing rules grossly favoring offenses and teams with good QBs? Same thing. It wasn't premeditated. But they couldn't just say "yeah, some grabbing or holding IS allowed". In the age of the slo-mo replay in HD, every little jersey tug and uncovered sneeze gets called, or at least should by rule.

 

They can just change that. Maybe make holding having a time limit? Maybe a 'grab and release' intepretation for defenders and linemen? Maybe let them have a second?  A step? Two steps? There's ways to reimagine how the game should be played given what we know about how players perform compared to what you saw back in the 70s where 20 TDs by a QB was a great season.

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9 hours ago, Ice_Cap said:

Ultimately it's the same problem Vince's competitors in wrestling face. The WWE is the "mainstream" pro wrestling brand. Very few people are fans of WWE as an entity. Rather there are WWE wrestlers they like. The company itself, however, doesn't garner much loyalty. It doesn't need to. They're the mainstream wrestling company. Most people watch the shows because that's what wrestling is to the vast majority of the audience.

Meanwhile competitors like TNA and ROH (and ECW back in the day) back themselves into a corner. These smaller wrestling promotions push the narrative of David vs Goliath, and as such the smaller promotions foster an attitude amongst their audiences that places the company above individual wrestlers. You're a fan of TNA or ROH first and foremost, and fans of Austin Aries and Dalton Castle second.

 

That was literally Heyman's whole thing with ECW - and it worked to perfection, and was the precursor to everything we see today.  ECW was sticking it to the big guy, and heels / faces / it didn't matter - everyone was on the same side, and he created an atmosphere that made you feel like a player on that team.  It just won't work with a sports league.

 

It's actually a lot like the old Howard Stern model that's been copied a million times since.  He made his audience feel like part of something bigger than them, to the point where his audience was attacking rival shows, and berating anyone that dared listen to one of his competitors.  It's brilliant.  But again, for reasons you mentioned, can never work the way Vince needs it to - unless his target market is youngsters that don't know better.

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

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1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

Or, if they’re actually serious about making the game safer, they could ban the 3-point stance outright and do something to control contact at the line.

 

Those safety measures would help. I'm convinced banning hard plastic helmets and shoulder pads is the big answer. The players use them as weapons and they don't absorb impact across the entire surface which causes the brain sloshing around in the noggin and bumping up against the skull which is what causes degenerative brain issues. A helmet to helmet hit is dangerous, but so is a guy driving a shoulder covered in plastic into somebody's dome. People focus on those hits when a safety destroys a wide receiver in the open field, but it happens on almost every other play just in the process of tackling a guy. It's unavoidable. 

 

I want someone to test this - a soft, but thick foam rubber (like the thickness of this pool float) helmet with facial protection (like this boxing helmet) and then use the same padding on knees and shoulder pads. Players would be less likely to use their heads as tackling instruments and in my non-scientific theory the soft material would better absorb the impact of a head on head collision. Like an egg drop, but human brains are the yolk and the skull is the shell. 

 

 

 

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Keep in mind, even if players are tackling correctly, heads do tend to slam into the turf, and get hit by knees and sometimes feet, so I’m not sure eliminating or reducing protection would have the intended effect. 

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

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