Gothamite

How much can you "update" a classic?

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1 hour ago, andrewharrington said:

 

Well, being completely over-designed, but-a$$ ugly, and a complete nightmare for an equipment manager and/or lettering shop isn’t *technically* a crime.

 

The Islanders have so much potential. I hope one day they pull it all together.

 

I don't think it was ugly at all.  It just shouldn't have replaced a look that was associated with a dynasty.  It could be argued that they went overboard with the wavy stripes and watery numbers but I still think the navy version was a striking look.  It would make a far better alternate look than any third they've released since.

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On 1/11/2018 at 7:06 AM, SFGiants58 said:

 

Winning the division every year for over a decade and failing to net more than one championship shouldn't be celebrated, it should be considered embarrassing for both the team and their division. It should put them in the same boat as the St. Louis Blues of the '80s-'00s.

 

I’m scared my Dodgers are heading this way.

 

At least their jersey tweaks haven’t been too bad (and I love the LA on the sleeve). I can wear my replica jersey I purchased in 2002 and still match the team somewhat. Same goes for my friend that bought hers back in 1982 (at least the home jersey).

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As seen on this very website, the Penguins updated the skating penguin logo on their uniform with the introduction of the Vegas gold alternate. I've gone back and forth on which one I like better - the new penguin is definitely cleaner but I feel that the changes made to the eye take away some of its character. Interesting to note that they actually had been using the "new" design on t-shirts and graphics in the early 90's, but the logo on their sweaters didn't match.

 

36ai6de8ef0svi6hiugcgpwjl.png6362_pittsburgh_penguins-primary-2017.pn

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5 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Did they have multiple versions of each NOB letter depending on its placement?

 

obviously they did for the numbers, like the blues used to. 

 

Yep - looks like they had at least a “downward” and “upward” version of each letter for the nameplate. 

 

22170.jpg

 

Ye gods, what a nightmare that must have been for the equipment staff.  

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17 hours ago, Morgo said:

 

I don't think it was ugly at all.  It just shouldn't have replaced a look that was associated with a dynasty.  It could be argued that they went overboard with the wavy stripes and watery numbers but I still think the navy version was a striking look.  It would make a far better alternate look than any third they've released since.

 

It would have had a much better chance at success if they had just changed the color and kept the composition a bit more traditional, though I still don't think it would have lasted long. I actually like the color scheme, but it's a tough thing to pull of for the Islanders.

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6 hours ago, Andy said:

As seen on this very website, the Penguins updated the skating penguin logo on their uniform with the introduction of the Vegas gold alternate. I've gone back and forth on which one I like better - the new penguin is definitely cleaner but I feel that the changes made to the eye take away some of its character. Interesting to note that they actually had been using the "new" design on t-shirts and graphics in the early 90's, but the logo on their sweaters didn't match.

 

36ai6de8ef0svi6hiugcgpwjl.png6362_pittsburgh_penguins-primary-2017.pn

 

I'll be honest. I think this is less the result of an intentional change and more the result of a logo devolving over time. The "copy of a copy" syndrome that plagues so many old logos. The softened detail in the gloves is the giveaway for me. There could be a bit of both. The left one may have been the print logo, while the crest always had more uniform line widths for embroidery, for example.

 

3 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Yep - looks like they had at least a “downward” and “upward” version of each letter for the nameplate. 

 

22170.jpg

 

Ye gods, what a nightmare that must have been for the equipment staff.  

 

I'd bet they were set and then warped digitally, then either printed and used as a guide for hand cutting, or laser cut from the digital file. Same process for vertical arches.

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13 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

 

I'll be honest. I think this is less the result of an intentional change and more the result of a logo devolving over time. The "copy of a copy" syndrome that plagues so many old logos. The softened detail in the gloves is the giveaway for me. 

 

Holy :censored:, you’re absolutely right. Looks like they ran a copy of the logo through some kind of vectorization software - a human artist would recognize the lines on the gloves for what they are and preserve the shapes.  A computer only sees white blobs against black and rounds them off a bit. 

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5 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Yep - looks like they had at least a “downward” and “upward” version of each letter for the nameplate. 

 

22170.jpg

 

Ye gods, what a nightmare that must have been for the equipment staff.  

"Does this look crooked to you?"

 

"Forget it, Jake. It's the Fishsticks."

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On 1/10/2018 at 12:06 PM, RichO said:

 

I think the 90s 49ers serve as a kind of outer boundary. Go further, and there be dragons. They worked a lot of extra on there and managed to have it still stay on the side of ok-to-good.

 

The hard one for me is where the Falcons fall. Was it too much? 

 

*Sigh* I don't know. Was it? They added detail and color and attitude to the logo, but they also moved from a fantastic uniform set (1997-2002 Falcons had one of my favorite looks in NFL history) to "ooh, look how 2003 we are with our piping and our overly busy design!"

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7 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Yep - looks like they had at least a “downward” and “upward” version of each letter for the nameplate. 

 

Ye gods, what a nightmare that must have been for the equipment staff.  

 

It looks like they may have had straight or straitish versions too.  There would need to be more than just a down and up slope version of each.

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1 hour ago, Ark said:

The Islanders should use this as an alternate

 

Image00025.jpg

 

You either go full Fisherman, or you don't bother. The in-between is too awkward to really have that same "so bad, it's good" pull. 

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45 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

It looks like they may have had straight or straitish versions too.  There would need to be more than just a down and up slope version of each.

 

It’s too complex a curve to make separate individual letters skewed to various angles. It would be a nightmare for an equipment team to house the proper inventory and piece together a name like that.

 

Instead, they’d digitally warp the text (or create an envelope or path to type on), then either use a printout as a physical pattern for hand cutting, or use the digital file to have a laser or knife plotter cut the letters of each name.

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11 hours ago, andrewharrington said:

 

It’s too complex a curve to make separate individual letters skewed to various angles. It would be a nightmare for an equipment team to house the proper inventory and piece together a name like that.

 

Instead, they’d digitally warp the text (or create an envelope or path to type on), then either use a printout as a physical pattern for hand cutting, or use the digital file to have a laser or knife plotter cut the letters of each name.

 

 

So if they needed an emergency jersey, they'd need for the local seamstress to be able to (simplifying it obv) go into computer, use Word Art or whatever graphics tools were available then to warp the text to the right shape based on some template, then print it, trace the printed letters onto twill, cut the twill, then stitch it on to the jersey?  Doesn't seem like a task that's getting completed in the few hours notice that they usually have when there's a call-up or injury replacement.

 

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10 hours ago, the admiral said:

They must have had the really good version of Photoshop in 1995. I don't even remember having vector text then.

 

Illustrator also existed at the time, albeit with fewer abilities. Envelope distort and "text on path" would have been in a pretty primitive state at the time.

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8 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

 

So if they needed an emergency jersey, they'd need for the local seamstress to be able to (simplifying it obv) go into computer, use Word Art or whatever graphics tools were available then to warp the text to the right shape based on some template, then print it, trace the printed letters onto twill, cut the twill, then stitch it on to the jersey?  Doesn't seem like a task that's getting completed in the few hours notice that they usually have when there's a call-up or injury replacement.

 

 

If it was truly an emergency, they’d probably just draw it out freehand and hand cut it, but yeah, what you described would be the process. Teams typically have their local lettering shop on notice, so while it sounds like a time consuming process, it’s really not, especially nowadays when they’d be cut with a laser or knife plotter. The same process is used for vertical arches. They don’t stock a dozen different skews of each letter. That would be a nightmare, especially if the lettering was multiple layer.

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Yes, but isn’t that one of the reasons teams don’t use vertical arching as much anymore?  I recall the Braves specifically citing that when they switched to radially arched names. 

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