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Chief Wahoo Departs: Indians remove logo from brand in 2019

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15 minutes ago, -Akronite- said:

 

 

The N-Word is worse that Redskin. Most people would agree that it is in fact the worst racial slur around, because we understand the context and history of the word and what it meant to a population of enslaved Americans and their descendants. Redskins, for various reasons, has been normalized in a lot of ways. But just because there are worse examples, it doesn't mean that makes it okay. People are willing to say the word Chink or Oriental, while we literally write out N-Word instead of the actual word.

 

It is highly unlikely that any team would name themselves the N-Words, and there happens to be one example of a Native high school using Redskin. Yes, I agree they aren't at the same level (in large part because it's hard to find actual Natives to offend). But there is a huge difference between a group reclaiming a word and that same word being exploited by white billionaires. There just is. If an Asian High School decided to go by Orientals, to reclaim the word, would that make it okay in pro sports?

 

Having visited the St. Regis Mohawk reservation several times - most of them before the bingo hall and casino were built - I can say that the word r*dskin is not uttered to "reclaim" it.  Most of us were taught that the word is a synonym for pelt, proof of kill.  (And I can't tell you on here what squaw really means!)

 

 

 

Back on the Wahoo.  It's about time it's been eliminated.  Some better, brighter, and more famous Native American writers and journalists have called the logo "LIttle Red Sambo."

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42 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

 

The remaining assets of the Spiders were sold after the 1899 disaster and merged with a team in the minor American/Western league until it became a major league, with the club being called the Lake Shores, the Blues, and ultimately, the Indians.

 

It’s not tidy, but there is lineage there.

 

Then in that case, Let’s Go Spiders!!!

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5 hours ago, Bill81361 said:

 

 

MOD EDIT

Edited by Brian in Boston

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52 minutes ago, Bill81361 said:

 


The difference, as I see it, between the use of Native American-themed team identities and that of the Fighting Irish is quite simple.

By and large, in this country, the people who have historically made the decisions to brand various professional, college, and high school athletic teams with Native American names and iconography have not been Native Americans themselves. Rather, they've been Caucasians who have misappropriated names and symbols tied to Native American culture and elected to use said cultural property - often, deeply meaningful to the tribal nations it belongs to - to market what amounts to a fairly frivolous pursuit... the staging of athletic competition. Worse still, is when non-Native Americans have passed off bastardized and caricatured  takes - i.e. Chief Wahoo - on purported Native American culture in order to brand athletic teams and programs.

The Notre Dame Fighting Irish? Historically, a significant percentage of the people calling the shots about adopting, embracing and maintaining said identity have been of Irish American extraction themselves. So, it isn't as if Irish culture has been misappropriated and twisted by members of some other culture altogether. Rather, at most, it can be argued that a not insignificant number of Irish Americans have been complicit in bastardizing their own culture by championing the Fighting Irish brand. Also, utilizing a mythical creature - the leprechaun - as a mascot is a bit different than using depictions of actual Native Americans.             

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First Take, that American cornerstone of sports journalism without sensationalism.

 

Max Kellerman needs to go back to boxing where nobody needs to hear what he has to say, even by accident.

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It's a separate matter whether or not Dan Snyder can be compelled to not use Redskins. 

 

Dropping that name is still the right thing to do.

 

We've seen it time and again that fanbases eventually get over the name change. Marquette got over it, St. John's got over it, Miami (OH) got over it. The second that Washington Redtails make the Super Bowl all the belly aching goes out the window. As it stands right now, the Washington football club gets its public perception periodically dragged through the mud every fall when the rest of the country rolls its eyes at how dumb it is to still be using a slur for the team name. Change then name and all that goes away permanently and 5 years and one playoff birth later nobody will care. 

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2 minutes ago, Carolingian Steamroller said:

As it stands right now, the Washington football club gets its public perception periodically dragged through the mud every fall when the rest of the country rolls its eyes at how dumb it is to still be using a slur for the team name.

Most of the country doesn't really care. It's just a media-junkie cause. Lots of people don't even like sports.

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13 minutes ago, the admiral said:

Most of the country doesn't really care. It's just a media-junkie cause. Lots of people don't even like sports.

 

It's still embarrassing PR that necessitates periodic push back and it keeps building in pressure. Ditching Redskins isn't going to hurt the franchise in the long run. Why bother coping with the hassle every few months when there's no long term cost to changing the name?

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the comparisons of Wahoo to either the Notre Dame or Vikings logo are so purposefully ignorant and have been dealt with and dismissed so many times before, I don't know why you keep dignifying them when they get regurgitated YET AGAIN with any kind of response? 

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Crackerjack point, the team has no brand equity whatsoever and has only kept all this stuff around for the past 40 years because every time they try to order new stuff, they get put on hold, "The Girl From Ipanema" plays for 20 minutes, and the guy from the marketing department gets frustrated and hangs up, it's as cherished an annual tradition there as signing a player who busts.

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https://www.irishcentral.com/opinion/others/outdated-and-offensive-the-redskins-and-notre-dames-leprechaun-229519311-238259701

 

Quote

The Irish have long been portrayed as unintelligent, drunken brawlers and many feel that the Fighting Irish logo only helps to foster this stereotypical image.

“I think you are going to see a movement to replace that silly looking leprechaun with something more respectable,” said Sean K. an Irish American College student, who currently attends NYU. 

“That image of Irish Americans is not only far outdated but also offensive,” remarked the student.  

 

Didn't anyone tell them the Irish name/logo isn't offensive? I guess they'll just have to suck it up. 

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There's equity there, but its not invaluable (if anything the color scheme has far more value). Time and again we see sports organizations that change names or logos recover their equity with fans in a comparatively short time. Especially if the team wins championships. 

 

The cost to keep that particular name, over the long term, exceeds the costs of changing the name in the short term. 

 

The 2000 Flying Elvis New England Patriots design is one of the stupidest looking logo/uniform combinations in all of sports. It's infinitely inferior to the Pat Patriot era in almost every conceivable way. None of that matters, however, because they've won 5 Super Bowls in those ugly uniforms. If Washington ditches the name and wins football games, nobody is jumping off the bandwagon. 

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4 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Hey look - you found an ESPN talking head taking a provocative stand looking for attention.  That must have taken a while.

MOD EDIT

 

Edited by Brian in Boston
Please limit your comments to the topic at hand, rather then engaging in personal confrontations. Thank you.

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4 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Hey look - you found an ESPN talking head taking a provocative stand looking for attention.  That must have taken a while.

MOD EDIT

 

Edited by Brian in Boston

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3 hours ago, Bill81361 said:

Oh look, more witty repertoire with a cutting sense of flair only someone from NY can deliver.   :rolleyes: Have another mic drop on me.  Feel free to send more offline.

MOD EDIT

Edited by Brian in Boston

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3 hours ago, skip88 said:

MOD EDIT

 

Not at all.  And when Leprechaun-Americans issue their press release against Notre Dame's logo, I will gladly listen to them.  ;) 

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MOD EDIT

Edited by Brian in Boston

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3 hours ago, Gothamite said:

MOD EDIT

MOD EDIT

Edited by Brian in Boston
If you truly feel inclined to continue this exchange, please do so via private messaging. Thank you.

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2 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Not at all.  And when Leprechaun-Americans issue their press release against Notre Dame's logo, I will gladly listen to them.  ;) 

They are called the fighting Irish, and the mascot is someone putting their fists up.  Even more stereotypical and racist than a smiling Indian.

Cleveland should not have gotten rid of Wahoo, they could have changed his overly red skin to the skin tone of the Chicago Blackhawks logo. A nice compromise,   

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