Death of the Alliance of American Football

[Mac the Knife]

1 hour ago, WideRight said:

Not that I don't love the WLAF inside scoop, but this is a thread about the AAF.   So, could we wind our way back to the Alliance?

 

My question now, with everyone expecting the name, identity and logo roll out this month, does the AAF do this as one big press conference or do they spread it out over a couple of weeks, with each team having a roll out announcement with a few key players on hand to perhaps model the uniforms?

 

What's your best guess?

 

Unlike the city announcements, I suspect they release all the identities at once, or at least within a very tight schedule if they decide to go the "announce each team's name in its own city" route.  Joe Bosack almost certainly has the majority if not all of them "in the can" by now, so if they were going to 'trickle them out,' they'd likely have already started doing that by now.  Then again, the way these guys are operating anything's possible.

[NYC Cosmos]

I think they will do it all at once. The MLS did that, and I think the XFL did that as well. 

[GDAWG]

I would like for once one of these spring leagues try new cities.  Why do these leagues always go Birmingham, San Antonio and Memphis rather than different markets?  I don't think 30 years ago back in 1988 the NFL would have teams in cities like Nashville, Charlotte, Jacksonville and Las Vegas (when the Raiders move there) 30 years later. 

[Mac the Knife]

21 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

I would like for once one of these spring leagues try new cities.  Why do these leagues always go Birmingham, San Antonio and Memphis rather than different markets?  I don't think 30 years ago back in 1988 the NFL would have teams in cities like Nashville, Charlotte, Jacksonville and Las Vegas (when the Raiders move there) 30 years later. 

 

Like... where, for example?  

And more to the point, if it were your money on the table, would you think the same way?

[GDAWG]

1 hour ago, Mac the Knife said:

 

Like... where, for example?  

And more to the point, if it were your money on the table, would you think the same way?

 

I would like to see a league at least make an attempt at Albuquerque, Hartford, Oklahoma City, Portland, Brooklyn (for the NYC market), Shreveport or Mobile or Mississippi, Anaheim/Inland Empire (Los Angeles) and Columbus or Louisville or Virginia.  Maybe El Paso and Omaha too.  Instead these leagues always go with San Antonio, Birmingham and Memphis (and maybe they would have gone with Las Vegas too had they not finally gotten a seat at the adults table thanks to Mark Davis).  The AAF was smart to choose San Diego instead of Sacramento.  San Antonio is a bigger city that Albuquerque, but Albuquerque is a unique market that I am surprised none of the spring leagues have ever tried. 

[dfwabel]

1 hour ago, GDAWG said:

 

I would like to see a league at least make an attempt at Albuquerque, Hartford, Oklahoma City, Portland, Brooklyn (for the NYC market), Shreveport or Mobile or Mississippi, Anaheim/Inland Empire (Los Angeles) and Columbus or Louisville or Virginia.  Maybe El Paso and Omaha too.  Instead these leagues always go with San Antonio, Birmingham and Memphis (and maybe they would have gone with Las Vegas too had they not finally gotten a seat at the adults table thanks to Mark Davis).  The AAF was smart to choose San Diego instead of Sacramento.  San Antonio is a bigger city that Albuquerque, but Albuquerque is a unique market that I am surprised none of the spring leagues have ever tried. 

Anaheim/OC: Would bring less of an audience than you think.

Lousiville: A team there in the spring during basketball season?

El Paso/Albuquerque: As I stated in the XFL thread regarding both cities. El Paso is 68th in MSA population but an even more underwhelming 90th in GDP. ABQ is 60th and 64th respectively. Even if you account for those in Juarez, not enough money there. Plus, the Sun Bowl is dump.

Omaha: See Louisville.

Mobile:  Ladd-Peebles Stadium is just as $hitty as Birmingham'sLegion Field, but at least Birmingham is building a replacement...both the city and county won't even work with South Alabama for an on-campus stadium.  

OKC:  Where would they play?  That municipal HS stadium used by the OKC Energy? 

[Brian in Boston]

3 hours ago, GDAWG said:

 

I would like to see a league at least make an attempt at Albuquerque, Hartford, Oklahoma City, Portland, Brooklyn (for the NYC market), Shreveport or Mobile or Mississippi, Anaheim/Inland Empire (Los Angeles) and Columbus or Louisville or Virginia.  Maybe El Paso and Omaha too. 

 

More than half of those markets actually have had franchises from alternative pro football leagues set up shop in them.
 

Hartford Colonials - United Football League
Portland Storm / Portland Thunder - World Football League
Portland Breakers - United States Football League
Brooklyn Bolts - Fall Experimental Football League
Shreveport Steamer - World Football League
Shreveport Pirates - Canadian Football League
Southern California (Anaheim) Sun - World Football League
Ohio (Columbus) Glory - World League of American Football
Virginia (Virginia Beach) Destroyers - United Football League 
Omaha Nighthawks - United Football League
Omaha Mammoths - Fall Experimental Football League

[GDAWG]

So I guess there are zero new markets that these leagues can go to and in the future all Spring football leagues will announce teams in Memphis, Birmingham, Orlando and San Antonio.

 

 

[dfwabel]

28 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

So I guess there are zero new markets that these leagues can go to and in the future all Spring football leagues will announce teams in Memphis, Birmingham, Orlando and San Antonio.

 

 

San Antonio just put $60M into the Alamodome.

 

Orlando renovationed the Citrus Bowl into Camping World Stadium.

 

Birmingham will break ground on new stadium downtown in 2019.

 

So yea, they are going to be desirable for alt-football.

[Mac the Knife]

43 minutes ago, GDAWG said:

So I guess there are zero new markets that these leagues can go to and in the future all Spring football leagues will announce teams in Memphis, Birmingham, Orlando and San Antonio.

 

There are markets I think worthy of consideration as well:  Albuquerque, Omaha, Des Moines, Wichita, El Paso, Savannah, Richmond and Colorado Springs come to mind, for example; but they have to have both the demographics and the facilities for it to work in those markets.

[CrimsonBull9584]

I'll admit that when I heard Birmingham was one of the locations, I was taken back. I'd like to know what makes Birmingham a viable city for this league and why it had been chosen in the past for the other leagues. And if it's so coveted by the other leagues, why hasn't the NFL made their way there yet? Just thinking out loud. 

[GDAWG]

I heard this was the reaction of Las Vegas when they heard that they won't be in either XFL or AAF:

 

 

[Wings]

1 hour ago, CrimsonBull9584 said:

I'll admit that when I heard Birmingham was one of the locations, I was taken back. I'd like to know what makes Birmingham a viable city for this league and why it had been chosen in the past for the other leagues. And if it's so coveted by the other leagues, why hasn't the NFL made their way there yet? Just thinking out loud. 

 

It's too small for the NFL but it's always been viable for minor league football. 

[Gothamite]

7 hours ago, Wings said:

It's too small for the NFL but it's always been viable for minor league football. 

 

That’s far from proven.

 

Minor league football has always had the smell of desperation about it.  They can’t compete in major markets, so they keep trying to tap cities like this one. 

[leopard88]

The Americans/Vulcans led the WFL in attendance in both years of the league's existence and averaged approximately 30,000 over two years --

 

1974 -- 37,135

1975 -- 23,819 (in the middle of the death throes of the league).

 

The Stallions' attendance averaged 30,325 over three years --

 

1983 -- 22,046

1984 -- 36,865

1985 -- 32,065

 

That exceeded the league average of 25,627.

 

The Bolts only averaged 17,002, but I think the WFL and USFL experiences still stick in people's minds.

[Mac the Knife]

16 minutes ago, leopard88 said:

The Americans/Vulcans led the WFL in attendance in both years of the league's existence and averaged approximately 30,000 over two years --

 

1974 -- 37,135

1975 -- 23,819 (in the middle of the death throes of the league).

 

The Stallions' attendance averaged 30,325 over three years --

 

1983 -- 22,046

1984 -- 36,865

1985 -- 32,065

 

That exceeded the league average of 25,627.

 

The Bolts only averaged 17,002, but I think the WFL and USFL experiences still stick in people's minds.

And if you're looking for a reason for these cities and their fans to support such teams, each and every time, I present as Exhibit A - the Jacksonville Bulls.  If the USFL hadn't gambled on Jacksonville in 1984, and had the fans not responded in the way they did, there'd have been no way the NFL would've given them the time of day 7 years later when they were combing through expansion applications; and they certainly wouldn't have been picked.

 

Birmingham is a city that still, inexplicably, has 'major league' aspirations when it comes to football.  Memphis did until Nashville got the Titans, but I'd bet you a buck that if they actually pursued a relocated NFL team by building a state-of-the-art stadium to replace the Liberty Bowl?  They'd get one.  There's just never been a situation in which the NFL has looked at either Birmingham or Memphis and not had a prettier girl alongside it (Memphis lost out to Tampa and Seattle in '76, then again to Charlotte and Jacksonville for '95; Birmingham took a shot for the '76 expansion as well but was told even then "Never in Legion Field.")  And since then, the population and age demo's of Birmingham have changed dramatically, making it less and less attractive as a market.

[Cosmic]

3 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

Minor league football has always had the smell of desperation about it.  They can’t compete in major markets, so they keep trying to tap cities like this one.

Can't disagree with the first sentence, but going to second-tier cities is kinda the MO of minor league sports in general.

[B-Rich]

2 hours ago, leopard88 said:

The Americans/Vulcans led the WFL in attendance in both years of the league's existence and averaged approximately 30,000 over two years --

 

1974 -- 37,135

1975 -- 23,819 (in the middle of the death throes of the league).

 

The Stallions' attendance averaged 30,325 over three years --

 

1983 -- 22,046

1984 -- 36,865

1985 -- 32,065

 

That exceeded the league average of 25,627.

 

The Bolts only averaged 17,002, but I think the WFL and USFL experiences still stick in people's minds.

 

As an additional note, in between the Stallions and the Bolts, the WLAF Birmingham Fire averaged 27,467 in their first season (including a playoff game),  but only 14,636  in their second season.

 

The CFL Birmingham Barracudas averaged only 17, 625 in their one year of existence (1995).

[CrimsonBull9584]

No one is really taking about the scheduling for the AAF. We know that it's 10 weeks and a four team playoff. That's about it. But just messing around today, I think I've come up with a reasonable idea of what an AAF schedule may look like, once they announce it.

 

First, I think that the teams will be divided by East and West.

 

East

• Orlando
• Atlanta
• Memphis
• Birmingham

West

• Salt Lake City
• San Diego
• San Antonio
• Phoenix

 

That being said, the schedule will have to include a home-and-away with each division opponent and then two away games with teams from the opposite side and two at home. So Atlanta's 2019 schedule will look something like this:

 

1. Orlando
2. @Orlando
3. Memphis
4. @Memphis
5. Birmingham
6. @Birmingham
7. Salt Lake City
8. @San Diego
9. Phoenix
10. @San Antonio

And as for the playoff, would they take the top four teams regardless of division or the top two teams from either division?

[Mac the Knife]

23 minutes ago, CrimsonBull9584 said:

No one is really taking about the scheduling for the AAF. We know that it's 10 weeks and a four team playoff. That's about it. But just messing around today, I think I've come up with a reasonable idea of what an AAF schedule may look like, once they announce it.

 

First, I think that the teams will be divided by East and West.

 

East

• Orlando
• Atlanta
• Memphis
• Birmingham

West

• Salt Lake City
• San Diego
• San Antonio
• Phoenix

 

That being said, the schedule will have to include a home-and-away with each division opponent and then two away games with teams from the opposite side and two at home. So Atlanta's 2019 schedule will look something like this:

 

1. Orlando
2. @Orlando
3. Memphis
4. @Memphis
5. Birmingham
6. @Birmingham
7. Salt Lake City
8. @San Diego
9. Phoenix
10. @San Antonio

And as for the playoff, would they take the top four teams regardless of division or the top two teams from either division?

If it's an 8-team format with a 10-game regular season format?  It'll be home-and-home in each division, and one game against the other four teams from the other division.