mr.nascar13

Introducing the Alliance of American Football

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5 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

You see - here is why this will FAIL. The NFL ISN'T the only option. There are semi-pro football teams that sound just like this league all over the country, and no one gives a rat's @$$ about any of them. We speculate on how we would love and watch this and blah blah blah. We fondly remember the USFL or WFL or WLAF depending on our age, but we are the minority in that we care about the uniforms as much as about the game itself.

Cool story? On the pro level it is the only option. I can’t speak for anyone other than myself, and I said I would like to see this happen. You have an issue with other people not watching semi-pro football take it up with them.

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1 hour ago, Sec19Row53 said:

I agree with that. But I will also say that better players won't bring more eyeballs because they aren't playing for "my team".

I'm willing to give any football league the benefit of the doubt as long as they avoid shenanigans like "cheerleader cam" and making the announcers the story instead of the football. Especially when my team is in pre-season mode and not playing games that matter. 

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Here is my suggestions for team names:

Stingrays, Barracudas, Mustangs, Cobras, Firebirds, Thunderbirds, Cougars, and Roadrunners.

 

 

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On 3/21/2018 at 2:27 PM, BringBackTheVet said:

Scoring the TD is the hardest part (in theory), so that should count for a ton more than the "bonus", which is worth 33.3%. Getting a TD from the two yard line is worth 33.3% as much as a 90-yard drive?  Not in my eyes.  I kinda think the whole extra point / bonus idea is antiquated and obsolete anyway.  It does create drama when a team misses an XP and then has to go for two late to tie, but IMO a game shouldn't come down to what are essentially bonus plays.

 

I'd rather just make TDs worth 7 (so more than 2 FGs) but then if you want more, you can choose from one-or-more options (maybe the only viable option is to run a play from the two) and "bet" a point or two on it.   So for example:  if you're down by 8 and score a TD, you can bet 1 point on the conversion, and get either 8 or 6 points out of it.  If you're down by 9, you could bet two points on the conversion, and walk away with either 5 or 9.  Everyone loves gambling.

 

Here's how you make conversions interesting:  the scoring team has the option of putting the ball on the 5 yard line or the 10 yard line.  If the try is from the 5, the team is awarded 1 point if they score by pass play, 2 if by run.  If the try is from the 10, the team is awarded 2 points if they score by pass play, 3 if by run.  Or if you really want to go nuts with the concept, allow a touchdown-scoring team a "double play down" in which, after the touchdown, they get one down from the 50 yard line - if they score, by any means?  The team gets 12 points instead of 6.  A screwball idea perhaps, but one that'd keep at least a few more people watching.

 

On 3/21/2018 at 10:39 PM, WideRight said:

Several things come to mind with this new league.

 

1) I really want to see where the money is coming from, and are they ready to lose about 100 million a year for a while.   You have to be prepared for that.

 

2) You also have to be prepared to prop up (not relocate) whichever team or teams in the league start off with crappy seasons.  One of the worst part of many startup leagues is that teams are constantly moving, which makes it hard for anyone to trust enough to invest their time/money being a fan.

 

3) I like many of the names being associated with the football side of things, but want to see more linked to the TV and Financial side.

 

4) How do they deal with absolutely horrible weather in February and March?  Do you limit the teams to those states where it is not so bad or play in domes?  

 

5) Apart from the financial backing issue, which is where most leagues fail, the other big item is franchise location.   Do you go for larger TV markets to make CBS happy (NYC, LA, Chicago, Dallas, Miami, Denver, etc.) but at the risk that attendance will be miserable because those cities also have NBA, NHL and MLB?  Or do you go for second tier cities that may do better at the box office but not draw big TV crowds?  Can a league pretend to be a big deal if it is made up of Louisville, Norfolk, Memphis, San Antonio, Albuquerque and Sacramento?  My guess is that they are going to try to go with the large market but smaller venues if possible.   

 

I would recommend they consider weather (or dome), mid-sized stadiums if they can, and a range of mostly NFL cities for TV.  So, a quick list for me would be these:

 

Detroit (Dome)

Minneapolis (Dome)

Indianapolis (Dome)

St. Louis (Dome)

New Orleans (Dome or Tulane Stadium)

Atlanta (Dome or Ga. Tech)

Miami (FIU stadium)

Orlando (UCF Stadium)

Raleigh-Durham (Duke, UNC or NCState)

San Antonio (Dome)

Dallas (SMU Stadium)

Houston (U. of Houston or Dome)

San Diego (Qualcomm)

LA (StubHub)

Portland (Providence Park)

Salt Lake City (Rio Tinto or U. of Utah)

 

I just don't see how you can put a team in NY, Philly, DC, or Boston with an open air stadium in February & March, so there goes the huge NE TV market. 

 

This is the double-edged sword of professional football.  No matter what, you're going to lose money for 7-10 years - not $100 million a year necessarily, but a lot.  Unless you have an MLS-level of patience within your ownership group, that's going to be an issue.  No matter what, every move you make is going to be compared to the NFL, from player signings to playing rules to franchise locations.

 

Relocation won't be so much an issue due to the single-entity models these guys are using, but as I write this they're jockeying for markets.  San Diego, St. Louis and Oakland gets a franchise in one of them; that's a given.  San Antonio'd be a good experiment via the Alamodome.  Orlando as well.  Omaha based on their UFL drawing power.  L.A. would be a catastrophe for either league to go into, as would Portland, Dallas, Philadelphia or Boston.  I'd like to see one of them have the balls to try a team in Cleveland though.

 

On 3/22/2018 at 2:17 PM, gosioux76 said:

I'm not sure I understand why these leagues seem to always insist on playing in the spring. Is it a heat thing, that it's just too hot to play football in the summer? I don't get it

 

Because with one notable exception (the United Football League), they aren't simply suicidal.  No one is going to compete, at any level, for fan interest with the NFL during a fall season.  That wasn't the case 35 years ago with the USFL, 20 years ago with the XFL, or today.  The only reason college football plays in the fall is because the NFL considers it complimentary to its business model - if the NFL for some reason decided to view college football as a competing product?  The NCAA's season would either begin in February or end in July.

 

20 hours ago, Sykotyk said:

I just can't imagine this isn't a rush job to beat the XFL to the field.

 

And for those talking up CBS.... it's a time-buy. There's no way CBS is betting on this league being successful. Those two CBS games (first and the title game) are bought air time that the AAF will have to fill with their own commercials (same as AFL does). Same as the CBSSN games would be possibly a 50-50 split after production costs at best. Which will be peanuts for the league. And worse, 75% of the league's games will only be online through their own app? Seriously?

 

You need to market yourself to a wide audience. By restricting access to 75% of your games on a proprietary app is foolish. You need Twitter, Amazon, YoutubeTV, etc to make a go of it online. Somewhere you can get eyeballs seeing that a game is even going on. Because utilizing a third-rate cable sports property and your own app, is bound for failure. Even if you have in-game fantasy sports.

 

I can't disagree with this assessment, but I'll go one further:  these guys aren't worried about 2019 or 2020.  They're worried about 2023.  On January 1, 2023, every current broadcast contract the NFL has expires.  They deliberately timed it that way in anticipation of another huge spike in TV revenues.  But if AAF and XFL are still around by then, and particularly if they're drawing more than flies?  Suddenly the networks have options and leverage they've not had in over half a century.  They may all still carry the NFL, but the networks may no longer be as willing to keep it as a loss leader, figuring they can have pro football in the spring at a fraction of the cost and actually turn a profit on the broadcasts.  AAF and XFL are going to at least try to get a slice of that NFL TV pie - maybe just a sliver, but that pie being as big as it is?  A sliver's all they might need.

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On 3/22/2018 at 8:51 AM, DG_Now said:

Everytime I open this thread it lands in the middle of that giant mock draft.

Ruined this thread for me 

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13 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

You see - here is why this will FAIL. The NFL ISN'T the only option. There are semi-pro football teams that sound just like this league all over the country, and no one gives a rat's @$$ about any of them. We speculate on how we would love and watch this and blah blah blah. We fondly remember the USFL or WFL or WLAF depending on our age, but we are the minority in that we care about the uniforms as much as about the game itself.

And there's also now the "Shark Tank" problem. Even if Mark Cuban wasn't on the show, if a league came on the show and touted they were in business for two plus years with NO REVENUE, they'd all laugh them off the set.

 

A11FL and MLFB were guilty of that false assumption.

 

That's being a business who has zero earnings and is burning money telling folks that they have a nine figure value.

 

Both A11FL and MLFB tried to sell 49% of franchises at $5M.

 

Here's what the A11FL plan was, but every other single entity spring league has wanted to mirror this:

http://www.beacononthehillsportsmarketing.com/pages/leaguesfranchises_purchasingfranchise.htm

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7 hours ago, Mac the Knife said:

The only reason college football plays in the fall is because the NFL considers it complimentary to its business model - if the NFL for some reason decided to view college football as a competing product?  The NCAA's season would either begin in February or end in July.

The NFL and college football have grown up around each other for 100 years.That's why it works in the fall. There's no way you can compare NCAA football with upstart leagues.

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12 hours ago, Mac the Knife said:

 

Here's how you make conversions interesting:  the scoring team has the option of putting the ball on the 5 yard line or the 10 yard line.  If the try is from the 5, the team is awarded 1 point if they score by pass play, 2 if by run.  If the try is from the 10, the team is awarded 2 points if they score by pass play, 3 if by run.  Or if you really want to go nuts with the concept, allow a touchdown-scoring team a "double play down" in which, after the touchdown, they get one down from the 50 yard line - if they score, by any means?  The team gets 12 points instead of 6.  A screwball idea perhaps, but one that'd keep at least a few more people watching.

 

So... there’s a lot going on there. Here’s other ideas:

 

1) the bet play where you can essentially double or negate your TD with the extra point(s) attempt. 

 

2) have a wheel that you spin after each TD. Each section of the wheel would have a different scenario - maybe some of yours - or even other weird ones, like “snap ball from 17 yard line, QB has one arm tied behind back, defense has 18 players and their gorilla on the field, but the attempt is worth 50 points”

 

3) kinda the same as 2, but one of the options on the wheel is the gorilla, so in theory you can use it multiple times per game since the extra points wouldn’t count against your one play in this scenario. 

 

4) still with the wheel, but all it does is determine how many points the attempt is worth. You could spin 0 and your hosed, or go all the way up to 10 (but the 10 part of the whee would be super small and hard to get.) most often it’d be one or two. 

 

5) same as 4, but you spin AFTER you run the play, so you don’t know how many (if any) your successful conversion just scored. 

 

Boytom line - a big wheel needs to be integrated into this somehow. You could even have celebrity spinners!

 

 

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You're just hell-bent on introducing Price Is Right-like models into professional football.  We know what you're thinking...

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Perhaps someday Todd Radom will grace us with his process in developing the AAF's logo.  It's an interesting work.

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2 hours ago, Mac the Knife said:

You're just hell-bent on introducing Price Is Right-like models into professional football.  We know what you're thinking...

 

Actually I was thinking of something more crude, like this....

 

bKiA3t.gif

 

 

... however I love your idea!  We need to have one of these in each end zone, and each panel will either be a point value, gorilla symbol, or weird scenario, depending on what bonus option we select.  Just imagine, running the play and scoring, then spinning the wheel and finding out that the play was worth 100 points!!!!

 

xDDA8l8.gif?crop=1xw:1xh;center,center&r

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5 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

Actually I was thinking of something more crude, like this....

 

bKiA3t.gif

 

 

... however I love your idea!  We need to have one of these in each end zone, and each panel will either be a point value, gorilla symbol, or weird scenario, depending on what bonus option we select.  Just imagine, running the play and scoring, then spinning the wheel and finding out that the play was worth 100 points!!!!

 

xDDA8l8.gif?crop=1xw:1xh;center,center&r

 

Or they get deducted 100 points.

The price is wrong .......

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Oh, JK McKay; don't give an attendance number which hasn't ever been met.

And sorry "developmental fans", they won't be.

https://cbssports.radio.com/articles/mckay-were-not-looking-be-developmental-football-league

 

Excerpts:

Quote

“There’s a fine line between the guys that make it and don’t, and a lot of times the difference is they just never got an opportunity to play,” McKay said.

 

“Some guys are better when they play in a game than they are when they run in a Combine or even at practice. So I think you’ll see guys in our league that all of a sudden get a chance to actually play, and I think there will be some eyes opened that say, ‘Wow, that guy’s better than I thought he was.’ So I think we’re a complementary league. We don’t see ourselves as a developmental league.” 

 

McKay said that determining which cities will participate in the league is still a work in progress, but some of those cities may already have an NFL team.

“I think you’ll probably see a little bit of both,” he said. “We’re going to roll out those cities and head coaches over the next, I would say, eight weeks, starting in April. We’re a long way towards cutting deals with cities and with head coaches. We’ll be able to do that over the next eight weeks. I think you’ll probably see a mix of some teams where there might be an NFL team and others where there is not.”

 

Whether the league succeeds, of course, hinges on revenue. McKay said that attendance of 30,000 to 40,000 per game would be “a huge success" in 2019.

 

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I think the 0 key got stuck. It would be a huge success for them to get 3,000 to 4,000 for this in the first year.

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8 hours ago, dfwabel said:

Oh, JK McKay; don't give an attendance number which hasn't ever been met.

And sorry "developmental fans", they won't be.

https://cbssports.radio.com/articles/mckay-were-not-looking-be-developmental-football-league

 

Excerpts:

 

 

I like that line of thinking - who knows there's not another Tom Brady sitting out there who got cut as a 6th rounder rather than kept?  The thing is, when these guys get their chance in the NFL, they're throwing to / running behind / blocking for / receiving from the very best, rather than this league where a potential un-noticed star will be throwing to sub-standard players.  I'm pulling for another league to succeed, so I'm hoping he's right.

 

30k-40k?  LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL............

 

There's optimism, and then there's being addicted to drugs.  Those numbers could only be mentioned by someone who's on drugs.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Cosmic said:

I think the 0 key got stuck. It would be a huge success for them to get 3,000 to 4,000 for this in the first year.

Ehh, it was a ten minute radio interview which can be heard via the link, and he didn't have a verbal tick. Plus to make matters worse, McKay was a WFL player and with the XFL in its development too as the GM for the L.A. team.

McKay also emphasized that the league wasn't going to be dependent on TV for revenue. That's surely going to help you break even by year 3; that won't get you to year 2.

Edited by dfwabel

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33 minutes ago, dfwabel said:

McKay also emphasized that the league wasn't going to be dependent on TV for revenue.

 

They're going to try to do this on ticket sales?  Yikes.

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5 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

They're going to try to do this on ticket sales?  Yikes.

If they only have one game (of four) on TV weekly and all but two will be on CBSSN, McKay's not wrong.  CBS doesn't even pay for CBSSN to be tracked by Neilsen, so it's more difficult to judge viewership.

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That just means their broadcast platform is weak.  That doesn't mean this is a good idea at all.

 

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

That just means their broadcast platform is weak.  That doesn't mean this is a good idea at all.

 

Again, I'm claiming that McKay wasn't lying.

I've long been skeptical of each of these attempted ventures and this is no different. The fact that in their opening press conference, Ebersol expressed that in order to drive the live gate that the concession prices would be low told me that nobody in his circle knew how that side of the business worked and a stadium board/municalpity already in a concessionaire agreement isn't likely to change terms just for the AAF. The Falcons did it because they run the stadium and helped write the term sheet with Levy.

Edited by dfwabel

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