Rite of Spring 2018-“What happens in the playoffs stays in the playoffs”

[Dalcowboyfan92]

If Washington loses Game 6, that's going to be a debilitating, backbreaking loss.

 

Because its going to be the same song and dance as years prior; pushing Pittsburgh to the brink of elimination, only for Pittsburgh to pull a win out of the a--, and then falcon punch Washington in the nads in Game 7.

 

DON'T. LET. IT. HAPPEN.

[LMU]

2 hours ago, McCarthy said:

As more mainstream sports media starts to find this story and chime in with "what a story!" I feel compelled to watch less and less of this charade. I can't keep yelling "um actually it sucks!". I know how I'm coming across and it's annoying to even me. 

 

I guess I want people to understand that this isn't that baffling and they haven't gotten this far because of supernatural reasons. It all makes sense. The NHL handed them a team of the 9th best players and a cup winning goaltender and everyone's surprised that a team with depth prevails in the over-expanded NHL where depth is probably the biggest key to winning. Every player on Vegas is the 9th best player from their previous team (some even better than that, FLORIDA) and they're playing teams who have to play their 4th lines and 3rd defensive pairings stocked with 20th best players. No, I didn't think they'd make it to the conference finals, but I felt like they'd have a good shot at making the playoffs. And once they got the confidence snowball rolling, the us against the world mentality, and bringing playoff intensity every night because of being on a first year mission, it makes all the sense that they're where they are. 

 

Bah humbug 

It's actually worse than that.  I reread the expansion draft procedures and what's also not factored is that teams were required to expose players with a minimum amount of game appearances and couldn't protect free agents or players who refused to waive no-movement clauses.

 

Combine that with the ridiculous trades that were allowed in exchange for not touching an exposed player.

 

This is all just a spotlight on Bettman's ego.  He took a huge check but had to set up a team this loaded to avoid the egg on his face of having Coyotes 2.0.

[AstroCree]

38 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

lol at people hating on Vegas, like they were gifted a Stanley cup contending team.  They weren’t.  

 

Everyone predicted how bad they would be with their roster at the beginning of the season and now want to blame the NHL because they made it this far.  

 

Sour grapes 

Exactly! Everyone said this team would be bad but when they started to shock everyone and play well, people are now screaming conspiracy? Get the hell out of here with that. 

[CreamSoda]

6 minutes ago, LMU said:

It's actually worse than that.  I reread the expansion draft procedures and what's also not factored is that teams were required to expose players with a minimum amount of game appearances and couldn't protect free agents or players who refused to waive no-movement clauses.

 

Combine that with the ridiculous trades that were allowed in exchange for not touching an exposed player.

 

This is all just a spotlight on Bettman's ego.  He took a huge check but had to set up a team this loaded to avoid the egg on his face of having Coyotes 2.0.

 

Karlsson or Haula having breakout years with solid coaching could have something to do with it...  

 

Nah, i'll take the low road and just blame Bettman...  Dude come on.

[Sport]

52 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

lol at people hating on Vegas, like they were gifted a Stanley cup contending team.  They weren’t.  

 

Remind me again how they got their players? Was it shrewd trades, developing players in the minors? No it was an expansion draft where they were literally gifted the most generous rules the league's ever had. That's not even debatable. LOL at saying a team who got all of their key contributors through the easiest expansion draft ever and then immediately makes the final four wasn't gifted a cup contending team. 

 

Quote

Everyone predicted how bad they would be with their roster at the beginning of the season and now want to blame the NHL because they made it this far.  

 

Sour grapes 

 

10 minutes ago, insert name said:

Exactly! Everyone said this team would be bad but when they started to shock everyone and play well, people are now screaming conspiracy? Get the hell out of here with that. 

 

It's not that complicated. Everyone predicted that because that's usual for expansion and it was the safe pick. It's been so long since we had an expansion team that people forgot why the last group of expansion teams were so bad. Anyone paying attention, though, recognized the different advantages Vegas was given and had a feeling they'd have a shot at being pretty good. That they're this good this early can only mean the NHL made things too easy and badly overcorrected to avoid the mistakes of the last batch of expansion. Nothing else. 

 

And there's no conspiracy. It's out there in the open. The expansion draft was markedly more generous for this club than it was for the previous 8 teams. Under the old rules the Blue Jackets would've been able to protect both William Karlsson and Josh Anderson (and 100% would have) and wouldn't have had to make a trade for the agreement not to take a player. Your Vegas Golden Knight would've been Jack Johnson. 

 

13 minutes ago, LMU said:

It's actually worse than that.  I reread the expansion draft procedures and what's also not factored is that teams were required to expose players with a minimum amount of game appearances and couldn't protect free agents or players who refused to waive no-movement clauses.

 

Combine that with the ridiculous trades that were allowed in exchange for not touching an exposed player.

 

This is all just a spotlight on Bettman's ego.  He took a huge check but had to set up a team this loaded to avoid the egg on his face of having Coyotes 2.0.

 

I think he was more worried about repeating Atlanta. 

[smzimbabwe]

Will Seattle (or whoever is next) get the same expansion draft opportunities as Vegas, or does the NHL not want that situation to happen again?

[LMU]

Speaking of repeating Atlanta, where exactly was a player of Haula or Karlsson's caliber on one of these rosters (never mind one playing in front of a multi-time Stanley Cup champion goalie)?

 

ATL

ANA

CBJ

FLA

MIN

NSH

 

Also lost here?  The Knights had these generous terms with no other teams to compete with.  Columbus had to trade picks with Minny.  Florida had to trade picks with Anaheim.  Teams could potentially protect 14 skaters from Nashville.  Atlanta was blocked from any goalie on a team that lost a goalie to the Perds.  Also, teams were allowed to expose free agents until now.

[CreamSoda]

17 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

 

Remind me again how they got their players? Was it shrewd trades, developing players in the minors? No it was an expansion draft where they were literally gifted the most generous rules the league's ever had. That's not even debatable. LOL at saying a team who got all of their key contributors through the easiest expansion draft ever and then immediately makes the final four wasn't gifted a cup contending team. 

 

 

 

It's not that complicated. Everyone predicted that because that's usual for expansion and it was the safe pick. It's been so long since we had an expansion team that people forgot why the last group of expansion teams were so bad. Anyone paying attention, though, recognized the different advantages Vegas was given and had a feeling they'd have a shot at being pretty good. That they're this good this early can only mean the NHL made things too easy and badly overcorrected to avoid the mistakes of the last batch of expansion. Nothing else. 

 

And there's no conspiracy. It's out there in the open. The expansion draft was markedly more generous for this club than it was for the previous 8 teams. Under the old rules the Blue Jackets would've been able to protect both William Karlsson and Josh Anderson (and 100% would have) and wouldn't have had to make a trade for the agreement not to take a player. Your Vegas Golden Knight would've been Jack Johnson. 

 

 

I think he was more worried about repeating Atlanta. 

 

 

They got players that other teams no longer wanted...  Don't try and act like they stole top line stars from across the league.   You wanted Vegas to have to develop players in the minors before their first season?  lol, what....   And yes a large part of it was shrewd trades.

 

Anybody paying attention knew they were a stacked team?  Dude, the HOCKEY experts picked them last.  Pretty sure they do pay attention to all things hockey.  Nobody had the Avs finishing higher than dead last in the Central and yet they took the Predators to 6 games...  Did the NHL gift that to the Avs too?

 

You are coming across very bitter and it's a bad look.  You are just jealous the Blue Jackets haven't won anything.

 

You are suddenly devastated to lose this William Karlsson?

 

 

 

[Luigi74]

Just now, LMU said:

Speaking of repeating Atlanta, where exactly was a player of Haula or Karlsson's caliber on one of these rosters (never mind one playing in front of a multi-time Stanley Cup champion goalie)?

 

ATL

ANA

CBJ

FLA

MIN

NSH

 

Also lost here?  The Knights had these generous terms with no other teams to compete with.  Columbus had to trade picks with Minny.  Florida had to trade picks with Anaheim.  Teams could potentially protect 14 skaters from Nashville.  Atlanta was blocked from any goalie on a team that lost a goalie to the Perds.  Also, teams were allowed to expose free agents until now.

The only reason they have a multi-time Stanley Cup champion in goal was because the Penguins had a younger Stanley Cup Champion goalie on the roster. If Fleury doesn't get concussed before the playoffs three years ago, Murray doesn't get called up and stays in Wilkes-Barre full time until the start of this season. The Golden Knights aren't getting this far with Jeff Zatkoff between the pipes, who is the goalie the Pens would had had exposed in the expansion draft had Fleury not been hurt in 2016.

[CreamSoda]

16 minutes ago, LMU said:

Speaking of repeating Atlanta, where exactly was a player of Haula or Karlsson's caliber on one of these rosters (never mind one playing in front of a multi-time Stanley Cup champion goalie)?

 

ATL

ANA

CBJ

FLA

MIN

NSH

 

Also lost here?  The Knights had these generous terms with no other teams to compete with.  Columbus had to trade picks with Minny.  Florida had to trade picks with Anaheim.  Teams could potentially protect 14 skaters from Nashville.  Atlanta was blocked from any goalie on a team that lost a goalie to the Perds.  Also, teams were allowed to expose free agents until now.

 

 

 

That caliber?  That pretty much everybody passed on...

 

And how about giving some credit instead of just blame blame blame...  The Knights are playing amazing hockey and playing a SYSTEM that fits their team perfectly.  Maybe hiring an phenomenal coach has something to do with their success....

[BeerGuyJordan]

Trying really hard to stay zen, today. It's a combination of emotionally preparing myself for an exit, versus reminding myself of the fact that 4 of the last 5 Cup Champions were down 3-2 at least once, on their run.

[Sport]

Just now, CreamSoda said:

 

 

They got players that other teams no longer wanted... 

 

Not true at all. The Blue Jackets would've loved to have kept Karlsson and he would've been playing second line minutes this year. The same was true of a lot of teams in the league. Vegas got players that other teams wanted to keep, but couldn't protect due to the small number of protections each team was allotted this time.  The notion that they're a group of misfit outcasts is terribly disingenuous. 

 

Just now, CreamSoda said:

Don't try and act like they stole top line stars from across the league. 

 

Not saying that at all. I'm saying you take the 9th best player from every NHL team and that's still a very good hockey player. You compile a whole team of 9th best players and they're going to have mismatches lower in the lineup when your opponent is forced to play actual fourth lines. The NHL is over-expanded and the only thing that matters is depth and the expansion draft provided Vegas with a ton of it. 

 

Just now, CreamSoda said:

 You wanted Vegas to have to develop players in the minors before their first season?  lol, what....  And yes a large part of it was shrewd trades.

 

No. You thoroughly missed my point. You said they weren't gifted a cup contender. All of their key contributors were literally gifts via expansion draft. 50+ wins, 8-2 through two playoff rounds in their first year - The results prove they were gifted a cup contender. 

 

 

Just now, CreamSoda said:

Anybody paying attention knew they were a stacked team?  Dude, the HOCKEY experts picked them last.  Pretty sure they do pay attention to all things hockey.

 

2 things: 1. a lot of hockey experts were saying early on not to overlook Vegas, they have a lot of good players, but picked them last because it was the easy and safe pick. Not because they actually believed they'd be last. 2. Hockey experts are wrong about many things every year. 

 

Just now, CreamSoda said:

You are coming across very bitter and it's a bad look.  You are just jealous the Blue Jackets haven't won anything.

 

I've never denied that! I wish we were afforded the same expansion draft rules that Vegas got 18 years ago. 

[LMU]

3 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

 

Not true at all. The Blue Jackets would've loved to have kept Karlsson and he would've been playing second line minutes this year. The same was true of a lot of teams in the league. Vegas got players that other teams wanted to keep, but couldn't protect due to the small number of protections each team was allotted this time.  The notion that they're a group of misfit outcasts is terribly disingenuous. 

 

 

Not saying that at all. I'm saying you take the 9th best player from every NHL team and that's still a very good hockey player. You compile a whole team of 9th best players and they're going to have mismatches lower in the lineup when your opponent is forced to play actual fourth lines. The NHL is over-expanded and the only thing that matters is depth and the expansion draft provided Vegas with a ton of it. 

 

 

No. You thoroughly missed my point. You said they weren't gifted a cup contender. All of their key contributors were literally gifts via expansion draft. 50+ wins, 8-2 through two playoff rounds in their first year - The results prove they were gifted a cup contender. 

 

 

 

2 things: 1. a lot of hockey experts were saying early on not to overlook Vegas, they have a lot of good players, but picked them last because it was the easy and safe pick. Not because they actually believed they'd be last. 2. Hockey experts are wrong about many things every year. 

 

I've never denied that! I wish we were afforded the same expansion draft rules that Vegas got 18 years ago. 

And without having to fight with Minny over the NSH/ATL leftovers.

[CreamSoda]

2 minutes ago, McCarthy said:

 

Not true at all. The Blue Jackets would've loved to have kept Karlsson and he would've been playing second line minutes this year. The same was true of a lot of teams in the league. Vegas got players that other teams wanted to keep, but couldn't protect due to the small number of protections each team was allotted this time.  The notion that they're a group of misfit outcasts is terribly disingenuous. 

 

 

Not saying that at all. I'm saying you take the 9th best player from every NHL team and that's still a very good hockey player. You compile a whole team of 9th best players and they're going to have mismatches lower in the lineup when your opponent is forced to play actual fourth lines. The NHL is over-expanded and the only thing that matters is depth and the expansion draft provided Vegas with a ton of it. 

 

 

No. You thoroughly missed my point. You said they weren't gifted a cup contender. All of their key contributors were literally gifts via expansion draft. 50+ wins, 8-2 through two playoff rounds in their first year - The results prove they were gifted a cup contender. 

 

 

 

2 things: 1. a lot of hockey experts were saying early on not to overlook Vegas, they have a lot of good players, but picked them last because it was the easy and safe pick. Not because they actually believed they'd be last. 2. Hockey experts are wrong about many things every year. 

 

I've never denied that! I wish we were afforded the same expansion draft rules that Vegas got 18 years ago. 

 

 

There is no doubt the expansion rules were tilted more in favor of the Knights, but I am just sick of hearing they got gifted a SC winning squad.   

 

I guess I don't understand your 9th best player argument, at all.   Having a team of AT-BEST third liners is hardly a formula for winning, let alone winning the division and possible Conference. 

 

Vadim Shipachyov was supposed to be their best player... 

 

The Knights made the best of their situation and should be given praise for their success.  Great coaching and GM work enabled this team to get this far, not Bettman or $500M.

[LMU]

9th best player on a team =/= 9th best forward.

 

If you factor in a goalie and a few defensemen you're looking at quite a few second liners and potentially a few first-liners if a team went the 4 D protection route.

[crashcarson15]

38 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

They got players that other teams no longer wanted

I can guarantee you the Blue Jackets were not thrilled about having to expose two of:

• 24-year-old Boone Jenner
• 22-year-old Alexander Wennberg
• 23-year-old Josh Anderson
• 24-year-old William Karlsson

[CreamSoda]

2 minutes ago, LMU said:

9th best player on a team =/= 9th best forward.

 

If you factor in a goalie and a few defensemen you're looking at quite a few second liners and potentially a few first-liners if a team went the 4 D protection route.

 

The Knights picked Pickard from the Avs, and then waived him...  Were they gifted him too?  

 

[charger77]

And the Predators & Penguins were more than happy to unload Neal & Fleury

[charger77]

6 minutes ago, crashcarson15 said:

I can guarantee you the Blue Jackets were not thrilled about having to expose two of:

• 24-year-old Boone Jenner
• 22-year-old Alexander Wennberg
• 23-year-old Josh Anderson
• 24-year-old William Karlsson

 

Hell, looks like Columbus wanted Vegas to take Karlsson off of their hands. 

 

Quote

The Columbus Blue Jackets traded their first-round pick in the 2017 NHL Entry Draft, a second-round pick in the 2019 NHL Entry Draft and David Clarkson in exchange for Vegas selecting William Karlsson

 

 

Columbus Oh --- In exchange for selecting forward William Karlsson in the 2017 NHL Expansion Draft, the Columbus Blue Jackets have traded their 2017 first round pick, 24th overall, a second round pick in the 2019 NHL Draft and forward David Clarkson to the Vegas Golden Knights, club General Manager Jarmo Kekalainen announced tonight.

"We knew a player we didn't want to lose was going to be taken in this year's Expansion Draft, but our goal was to try to keep the core of our team intact," said Kekalainen. "While we didn't want to lose William Karlsson as he has been a good player for us, we believe this deal keeps our core group together and gives us additional financial flexibility to build on the success we had last season."

[CreamSoda]

8 minutes ago, charger77 said:

And the Predators & Penguins were more than happy to unload Neal & Fleury

 

And the Wild wanted out of Haula.

The Panthers for some reason hated Marchassualt and gifted them both 81 and Smith.

 

And boy, this sounds like a team desperate to KEEP Karlsson:

• The Columbus Blue Jackets traded their first-round pick in the 2017 NHL Entry Draft, a second-round pick in the 2019 NHL Entry Draft and David Clarkson in exchange for Vegas selecting William Karlsson.

 

As for their Stanley Cup winning goalie, Pittsburgh had to sweeten that deal too:

• The Pittsburgh Penguins traded their second-round pick in the 2020 NHL Entry Draft in exchange for Vegas selecting Marc-Andre Fleury.

 

Other GMs took this expansion draft as way to dump salaries/players and the Knights took advantage.  Thats good GM work.