Rite of Spring 2018-“What happens in the playoffs stays in the playoffs”

[tp49]

Nothing says spring like a Sharks playoff exit.

 

I hate to admit it but I'm enjoying Vegas' playoff run.  It's the only thing keeping me watching and following the playoffs thanks to the ineptitude of my own team.

[IceCap]

3 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

Should I continue to hate all things that aren't O6?

So the Nashville Predators and Winnipeg Jets are original six teams now?

 

Also lol. The hockey contrarian go-to of "ugh everyone who doesn't like my hot takes just slobbers over the original six" is laughable. FFS man. You've got Kings, Ducks, and Blue Jackets fans here telling you that you're full of it. Do they sound like original six fanboys to you?

 

4 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

What does Nashville getting new owners and Winnipeg getting the Thrashers have to do with the Knights?

Those ownership groups had to build contending teams through player development, free agency, and trades. The Knights were gifted a playoff-calibre team out of the gate. That's what @McCarthy and @Still MIGHTY have been saying, and what you've been unable to refute. That the league granted the Knights draft terms that were, far and away, more generous than any expansion team had been afforded.

 

When your only refute to that is "you're just jealous!"? I'm inclined to think the other guy's got you.

[CreamSoda]

36 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

So the Nashville Predators and Winnipeg Jets are original six teams now?

 

Also lol. The hockey contrarian go-to of "ugh everyone who doesn't like my hot takes just slobbers over the original six" is laughable. FFS man. You've got Kings, Ducks, and Blue Jackets fans here telling you that you're full of it. Do they sound like original six fanboys to you?

 

Those ownership groups had to build contending teams through player development, free agency, and trades. The Knights were gifted a playoff-calibre team out of the gate. That's what @McCarthy and @Still MIGHTY have been saying, and what you've been unable to refute. That the league granted the Knights draft terms that were, far and away, more generous than any expansion team had been afforded.

 

When your only refute to that is "you're just jealous!"? I'm inclined to think the other guy's got you.

 

No, but Toronto sure is, and the reason you are most likely so salty about this.

 

I do?  For liking watching Vegas play hockey?  Yikes must be a tough job to root for the kings, ducks or jackets then.  

 

Tell me again how Vegas was giving the best team ever and how everybody saw this coming from a mile away.   I never said Vegas was in the same boat at the Jackets or Wild, yet thats all you get from this?  Unable to refute, dude its a conversation not a debate club.  

 

The other guy admitted he was jealous, lol...  Yet you come here and attack me for some odd reason.

 

My whole "argument" at the beginning was people hating Vegas was just sour grapes.  You have not helped me turn that view around.

[Still MIGHTY]

Dude, it's hard to even follow what you're talking about any more. How about we start one thing at a time.

 

@CreamSoda, can you or do you acknowledge that the expansion draft rules for the Vegas Golden Knights provided them a better opportunity to succeed and were more advantageous than any previous expansion draft before them?

[CreamSoda]

6 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

Dude, it's hard to even follow what you're talking about any more. How about we start one thing at a time.

 

@CreamSoda, can you or do you acknowledge that the expansion draft rules for the Vegas Golden Knights provided them a better opportunity to succeed and were more advantageous than any previous expansion draft before them?

 

I said people who hate on the Knights are just displaying sour grapes.  

 

You asking this question proves it.  

[Unocal]

So theoretically, it's probably that we don't have a Cup Final rematch. (One of PIT/WPG could come back, but I don't know if BOTH teams will do so)

 

Kinda seems like PIT/DET 2008-2009 was an exception rather than the norm.

[Still MIGHTY]

4 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

 

I said people who hate on the Knights are just displaying sour grapes.  

 

You asking this question proves it.  

 

Thanks for not answering the question.

 

Were the expansion draft rules provided to the Knights better, worse or equal to previous expansion draft rules presented to previous expansion teams?

[CreamSoda]

6 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

 

Thanks for not answering the question.

 

Were the expansion draft rules provided to the Knights better, worse or equal to previous expansion draft rules presented to previous expansion teams?

 

Do you hate the Knights success because your team didnt have the same draft rules?

[LMU]

2 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

 

Do you hate the Knights success because your team didnt have the same draft rules?

You're just trolling at this point.  As a moderator, I'm stepping in to request that you defend your position by answering the question and not with mocking snark.  You're going down the same road that earned you a month off a couple years ago.

[CreamSoda]

2 minutes ago, LMU said:

You're just trolling at this point.  As a moderator, I'm stepping in to request that you defend your position by answering the question and not with mocking snark.  You're going down the same road that earned you a month off a couple years ago.

 

I never stated they were given the same draft rules.  I have agreed they were given an average team....

 

Of course they had better draft rules than MN, ANA, CLB...  That has never been my argument. 

 

I am calling sour grapes to fans hating the Knights.  Sour grapes means people hate something because they cant have it.  People are mad at the VGK because they got better draft rules than they did. 

 

Fans have proven that to be true in spades in this thread.

[Still MIGHTY]

1 minute ago, CreamSoda said:

 

Do you hate the Knights success because your team didnt have the same draft rules?

 

Since you're not answering my question, I'll do you the courtesy of answering yours.

 

Because of the draft rules? Me, personally? No. The Mighty Ducks actually made better due with their expansion draft than others and were halfway decent. Made the playoffs in their third season, and have been one of the more successful teams in the league post-lockout.

 

My hate for the Knights is that this success doesn't feel earned. It's just kind of happened. There's a difference in earning success after a time of building, molding, cultivating. There was work put into it. You're grateful from the time, the ups and downs, and all that went into it. I felt that as a Ducks fan. We got beaten down for a long while, but when they did succeed, when they did finally win it all, it made that all worth it. You realize how hard it is to win. You realize that hte saying of the Stanley Cup being the hardest trophy to win in sports, it's not just a saying. Not everybody gets to see their team get to that level.

None of that applies to the Knights. It's almost a "just add water" type of success. Everything they've done has worked. Everything they've done has turned right-side up. It's such a charmed existence that's gone way far and high into their fan's heads. It's not deserved or earned. It's just happened.

 

Call it sour grapes, call it whatever the hell you want, but to my mind and many others, the Golden Knights haven't earned their stripes in a league that, until now, basically demanded that you do.

[Alex Houston]

1 hour ago, tp49 said:

Nothing says spring like a Sharks playoff exit.

 

I hate to admit it but I'm enjoying Vegas' playoff run.  It's the only thing keeping me watching and following the playoffs thanks to the ineptitude of my own team.

 

If I understand this correctly and you're a Sharks fan, I have to ask, did you really think they were beating the Jets/Preds *and* Knights considering they needed a hot Evander Kane just to secure that awesome #3 seed in the Pacific? I'm not saying this to try and sound like some snarky fan with revisionist history but this team finished were they needed to. They were a playoff team, not a championship team and that whimper of a third proved it. I hope DeBoer is on the hot seat next season because he seems like the kind of coach who can't seem to exploit the best possible match-ups, like having Ryan in place of Martin from the start of the series, not Game 4 and onward. Maybe the savior known as Johnny Tavares can help us. 

[CreamSoda]

3 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

 

Since you're not answering my question, I'll do you the courtesy of answering yours.

 

Because of the draft rules? Me, personally? No. The Mighty Ducks actually made better due with their expansion draft than others and were halfway decent. Made the playoffs in their third season, and have been one of the more successful teams in the league post-lockout.

 

My hate for the Knights is that this success doesn't feel earned. It's just kind of happened. There's a difference in earning success after a time of building, molding, cultivating. There was work put into it. You're grateful from the time, the ups and downs, and all that went into it. I felt that as a Ducks fan. We got beaten down for a long while, but when they did succeed, when they did finally win it all, it made that all worth it. You realize how hard it is to win. You realize that hte saying of the Stanley Cup being the hardest trophy to win in sports, it's not just a saying. Not everybody gets to see their team get to that level.

None of that applies to the Knights. It's almost a "just add water" type of success. Everything they've done has worked. Everything they've done has turned right-side up. It's such a charmed existence that's gone way far and high into their fan's heads. It's not deserved or earned. It's just happened.

 

Call it sour grapes, call it whatever the hell you want, but to my mind and many others, the Golden Knights haven't earned their stripes in a league that, until now, basically demanded that you do.

 

 

To answer your question, the draft rules were better than prior installments.  But I do also think they did a great job taking advantage of the rules and of teams trying to use the expansion draft as a bail out for bad contracts, etc.

 

To me, that is making it special.  Everything about this team is gone right and they are making all the right choices.  Plus they are playing a fun style of hockey, that I have quite enjoyed watching.  I had no reason to like the VGK, but I do.  After the Avs were eliminated, I found myself rooting for the VGK.

 

I normally always root for the Canadian teams, and if it ends up Jets vs Knights, I probably will still root for the Jets.  But that doesnt mean I can't enjoy watching the VGK play.  

 

 

[tp49]

32 minutes ago, Alex Houston said:

 

If I understand this correctly and you're a Sharks fan, I have to ask, did you really think they were beating the Jets/Preds *and* Knights considering they needed a hot Evander Kane just to secure that awesome #3 seed in the Pacific? I'm not saying this to try and sound like some snarky fan with revisionist history but this team finished were they needed to. They were a playoff team, not a championship team and that whimper of a third proved it. I hope DeBoer is on the hot seat next season because he seems like the kind of coach who can't seem to exploit the best possible match-ups, like having Ryan in place of Martin from the start of the series, not Game 4 and onward. Maybe the savior known as Johnny Tavares can help us. 

No, I'm not a Sharks fan.  I'm an Islanders fan.  One who hopes John Tavares stays put.

 

However, to answer your question, I did expect them to beat Vegas because I thought that Vegas would be "hungover" from their sweep of LA, the Sharks being a more experienced playoff team, and Marc-Ander Fleury's propensity to have a number of bad games in the playoffs.  While my third point did happen where Fleury gave up the number of goals I'd seen in the past, Vegas didn't come out in the second round with the hangover I expected.  I didn't expect San Jose to beat Nashville or Winnipeg, but I did have a reasonable expectation they'd beat Vegas.

[Still MIGHTY]

Here's another thing of looking at it from my perspective as a Ducks fan.

 

Here the Ducks are over the last 6 seasons, six 100-point seasons, five consecutive division titles but losing in Game 7 after Game 7 after Game 7 after Game 7, losing to the damn Red Wings (again), losing to the rival LA Kings, losing to the Blackhawks after being inches from a Cup Final, losing to effing Nashville in the first round at home (again), losing to Nashville (AGAIN), and ending it all by losing to not the best Sharks team in a sweep after a late season charge. Just banging your head against the wall over and over and over and over and over again.

 

Then here come the Knights, who didn't even exist 12 months ago let alone over the five season previous. Vegas waltzes in, bursts out to an incredible/uncatchable start, wins the same division the Ducks owned for the five previous seasons, and goes the conference final with little to no resistance. It's not only them winning. They've been winning easy. That's another part that's so maddening. Anyone in this thread can attest to how hard the NHL can be on an extremely regular basis. But for the Knights, it's been infuriatingly easy. The one blip of adversity they faced was the early season goalie situation -- down to their fourth string, calling up a kid from effing juniors -- and even then, it wasn't them scratching and clawing for wins. It was a breeze!

 

If you can't see how that's all infuriating as hell from my perspective or from McCarthy's as a Jackets fan or Ice Cap's as a Cup-starved Maple Leafs fan, then idk what to tell you.

 

Like I said after the first round in this thread. Every team has a list of Only In The God Damn NHL moments they can point to in their history. Points of adversity or (usually) ridicule. Vegas doesn't have an OITGDNHL moment, because they are an OITGDNHL moment. You haven't and will never see this in the MLB, NBA, NFL. An expansion team within spitting distance of a league championship is so maddeningly NHL.

[habsfan1]

Game 6 hasn't even started yet. But it mind my mind, the Penguins already won.

 

Sorry for lack of optimism. Congratulations Pittsburgh on your victory, in advance. 

[Seadragon76]

8 minutes ago, habsfan1 said:

Game 6 hasn't even started yet. But it mind my mind, the Penguins already won.

 

Sorry for lack of optimism. Congratulations Pittsburgh on your victory, in advance. 

 

Oh, ye of little faith. I feel that tonight is the night that Washington finally slays the beast and Winnipeg makes sure that the President's Trophy winner doesn't guarantee anything.

[IceCap]

1 hour ago, CreamSoda said:

No, but Toronto sure is, and the reason you are most likely so salty about this.

I like the Maple Leafs because I was born and raised less than an hour from Toronto. Don't mistake "likes his hometown team" with "likes all things original six." In case you haven't noticed? Most of the O6 teams tend to not like each other. Trust me. I didn't lose any sleep over Tampa bouncing Boston.

 

What do the Leafs have to do with this anyway, aside from your "O6 is bad!" argument? Are you trying to say I'm jealous of the Knights? Well I'm not sure how that would work, or how I could be jealous. There's no way the Leafs could ever have assembled a roster like the Knights have! It's really hard to put together a Stanley Cup contender when the League doesn't force every other GM to give you one.

 

1 hour ago, CreamSoda said:

Tell me again how Vegas was giving the best team ever and how everybody saw this coming from a mile away.   I never said Vegas was in the same boat at the Jackets or Wild, yet thats all you get from this?  Unable to refute, dude its a conversation not a debate club.  

 

The other guy admitted he was jealous, lol...  Yet you come here and attack me for some odd reason.

 

My whole "argument" at the beginning was people hating Vegas was just sour grapes.  You have not helped me turn that view around.

He's right to be jealous. Have you not payed attention to the utter suckitude that is the Columbus Blue Jackets' history up until very recently?

This is a team that was awful. Years and years of being "Rick Nash, and some guys." A Calder Cup winning goaltender on probably the best OHL team ever who turned into a pumpkin in the NHL. It sucked being a Jackets fan, in part because they weren't afforded the opportunities Vegas was when assembling their roster.

 

So yeah. I don't blame McCarthy for being jealous. Or Still MIGHTY. Or any other fan of an expansion team to come along since 1990. It's pretty insane to have had to have lived through your team trying and failing to put the pieces together, only to see the NHL essentially hand the Knights a Cup-ready team out of the gate.

 

Your problem is that you're acting "ha! sour grapes! ha! you're jealous!" is some sort of "gotcha!" revelation. It's really not. You're being wilfully obtuse if you can't see how fans of expansion teams over the last thirty years might be miffed at how Vegas was allowed to assemble its roster.

[Crabcake]

28 minutes ago, habsfan1 said:

Game 6 hasn't even started yet. But it mind my mind, the Penguins already won.

 

Sorry for lack of optimism. Congratulations Pittsburgh on your victory, in advance. 

Until we are shown otherwise, pessimism is encouraged in the land of Capitals fandom. 

[Crabcake]

The Caps’ bottom six includes Tyler Boyd and Nathan Walker tonight. Chandler Stephenson is on the first line. 

 

This is not gonna be easy.