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Rite of Spring 2018-“What happens in the playoffs stays in the playoffs”

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15 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

 

Exactly. They were able to get the same level of player across the board. Each line and d-pairing has the same floor. The way every other team is built is a pyramid with cascading levels of talent from the top down.

 


That's a much better way of explaining what I'm trying to say. It's when you get into those matchups in the bottom half of the lineup where you see why the Knights seem to roll teams who appear to be more star-studded. Helps them too that teams needed to unload big salaries for cap reasons. An overlooked thing is this is the first expansion team in the salary cap era. That's another luxury the last batch of expansion missed out on. So they got fortunate and landed a few guys teams probably woul'dve kept in the old days and they gave them a  capable first line/pair plus Fluery. 

 

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1 minute ago, McCarthy said:


That's a much better way of explaining what I'm trying to say. It's when you get into those matchups in the bottom half of the lineup where you see why the Knights seem to roll teams who appear to be more star-studded. Helps them too that teams needed to unload big salaries for cap reasons. An overlooked thing is this is the first expansion team in the salary cap era. That's another luxury the last batch of expansion missed out on. So they got fortunate and landed a few guys teams probably woul'dve kept in the old days and they gave them a  capable first line/pair plus Fluery. 

 

 

Agreed on all of that.

 

Maybe Vegas won't match your first line, but they can play with your second line, beat your third line, and run circles around your fourth line.

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I I don’t have the time, stamina, nor the interest in the subject to read all of that. But I will offer this. 

 

In on this scenario, as in most things, I think this thing lies down the middle. Was Vegas handed advantages that other expansion teams didn’t get? Yes. Do they have a better roster than those other expansion teams? Probably yes (from an NHL fan beginning in 2011). But as a Caps fan, I can tell you having a good roster with an excellent goalie does not always guarantee success. Vegas still had to work to get where they are. 

 

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The most impressive aspect of the VGK playoff run is how they have matched both a physical team in the Kings and a faster/skilled team in the Sharks.   I think they would matchup better against the Preds rather than the Jets.

 

 

 

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Come on Winnipeg. Finnish out Nashville and save us form Vegas. 

 

Be Team Justice. 

 

BTW to all of you people riding high on Vegas? 

Both Nashville and Winnipeg are examples of doing it properly. Nashville was a dumpster fire until new ownerships committed themselves to building a team up, piece by piece. 

 

Winnipeg inherited a crap Thrashers team and slowly built them into a Stanley Cup contender over seven years. 

Hell. Winnipeg had to go through losing their first team (and all the years of playoff futility they had) just to get to starting off with a crap Thrashers team. 

 

Neither the Jets or Preds were basically given a team right off the bat. Those fan bases had to go through some lean years. 

 

Vegas? Well they need a rude awakening. Faster the rise, harder the fall. 

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21 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

Come on Winnipeg. Finnish out Nashville and save us form Vegas. 

 

Be Team Justice. 

 

BTW to all of you people riding high on Vegas? 

Both Nashville and Winnipeg are examples of doing it properly. Nashville was a dumpster fire until new ownerships committed themselves to building a team up, piece by piece. 

 

Winnipeg inherited a crap Thrashers team and slowly built them into a Stanley Cup contender over seven years. 

Hell. Winnipeg had to go through losing their first team (and all the years of playoff futility they had) just to get to starting off with a crap Thrashers team. 

 

Neither the Jets or Preds were basically given a team right off the bat. Those fan bases had to go through some lean years. 

 

Vegas? Well they need a rude awakening. Faster the rise, harder the fall. 

 

What does Nashville getting new owners and Winnipeg getting the Thrashers have to do with the Knights?   

 

Riding high on Vegas?  I enjoy watching good hockey and the Knights are playing really good/exciting hockey.  That's a bad thing why?  Should I continue to hate all things that aren't O6?

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Nothing says spring like a Sharks playoff exit.

 

I hate to admit it but I'm enjoying Vegas' playoff run.  It's the only thing keeping me watching and following the playoffs thanks to the ineptitude of my own team.

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3 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

Should I continue to hate all things that aren't O6?

So the Nashville Predators and Winnipeg Jets are original six teams now?

 

Also lol. The hockey contrarian go-to of "ugh everyone who doesn't like my hot takes just slobbers over the original six" is laughable. FFS man. You've got Kings, Ducks, and Blue Jackets fans here telling you that you're full of it. Do they sound like original six fanboys to you?

 

4 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

What does Nashville getting new owners and Winnipeg getting the Thrashers have to do with the Knights?

Those ownership groups had to build contending teams through player development, free agency, and trades. The Knights were gifted a playoff-calibre team out of the gate. That's what @McCarthy and @Still MIGHTY have been saying, and what you've been unable to refute. That the league granted the Knights draft terms that were, far and away, more generous than any expansion team had been afforded.

 

When your only refute to that is "you're just jealous!"? I'm inclined to think the other guy's got you.

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36 minutes ago, Ice_Cap said:

So the Nashville Predators and Winnipeg Jets are original six teams now?

 

Also lol. The hockey contrarian go-to of "ugh everyone who doesn't like my hot takes just slobbers over the original six" is laughable. FFS man. You've got Kings, Ducks, and Blue Jackets fans here telling you that you're full of it. Do they sound like original six fanboys to you?

 

Those ownership groups had to build contending teams through player development, free agency, and trades. The Knights were gifted a playoff-calibre team out of the gate. That's what @McCarthy and @Still MIGHTY have been saying, and what you've been unable to refute. That the league granted the Knights draft terms that were, far and away, more generous than any expansion team had been afforded.

 

When your only refute to that is "you're just jealous!"? I'm inclined to think the other guy's got you.

 

No, but Toronto sure is, and the reason you are most likely so salty about this.

 

I do?  For liking watching Vegas play hockey?  Yikes must be a tough job to root for the kings, ducks or jackets then.  

 

Tell me again how Vegas was giving the best team ever and how everybody saw this coming from a mile away.   I never said Vegas was in the same boat at the Jackets or Wild, yet thats all you get from this?  Unable to refute, dude its a conversation not a debate club.  

 

The other guy admitted he was jealous, lol...  Yet you come here and attack me for some odd reason.

 

My whole "argument" at the beginning was people hating Vegas was just sour grapes.  You have not helped me turn that view around.

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Dude, it's hard to even follow what you're talking about any more. How about we start one thing at a time.

 

@CreamSoda, can you or do you acknowledge that the expansion draft rules for the Vegas Golden Knights provided them a better opportunity to succeed and were more advantageous than any previous expansion draft before them?

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6 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

Dude, it's hard to even follow what you're talking about any more. How about we start one thing at a time.

 

@CreamSoda, can you or do you acknowledge that the expansion draft rules for the Vegas Golden Knights provided them a better opportunity to succeed and were more advantageous than any previous expansion draft before them?

 

I said people who hate on the Knights are just displaying sour grapes.  

 

You asking this question proves it.  

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So theoretically, it's probably that we don't have a Cup Final rematch. (One of PIT/WPG could come back, but I don't know if BOTH teams will do so)

 

Kinda seems like PIT/DET 2008-2009 was an exception rather than the norm.

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4 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

 

I said people who hate on the Knights are just displaying sour grapes.  

 

You asking this question proves it.  

 

Thanks for not answering the question.

 

Were the expansion draft rules provided to the Knights better, worse or equal to previous expansion draft rules presented to previous expansion teams?

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6 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

 

Thanks for not answering the question.

 

Were the expansion draft rules provided to the Knights better, worse or equal to previous expansion draft rules presented to previous expansion teams?

 

Do you hate the Knights success because your team didnt have the same draft rules?

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2 minutes ago, CreamSoda said:

 

Do you hate the Knights success because your team didnt have the same draft rules?

You're just trolling at this point.  As a moderator, I'm stepping in to request that you defend your position by answering the question and not with mocking snark.  You're going down the same road that earned you a month off a couple years ago.

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2 minutes ago, LMU said:

You're just trolling at this point.  As a moderator, I'm stepping in to request that you defend your position by answering the question and not with mocking snark.  You're going down the same road that earned you a month off a couple years ago.

 

I never stated they were given the same draft rules.  I have agreed they were given an average team....

 

Of course they had better draft rules than MN, ANA, CLB...  That has never been my argument. 

 

I am calling sour grapes to fans hating the Knights.  Sour grapes means people hate something because they cant have it.  People are mad at the VGK because they got better draft rules than they did. 

 

Fans have proven that to be true in spades in this thread.

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1 minute ago, CreamSoda said:

 

Do you hate the Knights success because your team didnt have the same draft rules?

 

Since you're not answering my question, I'll do you the courtesy of answering yours.

 

Because of the draft rules? Me, personally? No. The Mighty Ducks actually made better due with their expansion draft than others and were halfway decent. Made the playoffs in their third season, and have been one of the more successful teams in the league post-lockout.

 

My hate for the Knights is that this success doesn't feel earned. It's just kind of happened. There's a difference in earning success after a time of building, molding, cultivating. There was work put into it. You're grateful from the time, the ups and downs, and all that went into it. I felt that as a Ducks fan. We got beaten down for a long while, but when they did succeed, when they did finally win it all, it made that all worth it. You realize how hard it is to win. You realize that hte saying of the Stanley Cup being the hardest trophy to win in sports, it's not just a saying. Not everybody gets to see their team get to that level.


None of that applies to the Knights. It's almost a "just add water" type of success. Everything they've done has worked. Everything they've done has turned right-side up. It's such a charmed existence that's gone way far and high into their fan's heads. It's not deserved or earned. It's just happened.

 

Call it sour grapes, call it whatever the hell you want, but to my mind and many others, the Golden Knights haven't earned their stripes in a league that, until now, basically demanded that you do.

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1 hour ago, tp49 said:

Nothing says spring like a Sharks playoff exit.

 

I hate to admit it but I'm enjoying Vegas' playoff run.  It's the only thing keeping me watching and following the playoffs thanks to the ineptitude of my own team.

 

If I understand this correctly and you're a Sharks fan, I have to ask, did you really think they were beating the Jets/Preds *and* Knights considering they needed a hot Evander Kane just to secure that awesome #3 seed in the Pacific? I'm not saying this to try and sound like some snarky fan with revisionist history but this team finished were they needed to. They were a playoff team, not a championship team and that whimper of a third proved it. I hope DeBoer is on the hot seat next season because he seems like the kind of coach who can't seem to exploit the best possible match-ups, like having Ryan in place of Martin from the start of the series, not Game 4 and onward. Maybe the savior known as Johnny Tavares can help us. 

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3 minutes ago, Still MIGHTY said:

 

Since you're not answering my question, I'll do you the courtesy of answering yours.

 

Because of the draft rules? Me, personally? No. The Mighty Ducks actually made better due with their expansion draft than others and were halfway decent. Made the playoffs in their third season, and have been one of the more successful teams in the league post-lockout.

 

My hate for the Knights is that this success doesn't feel earned. It's just kind of happened. There's a difference in earning success after a time of building, molding, cultivating. There was work put into it. You're grateful from the time, the ups and downs, and all that went into it. I felt that as a Ducks fan. We got beaten down for a long while, but when they did succeed, when they did finally win it all, it made that all worth it. You realize how hard it is to win. You realize that hte saying of the Stanley Cup being the hardest trophy to win in sports, it's not just a saying. Not everybody gets to see their team get to that level.


None of that applies to the Knights. It's almost a "just add water" type of success. Everything they've done has worked. Everything they've done has turned right-side up. It's such a charmed existence that's gone way far and high into their fan's heads. It's not deserved or earned. It's just happened.

 

Call it sour grapes, call it whatever the hell you want, but to my mind and many others, the Golden Knights haven't earned their stripes in a league that, until now, basically demanded that you do.

 

 

To answer your question, the draft rules were better than prior installments.  But I do also think they did a great job taking advantage of the rules and of teams trying to use the expansion draft as a bail out for bad contracts, etc.

 

To me, that is making it special.  Everything about this team is gone right and they are making all the right choices.  Plus they are playing a fun style of hockey, that I have quite enjoyed watching.  I had no reason to like the VGK, but I do.  After the Avs were eliminated, I found myself rooting for the VGK.

 

I normally always root for the Canadian teams, and if it ends up Jets vs Knights, I probably will still root for the Jets.  But that doesnt mean I can't enjoy watching the VGK play.  

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Alex Houston said:

 

If I understand this correctly and you're a Sharks fan, I have to ask, did you really think they were beating the Jets/Preds *and* Knights considering they needed a hot Evander Kane just to secure that awesome #3 seed in the Pacific? I'm not saying this to try and sound like some snarky fan with revisionist history but this team finished were they needed to. They were a playoff team, not a championship team and that whimper of a third proved it. I hope DeBoer is on the hot seat next season because he seems like the kind of coach who can't seem to exploit the best possible match-ups, like having Ryan in place of Martin from the start of the series, not Game 4 and onward. Maybe the savior known as Johnny Tavares can help us. 

No, I'm not a Sharks fan.  I'm an Islanders fan.  One who hopes John Tavares stays put.

 

However, to answer your question, I did expect them to beat Vegas because I thought that Vegas would be "hungover" from their sweep of LA, the Sharks being a more experienced playoff team, and Marc-Ander Fleury's propensity to have a number of bad games in the playoffs.  While my third point did happen where Fleury gave up the number of goals I'd seen in the past, Vegas didn't come out in the second round with the hangover I expected.  I didn't expect San Jose to beat Nashville or Winnipeg, but I did have a reasonable expectation they'd beat Vegas.

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