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Rite of Spring 2018-“What happens in the playoffs stays in the playoffs”

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4 hours ago, JQK said:

No one was saying Vegas was a playoff team.
MOST people were saying Vegas was going to be the worst team in the league.
People didn't start crying "rigged" until the Knights failed to fade after a hot start.

 

I've never claimed it was rigged and I don't care what people were saying in October. A lot of experts thought the Capitals were going to miss the playoffs too. The proof in the present is that the league over-corrected for the mistakes they made in the last round of expansion and over-stacked the draft. 


But beyond that I was upset about the expansion draft rules when they were released and I felt like Vegas had a shot at competing this season so it's not like everybody was blindsided by this. 

 

 

4 hours ago, JQK said:

The expansion draft wasn't rigged.

 

 

Agreed because it wasn't rigged. It all happened out in the open. It was far more far favorable than previous expansion drafts. That's just the truth. 

 

4 hours ago, JQK said:

The expansion draft wasn't unfair.

 

 

Big disagree here. To the most recent group of expansion teams it most certainly was unfair. If they'd had the same terms as the last time expansion happened and they were still doing in the final then I'd be impressed, but they didn't so it's all been suspect to me ever since. 

 

4 hours ago, JQK said:

 

I'm sorry some team's fans are upset because their teams haven't smelled success in forever, and this brand new team is where they've never been, but that doesn't mean the system was rigged for them (or for Pittsburgh, or for Chicago, or for Detroit, or for anyone). This isn't the KHL, as much as some of you seem to want it SO BADLY to be.

 

Again, I don't see anybody claiming it was rigged. The problem is that even if accidental the league had too much influence in the competition of this season. 

 

4 hours ago, JQK said:


All this is, is Vegas getting lucky with a top-level goalie in Fleury (due to being pushed out in Pittsburgh in favor of Murray), and good scouting and GM work in picking up players the rest of the league's GM's felt were expendable, and the coach for getting the absolute most of of these guys.

 

 

What it is is teams saw VGK as a unique to unload salary for big contracts (Fluery and Neal) and then they landed a roster that is nothing but second liners thanks to the most generous expansion draft of all time, which means the lineup is spread out compared to their opponents who due to the crime of existing prior to this season had to play actual 3rd/4th liners and 3rd pair D, which allowed a couple VGK guys space to play above expectations. It's not mystical, they were simply given the depth that wins in today's NHL.

 

Give me a break on good scouting. That's a total myth. Most of their players were the no-brainer selection or the teams dictated who to take through trades. And Gerard Gallant is a fine hockey coach who got did dirty by Florida, but he's been handed a roster without a hole to coach around. I'm not that impressed. 

 

4 hours ago, JQK said:

 


There is no grand conspiracy. No one is out to get you.

 

It's not a conspiracy and nobody is claiming that. Your entire post was based on the false premise that people are upset because it was "rigged". Rigged implies purpose. No, I'm upset with the NHL because this was accidental. If they'd tried to rig it for Vegas it wouldn't have worked. I've said this since November - the league wanted to avoid another Thrashers situation and wildly over-corrected, which means one of their teams was unfairly assembled compared to their opponents. That's all. What I want is for people to stop treating this like a normal Cinderella run because it's not. If it was then I'd be on board, but I see what really happened and it's far less fun. 

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4 hours ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

 

I never saw them being this good. Some of the credit absolutely has to go to the GM, coach, and players for making the most out of their circumstances. Acting like the draft had little to nothing to do with it is idiocy.

 

Most of their key contributors are expansion draftees. I don't get denying that they may have been overly favorable with the draft, which makes their impending championship feel a little less legitimate to me. I can't not feel that way. 

 

4 hours ago, BeerGuyJordan said:

 

I'm not disgusted with the Knights, themselves. This success has been key to making the most of their two year head start over the NFL. I loathe what this run represents: the owners being greedy and offering expansion terms that I think were way too generous, especially in light of how much they comparatively hobbled the last four expansion franchises. I'm saying that as a fan of the first of those four to claw their way to the Final. I can only imagine how much more frustrating this must be for the other three fanbases, especially Columbus.

 

 

Yes, this exactly. That's all. The league did a lot to help the Knights right away that they didn't do for the last batch of expansion, probably because of the difficulties faced by the last round of expansion. So in a way it's almost like my team did all the work that these guys get to benefit from without really doing anything. I'm coming at them from a perfectly defensible position from my point of view. 

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3 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

I absolutely think this could be a negative in the long run.  One of the benefits expansion teams have is that fans will put up with losing for at least a few years.  You go to games because you're excited to have the team/league.  You go to be a part of if from the beginning. Heck, you even go to see opposing teams/players.  You pay dues. 

 

I don't think it matters whether they win or lose the finals.  These fans are conditioned to following a competitive team.  When the team drops eight of its first ten some year, IF the NHL gave them a more preferential expansion draft because of the high expansion fee, then they really needed to be less greedy and let this team build like any other expansion team.  IF this was about "not another Coyotes" then I'd argue it wasn't a good market in the first place.  If they have reason to believe the team won't be successful, then it shouldn't be created.

Why do the two reasons have to be mutually exclusive? I think that it's a combination of both.

 

The majority of sports teams aren't going to have a hardcore following, over their first decade. Fanbases take time to build. Some cities would take to a team right away, sure, but there are more circumstances where it's a formula of winning and running a good franchise.

 

Columbus is a great example of a great franchise that hasn't really had much on-ice success. They've still managed to grow a respectable fanbase, and that is to the credit of management. If they have a few years of deep playoff runs, I fully expect them to take off in a substantial way. 

 

Phoenix and Atlanta 2.0 are examples of what happens when you mismanage a team, and have little on-ice success to fall back on.

 

2 hours ago, McCarthy said:

What it is is teams saw VGK as a unique to unload salary for big contracts (Fluery and Neal) and then they landed a roster that is nothing but second liners thanks to the most generous expansion draft of all time,...

 

I get your point, but Neal wasn't a salary dump. Poile tried to make a deal, to go the 7F/3D route, and have them not take whichever of Ekholm/Ellis they left unprotected. McPhee apparently wanted too much for that deal.

 

The Preds opted to protect Jarnkrok, a younger player with improving numbers that they have locked in for five more seasons at $2 mil, before hitting RFA. Neal's numbers were on the decline, and he only had one more year at $5 mil before hitting UFA.

 

I'm sure salary played a factor, but it was the logical long-term move for a franchise looking to be a contender for years, not a salary dump.

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So what I gather from all of this is that this Knights run is fun and if you don't like it, you hate fun and hate sports.

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The best 2 words of any playoff happen tonight......Game Seven.

 

Homer opinion aside, i think the Lightning have this in a close one.  Caps played their A+ game Monday and laid alot on the line to play for seven.  The Lightning need to shore up their offense, but they have the potential.

 

 

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Tonight’s gonna be torture. I wonder what new ways the Caps will come up with to twist the knife on this fanbase. 

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3 hours ago, Crabcake47 said:

Tonight’s gonna be torture. I wonder what new ways the Caps will come up with to twist the knife on this fanbase. 

 

Oh, I hope they don't :censored: the bed. This team has to play hungry, aggressive, and be physically dominating; they're 60 minutes away from the mecca.

 

Play like they did in Game 6, and they should win; all things considered. Play like they did in Game 5...well...

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Compared to what’s going on in the NBA and CLE/GSW Part IV still looming.... I for one welcome our new Vegas overlords.

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On 5/21/2018 at 11:50 PM, the admiral said:

I disagree. A roster of six-hole hitters and third starters might be able to BS their way through an unusually weak division, but they wouldn't last in the postseason. One instance that comes to mind is the 2008 Cubs, who maybe weren't exactly the aforementioned, but lacked an honest-to-God ace (I think it was Dempster, Zambrano, and Lilly at the top of the rotation, all 2/3s at best) and had a lineup that surpassed what you'd expect on paper from those names at that time (Lee, Ramirez, Soriano, DeRosa, Theriot, a fresh-off-the-trash-heap Jim Edmonds). They played the Dodgers in the NLDS and went down in three games where they never looked like they were really there because uh oh, they couldn't beat up on crap anymore. I can assess that season much better ten years out, realizing that it wasn't randomness but a consequence of not having the dregs of the National League to gather wins against, but following a 97-win season with an NLDS sweep just killed my baseball fandom for years. Good thing that cold harsh reality will never have to happen to the "good" people of Las Vegas!

 

The NL Central was actually a strong division in 2008. The Dodgers if anything benefitted from a crap division 

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1 hour ago, goalieboy82 said:

for Lightning and Caps fans.

 

Better version imo:

 

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Tonight is a coronation, no matter what happens. Tonight is the coronation of the Vegas Golden Knights as your next NHL champions. 

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Also tonight is why I want next year’s thread to be called “watch as Crabcake slowly loses his sanity” or something like that. I’m basically gonna be live tweeting my mental and emotional demise. 

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?

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Ovechkin opens the scoring!

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My wife landed an order through the company she works for that is contingent on the Lightning winning tonight so now I have a very real financial interest in Tampa. Congratulations Capitals fans!

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1-0 Caps after 1. 

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Stop playing on your heels Washington, 1 goal isn't going to cut it!

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